What is "the holy grail"; is it a cup or a bloodline

AthlonSavage
reply to post by veteranhumanbeing

VHB
I suppose you are prepared to ask the same question of Mohammed, The Dali Lama, Jesus, Gandi and Confusious?

AthlonSavageYes but they have a name, a recognisable label. Who are you, another one of us no ones. If you happen to be a somebody or think you are a somebody then PM me, and I will tell you there if I think you name is worthy of making to the end of those you listed above.

I have a name. Its called Veteran Human Being. I am a somebody that is on this forum for a reason. I need not prove myself to you. You will never understand who I am and would be the least of personages to tell me if I am worthy of your indoctrination/recognition. Who exactly are you to judge me?

reply to post by vethumanbeing

Who exactly are you to judge me?

Vet...Human...Being....You are neither, your an Erin girl sent by grocery clerks to pick up the cheque.

AthlonSavage
reply to post by vethumanbeing

VHBWho exactly are you to judge me?

AthlonSavageVet...Human...Being....You are neither, your an Erin girl sent by grocery clerks to pick up the cheque.

You mean an "errand BOY" sent as a grocery clerk to pick up the check. This is a quote from 'Apocalypse Now' Martin Scorcese production: Marlon Brando as (Col. Kurtz) saying to Martin Sheen as (Capt. Willard) interpreted as YOU ARE JUST AN ERRAND BOY (to give me the bad news of my impending death). The whole exchange was about minimising Willards mission.

reply to post by vethumanbeing

Apologies to all 'Apocolypse Now' was actually a John Hughes production, when he found out it was not a comedy sent the script to Scorcese, when he found out it was not a Mobster movie, sent it to Francis Ford Coppola, when he found out it was about space travel, sent it to Stanley Cubrick. I think Coppola wound up making the movie.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


Well you do watch your movies don't you.

AthlonSavage
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Well you do watch your movies don't you.

I am living in one I designed for myself (not to ajdust prior Karma). If you think this life of yours is NOT a movie you are starring in as the protagonist you would be wrong.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


let me guess im an extra in your movie right?

reply to post by AthlonSavage

reply to post by vethumanbeing


Hahahhahhaha what in ???? did I just read 2 pages of?


On topic.....personally the idea of the grail being a cup seems a bit dumb to me. Why would someone stop and think, oh hey I need to keep this because he drank out of it. Doesn't make much sense but who knows maybe someone thought it would be cool to keep an ordinary everyday cup around. I would be more inclined to believe in a bloodline, although not one all dramatic as most make it out to be. Jesus being married would seem in line with the times. So sure there could be a bloodline still I just don't believe it is of any importance to the person or to anyone else other than being interesting. I don't see the line being special outside of namesake.

reply to post by drivers1492


I cant get a straight answer out of the vetHumanbeing, its like the person is a pole of a magnet that permanently repels from any sort of order.

drivers1492
reply to post by AthlonSavage

 

reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Hahahhahhaha what in ???? did I just read 2 pages of?

Pidder patter.

drivers1492On topic.....personally the idea of the grail being a cup seems a bit dumb to me. Why would someone stop and think, oh hey I need to keep this because he drank out of it. Doesn't make much sense but who knows maybe someone thought it would be cool to keep an ordinary everyday cup around. I would be more inclined to believe in a bloodline, although not one all dramatic as most make it out to be.

The actual physical cup was given to Joseph of Arimathea; medieval legend says it held unusual powers/regeneration of life. The term grail also means a desired or sought after objective. What is the objective ultimately; a quest in obvious metaphor for the identity of the blood line of Jesus as it held wine; or Christs Blood and he said "this is my blood you drink", as to the bread at the table "this is my body you eat".

drivers1492Jesus being married would seem in line with the times. So sure there could be a bloodline still I just don't believe it is of any importance to the person or to anyone else other than being interesting. I don't see the line being special outside of namesake.

Perhaps for you not; for Brigham Young University or the University of Arizona Genetics Departments it will be the holy grail of a bloodline found (one institution is Masonic in its foundation/formation and the other is Mormon). If Jesus and Mary Magdeline were married and had children (this is the precept). For Mormons the idea is to identify If the Mary/Jesus Davidian line exists today in the USA; because their belief system tells them Jesus lived here 700AD (as a latter day saint). This is a competition between the 2 institutions. The ancient Essenes as became freemasons/rosicrucions know where the cup is as it has been in their possession for centuries. The Mormons are trying to validate their myth as to Jesus having lived in the USA and guided them to Utah. Both looking for anomolies in DNA blood panel screens. Thanks for your comments drivers.

reply to post by vethumanbeing

The actual physical cup was given to Joseph of Arimathea; medieval legend says it held unusual powers/regeneration of life. The term grail also means a desired or sought after objective. What is the objective ultimately; a quest in obvious metaphor for the identity of the blood line of Jesus as it held wine; or Christs Blood and he said "this is my blood you drink", as to the bread at the table "this is my body you eat".

I'm familiar with the legends that sprung in later years. There is nothing in ancient literature that I am aware of to support the idea of the cup and Joseph though. I have always found it funny that the idea of a physical cup would hold some power simply because Jesus used it. One would think that there would be reference of some sort it this were actually the case. I suppose a supporting argument would be the story where a touched touched his clothing and was healed. But, if contact with him somehow makes an object magical(for lack of a better term) it would seem there would be all kinds of things on the earth with this power.

Perhaps for you not; for Brigham Young University or the University of Arizona Genetics Departments it will be the holy grail of a bloodline found (one institution is Masonic in its foundation/formation and the other is Mormon). If Jesus and Mary Magdeline were married and had children (this is the precept). For Mormons the idea is to identify If the Mary/Jesus Davidian line exists today in the USA; because their belief system tells them Jesus lived here 700AD (as a latter day saint). This is a competition between the 2 institutions. The ancient Essenes as became freemasons/rosicrucions know where the cup is as it has been in their possession for centuries. The Mormons are trying to validate their myth as to Jesus having lived in the USA and guided them to Utah. Both looking for anomolies in DNA blood panel screens.

Really don't have a comment on mormons other than personally I think Joseph Smith was either mad or self absorbed in his actions. What is your basis for the Essene statement?

reply to post by vethumanbeing

The Mormons are trying to validate their myth as to Jesus having lived in the USA and guided them to Utah.

Is this another dream of yours, like Jesus inventing the Coptic language?

The DNA research that the Mormons are (well, were, I think they've mostly given up on it,) conducting is in support of their claim that the lost tribe of Israel actually came to the New World, centuries before Christ was born. They don't claim that Jesus had offspring in America that they're trying to track down.

The lost tribe of Israel stuff came from the Book of Mormon, and every geneticist who has looked into it has dismissed it as nonsense. While they claim that it can be accounted for by the Native Americans wiping out the Israelites who were here, rather than integrating with them (as was once the claim,) most people view it as yet another piece of evidence that Joseph Smith just made the whole thing up.

Why is the Holy Grail so special? What about all the other cups he drank from throughout his life? There should be hundreds of Grails.

On a more serious note, I don't think the Grail is anything more than a cup that Jesus happened to drink from at the last supper, and it is probably smashed and forgotten among the millions of peices of pottery that have been found throughout history.

drivers1492
reply to post by vethumanbeing

drivers1492Really don't have a comment on mormons other than personally I think Joseph Smith was either mad or self absorbed in his actions. What is your basis for the Essene statement?

I dont disagree about Joseph Smith, ego driven or complete madness. As far the Essene proclimation I will have to quote text:

"The Essenes, with their Egyptian links, collaborated with John the Baptist to prepare the coming of the Christ, bringing together the two currents once again. after the Christ the two branches resumed their parallel routes, one of with produced Mohammed, another the great manifestation of the devine spirit." '"To the Templars, therefore, Melchisedek is one of the Key symbols of the Order of the temple. He is a father figure to the Essenes in the same way that Hiram Abiff is the father figure in the tradition of freemasonry." Ibid 'TheTemplar Tradition" pg 7 Gaitan Delaforge.

The Essenes preserved the message of a new covenant, that of the Eucharist U-ARE-CHRIST (the solar energy of the force of Christ descends to be an intermediary or force energy to be used; so that the knowingness or path of spiritual enlightenment can be acheived by the human.

ProfessorChaos
Why is the Holy Grail so special? What about all the other cups he drank from throughout his life? There should be hundreds of Grails.

You bring up/have a very good point here Prof.Chaos. This particular cup was symbolized as an architype, or myth to speak to a collective concsiousness. They influence cultural definitions. some are positive in bringing about a spiritual awakening. Not sure about this one (fence sitting on the whole organized religion thing) I feel as we were treated like children (of course this was 2000 years ago and perhaps we were then).

ProfessorChaosOn a more serious note, I don't think the Grail is anything more than a cup that Jesus happened to drink from at the last supper, and it is probably smashed and forgotten among the millions of peices of pottery that have been found throughout history.

There are so many traditions out there as its interpretion, was it a physical object? Most see it as a vessel of some type, for whatever reason it is a mythical receptical of something; is it the path of spiritual realization MAYBE and just and true (an ideaform) being carried around by Templar Knights? Personally in my path to knowledge I think there is another hidden under someones robes of concealment; and its the bloodline of Christ, that has been obsfucated in 10 other interpretations it could be representitive of (ON PURPOSE). Nice to meet you Professor and thankyou for your thoughtful reply.

adjensen
reply to post by vethumanbeing

adjensenThe DNA research that the Mormons are (well, were, I think they've mostly given up on it,) conducting is in support of their claim that the lost tribe of Israel actually came to the New World, centuries before Christ was born. They don't claim that Jesus had offspring in America that they're trying to track down.

Thats welcome news as as far as the University of Arizona (Il have to twitter the Genetics Dept) is concerned (WHEW). BYU has given up the good fight? Why would you think there was a lost tribe of Israel lived in the USA pre Christ; native americans speak of the great white father or was it a feather some confusion there apparently.

adjensenThe lost tribe of Israel stuff came from the Book of Mormon, and every geneticist who has looked into it has dismissed it as nonsense. While they claim that it can be accounted for by the Native Americans wiping out the Israelites who were here, rather than integrating with them (as was once the claim,) most people view it as yet another piece of evidence that Joseph Smith just made the whole thing up.

I completely agree. No Native American tribe Ive had contact with:
Pimas, Navaho, Hopi, Tohodam Nation (Papago changed their name), Chiricauhua Apache, Osage Souix, Cherokee, Yakquis, MAYA (my grandmother); has ever told me about the invasion of any semitic middle eastern tribes coming into their territories as a history or a mythology (oral tradition tales told to the children around the campfire tradition). Not sure what the great white father was though and still is part of the story telling.
Thankyou Adjensen; you might be onto something here. If only Mixtec was in my bloodline, only Scottish/English and Maya.

reply to post by vethumanbeing

Why would you think there was a lost tribe of Israel lived in the USA pre Christ

Why would I? I wouldn't, because it's ridiculous.

According to Smith, when he found and translated the plates, they told of a lost tribe of Israel that migrated to the Americas many hundreds of years ago. These first Americans built a flourishing and advanced civilization, but one branch, the Lamanites, killed their righteous relatives, the Nephites. For this and their rejection of Christ's teachings, God cursed the Lamanites with dark skin and a degraded existence. The story maintained that the Lamanites would not regain white skin and a civilized way of life until they accepted Christ's teachings. Thus, the heavenly beings instructed Smith not only to restore the true Christian church, but also to bring salvation to Native Americans. (Source)

That bit was their excuse to practice racism -- black people couldn't be full members of the church until 1979, because they were "cursed by God".

adjensen
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Why would you think there was a lost tribe of Israel lived in the USA pre Christ

Why would I? I wouldn't, because it's ridiculous.

According to Smith, when he found and translated the plates, they told of a lost tribe of Israel that migrated to the Americas many hundreds of years ago. These first Americans built a flourishing and advanced civilization, but one branch, the Lamanites, killed their righteous relatives, the Nephites. For this and their rejection of Christ's teachings, God cursed the Lamanites with dark skin and a degraded existence. The story maintained that the Lamanites would not regain white skin and a civilized way of life until they accepted Christ's teachings. Thus, the heavenly beings instructed Smith not only to restore the true Christian church, but also to bring salvation to Native Americans. (Source)

That bit was their excuse to practice racism -- black people couldn't be full members of the church until 1979, because they were "cursed by God".

Yikes, this sounds like serious mumbo-jumbo (not your comment but the elecutions of the Mormons). Lamanites (never heard of them) and white skin is obtained only by accepting Jesus. There are many tribes in MesoAmerica/brown skinned 'pagan savages' that were forced by the RCC Jesuit marines to accept Christian faith and they are just as brown as ever. How funny! The Dogon, the Christian Ethiopians that supposedly have the last remaining of 3 "Ark of the Covenants" within their caretaking have not turned white "YET". The 'RED' and 'YELLOW' peoples are still under the same curse I guess, the Mormons neglected to include them (Hebrews?Buddists/Hindus/Shintos/Confusionists/Islamics) along with the other polkadotted and plaid people from Great Britain (I suppose they hate everyone but the incarcerated insane FLDS leader Warren Jeffs.). Great comment

originally posted by: AthlonSavage
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

let me guess im an extra in your movie right?

You are an extra in YOUR OWN MOVIE (you just don't realize it).

originally posted by: AthlonSavage
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Well you do watch your movies don't you.

I have another idea about that. I need more 'stars' to star in my posts.