Purple Grass, Lime Green Sky. Discussing Politics on ATS.

reply to post by windword


That was possibly the single funniest thing I have ever seen so far LOL
Brilliant!

charles1952
Dear ATSers,

I'd really like someone to show that I'm wrong here. I usually enjoy discussing politics, but something rather odd seems to be happening. Let me offer an example. Someone might insist that our President is a centrist or a moderate. What can be done with a person holding such views? I'm willing to have a discussion, but I have no idea how to have one with such a person.

Certainly, one can be polite and ask that individual to explain his views, ask for definitions, etc., but what's the point? You can't discuss colors with someone insisting the grass is purple and the sky is lime green. Yet we have people insisting on that.

We have people who don't believe that Eric Holder should be censured and fired, and would be in any decent administration.

Some people claim that this is one of the more transparent administrations.

Some claim that the "problems" the administration finds itself in are either minor, politically motivated, or something that both sides do equally.

Some have written that Romney would do the same things as Obama, and would be a worse president.

Some claim that our President has some significant accomplishments besides ordering the SEALS to kill Bin Laden (After Valerie Jarrett told him twice not to.).

Some deny that he is a socialist (Or statist, or fascist, or whatever else the word is these days.)

Some deny that he is using the power of the government to go after his enemies in attempts to silence, intimidate, or harass them, even more so than Nixon.

Some think the economy is on track and coming along just fine.

Some think the Constitution is outdated and unworkable.

Some think our President hasn't broken laws while President.

There are so many of these "Purple grass, lime green sky" people on ATS that one spends a lot of time trying to show 2+2=4.
For some reason, it seems as though their existence is tied into the belief that Americans are too foolish to decide things for themselves and that the only proper thing is to have the wise and kind people in the federal government make up as many decisions and rules as possible. If someone disagrees with that, the person is attacked as being an evil, immoral, threat to society, who must be silenced in some way or another. Surprisingly, the liberals are less tolerant than the conservatives.

So much time is spent trying to describe the reality which they can't see, any serious conversation is put on hold. But it does get tedious at times, trying to explain that the grass is really green, and the sky is truly blue.

With respect,
Charles1952

Somwhere along the line with these people, someone pointed at grass and said "that color is called purple", etc. They were simply taught by other misinformed people.

reply to post by charles1952

There are so many of these "Purple grass, lime green sky" people on ATS that one spends a lot of time trying to show 2+2=4.

Since ATS is the context in which you speak, I'm taking this line and applying it to everything else said in your OP in terms of your perceived "so many".

Let me offer an example. Someone might insist that our President is a centrist or a moderate.

Regardless of whether Obama is Centrist, Right or Left. The number of people on ATS that posit such, number less than 10 at least as far as posters that could be bothered enough to argue about it.

We have people who don't believe that Eric Holder should be censured and fired, and would be in any decent administration.

Again less than 10.

Actually I'm just going to stop quoting... because the answer to all of this? You're getting upset and frustrated with less than 10 people when there's about 60 regular to semi-regular posters on political topics. As an exercise to test how valid your feeling is... why not go count out of 25ish pages in the SOTU thread, how many people you find supportive of Obama, and how many unsupportive. That thread should be a decent baseline.

reply to post by charles1952


I would argue that the best course of action is just to ignore these people. I get sucked into arguments with them, and I see that as a lack of restraint on my part. We truly should just gloss over their comments and continue on with a meaningful discussion. I have a very, VERY low tolerance for ignorance, and if I don't know facts about a subject, I don't spout my mouth off as if I do. I wish others would do the same.

And keep in mind that many who comment on the affairs the United States are not even citizens or living in this country, so that compounds the ignorance, often exponentially.

reply to post by charles1952


I think Michael Jackson said it best in his song; "Man In the Mirror."

After reading your OP, I'd say it appears that the lyrics were written especially for you.

Has it ever dawned on you that maybe, just maybe, it is you who is who is living in the false reality? Specifically, one derived from fear driven propaganda?

Because IMO and based on the fact that almost every premiss you posed in your OP is delusional, I'd say so.

reply to post by Kali74

why not go count out of 25ish pages in the SOTU thread, how many people you find supportive of Obama, and how many unsupportive. That thread should be a decent baseline.

LOL none that I saw, there was a time it would have been filled with counter arguments, guess there are no longer any arguments.

Our government is rotten to its core, left and right.

reply to post by charles1952


I think I see what you're saying here OP and it is a frustrating thing.

I'm actually seeing this in my enviro-science class this semester in that we've had 2 weeks of courses now and we're still on the basics of the Law of Conservation of Energy and the Laws of Thermodynamics. Basic basic basic stuff that grade school science classes SHOULD have established as absolutes in science, to the extent that word ever fits science.

Still..as they've explained, through trial and error they have discovered that if this isn't done to establish the basic laws of science that exist as laws, not opinions, the class often degenerates into debate on pure opinion where the science is thrown out the window to "being right" not "being correct".

Seems the same here... Right/Left/Center aren't entirely subjective terms to be defined as each person feels like defining it. If we all sat through basic political science courses, we'd all see the real world definitions to these words and understand they DO have proper and wildly improper usage.

As it is? ...it seems terms are fluid, language is subjective and everything is factual only in so far as someone else has heard a fact even exists as such. It really does turn some topics into a trial in patience as much as debate on the issues, eh?

Stormdancer777

why not go count out of 25ish pages in the SOTU thread, how many people you find supportive of Obama, and how many unsupportive. That thread should be a decent baseline.

LOL none that I saw, there was a time it would have been filled with counter arguments, guess there are no longer any arguments.

Our government is rotten to its core, left and right.

The main reason you've noticed a decline in the number of opposing arguments being offered up by progressives on this site is primarily due to the fact that we've grown tired of banging our heads up against a cement wall trying to convince the delusional right wingers that they are just that, delusional.

For the most part, those of us who support progressive initiatives have withdrawn from the conversations, choosing instead to just sit back and draw our entertainment from watching the right-wing "Circle-Jerk" currently underway here on ATS.

reply to post by Flatfish



The same thing happened during the Bush years same story different president.

Flatfish


For the most part, those of us who support progressive initiatives have withdrawn from the conversations, choosing instead to just sit back and draw our entertainment from watching the right-wing "Circle-Jerk" currently underway here on ATS.

Or, it could be that you and the others are seeing progressive policies in action, seeing the utter failure of them, and have been silent because you don't have a leg to stand on.

Stormdancer777
reply to post by Flatfish

 

The same thing happened during the Bush years same story different president.

Hardly!

Come talk to me about their similarities after President Obama lies us into a war, authorizes the use of torture and becomes "wanted," in nations across the globe, for crimes against humanity.

While I do admit that neither one is an "Angel," I would argue that there is a huge difference between the two. Almost like day & night.

reply to post by charles1952


So the people that agree with your position are intelligent and using logic and those that disagree are total morons.

That doesn't sound to arrogant does it?

Sorry, all your phony "with respect" sounds patronizing and insincere to me.

I respect those with the guts to express themselves honestly even if I disagree with them... than all your arrogant, condescending, sugar coated BS.

beezzer

Flatfish
For the most part, those of us who support progressive initiatives have withdrawn from the conversations, choosing instead to just sit back and draw our entertainment from watching the right-wing "Circle-Jerk" currently underway here on ATS.

Or, it could be that you and the others are seeing progressive policies in action, seeing the utter failure of them, and have been silent because you don't have a leg to stand on.

Hardly!

Actually, we've seen very few of our policies put in place, primarily due to the obstructionist tactics adopted by the GOP in a futile attempt to un-elect the POTUS and everything he stands for.

Now if you're talking about the utter failure of the Congress to accomplish anything other than naming a few post offices and voting 47 friggin times to repeal the ACA, yeah I saw that.

Not to worry though, because we're just getting started.

You know the old saying; "Lead, Follow, or Get The Hell Out Of The Way!"

Seeing how the GOP has chosen to neither lead or follow, (notice that obstruction is not a choice) maybe it's time they just got "The Hell Out Of The Way." I think that's what the POTUS was saying last night and it's about time!

Flatfish

Stormdancer777
reply to post by Flatfish

 

The same thing happened during the Bush years same story different president.

Hardly!

Come talk to me about their similarities after President Obama lies us into a war, authorizes the use of torture and becomes "wanted," in nations across the globe, for crimes against humanity.

While I do admit that neither one is an "Angel," I would argue that there is a huge difference between the two. Almost like day & night.

SEE!?

beezzer

Flatfish


For the most part, those of us who support progressive initiatives have withdrawn from the conversations, choosing instead to just sit back and draw our entertainment from watching the right-wing "Circle-Jerk" currently underway here on ATS.

Or, it could be that you and the others are seeing progressive policies in action, seeing the utter failure of them, and have been silent because you don't have a leg to stand on.

Hardly.

In fact sometimes I'll post something in a circle-jerk thread just to get a kick out of you guys.

I love opening up the latest "Obama is a socialist" thread and reading the newest conspiracy theory from the Twiright Zone

And when the latest article from CSN news or World net daily gets debunked just start screaming BENGHAZZIII!!!!

reply to post by muse7


Actually I stayed out of the fray during the Bush years, man there was some hate filled rhetoric, so let's not throw stones at glass houses.

Stormdancer777

Flatfish

Stormdancer777
reply to post by Flatfish

 

The same thing happened during the Bush years same story different president.

Hardly!

Come talk to me about their similarities after President Obama lies us into a war, authorizes the use of torture and becomes "wanted," in nations across the globe, for crimes against humanity.

While I do admit that neither one is an "Angel," I would argue that there is a huge difference between the two. Almost like day & night.

SEE!?

See what?

I never said that President Obama has done everything perfectly, much less to my satisfaction. But that hardly compares to what was done during the the Bush years, much less the validity of the complaints at the time.

While I agree that Obama isn't perfect, (and nobody is) he's a far cry from what we had last.

Ever heard the old saying; "Don't let perfect be the enemy of good?" It's worth thinking about.

Just because something doesn't work out perfectly as planned, doesn't mean that it isn't better than what you were doing prior to the change.

This comes to mind when I hear gun rights proponents oppose any and all efforts to tighten gun regulations. As soon as a city or state adopts some new regulations, it never fails that when the next shooting occurs, the gun rights activist will claim that the new regulations don't work because will still had a shooting.

True progress usually comes in small increments and it's seldom "perfect."

reply to post by Flatfish

he's a far cry from what we had last.

How can two people look at the same issues and draw different conclusions?

I think in some ways he is worse, just on different issues.

But in retrospect, Bush was a huge disappointment.

I didn't vote for him either.

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reply to post by olaru12

Dear olaru12,

I'm sorry to have been so unclear in my writing, and I'm especially sorry to have made you so upset. Let me try to explain.

So the people that agree with your position are intelligent and using logic and those that disagree are total morons.

Actually, I don't believe I said that. The misunderstanding may be in your use of the word "position." It is hard to convey exactly what is meant, but you made a good try.

It's not a "position" to say that the Obama recovery is the weakest in the last 70 years. It's remarking on a widely recognized fact. It's not a question of being a moron or not, it's a question of being able to recognize and accept facts whether or not they agree with one's opinions. Likewise, being able to see that this administration is one of the least transparent in modern history, does not reflect intelligence or the use of logic. All the person has to do is be aware of what the people who cover the White House are saying.

Sorry, all your phony "with respect" sounds patronizing and insincere to me.

I respect those with the guts to express themselves honestly even if I disagree with them... than all your arrogant, condescending, sugar coated BS.

You may call me patronizing, insincere, arrogant, and condescending. I don't agree, but I don't particularly mind. But you have gone beyond that. You have called me dishonest and phony. Please be aware that my reputation for honesty here is one I treasure. I have never lied on this site. I strongly resent those claims. Prove that I am dishonest and phony, or apologize for your offensive charge.

I have respect for you, and I'm hoping that your apology will prove me correct. As a human being, you are the third holiest and most significant thing on the planet. Of course I respect you. But I am only human myself and accusing me of lying is probably the quickest and easiest way too lose my respect for someone.

With respect,
Charles1952