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I had a grand idea.
page: 1share:
Ill never have the money for a patent so I might as well put this out there for good or ill.
My idea was a filter that could filter any kind of gas, liquid, solid, you name it. All you have to do is 3d print or lazer print holes in any type of surface that has very dense microns. You would lazer print these in the shape of the atoms of the type of particle you want to pass through, and no other particle can pass the barrier. What do you think? I have it sketched but like I said, ill never get a patent for it.
My idea was a filter that could filter any kind of gas, liquid, solid, you name it. All you have to do is 3d print or lazer print holes in any type of surface that has very dense microns. You would lazer print these in the shape of the atoms of the type of particle you want to pass through, and no other particle can pass the barrier. What do you think? I have it sketched but like I said, ill never get a patent for it.
reply to post by Luuke123
Like one of the toys a child plays with to learn shapes? Put the square in the square shaped hole and triangle in triangle shaped hole?
I think it would clog up unless you had a way to identify and guide the proper molecules threw... and if you had a way to identify and guide them then you wouldn't need a filter in the first place...
Unless I am misunderstanding you?
Like one of the toys a child plays with to learn shapes? Put the square in the square shaped hole and triangle in triangle shaped hole?
I think it would clog up unless you had a way to identify and guide the proper molecules threw... and if you had a way to identify and guide them then you wouldn't need a filter in the first place...
Unless I am misunderstanding you?
edit on 1/25/2014 by Bleeeeep because: (no reason given)
reply to post by Bleeeeep
Imagine a system consisting of 4 boxes. Each box is welded together end to end on the top, sides, and bottom, end to end. At the beginning of the first box there would be a mixture of gasses, say we have nitrogen, oxygen, hydrogen, and helium. We pump the mixture into the first box. Where the first box meets the second box we have cut the shape of the molecular or atomic structure of nitrogen, oxygen, and hydrogen. We push the psi up enough to push them through the holes we cut and the helium atoms bounce off. Then we repeat the process in the second box, removing nitrogen, then the third removing hydrogen and finally in the forth box we have only oxygen, the gas having been sorted into separate components. Does this make sense?
EDIT: the material the boxes were made out of would have to be extremely dense.
Imagine a system consisting of 4 boxes. Each box is welded together end to end on the top, sides, and bottom, end to end. At the beginning of the first box there would be a mixture of gasses, say we have nitrogen, oxygen, hydrogen, and helium. We pump the mixture into the first box. Where the first box meets the second box we have cut the shape of the molecular or atomic structure of nitrogen, oxygen, and hydrogen. We push the psi up enough to push them through the holes we cut and the helium atoms bounce off. Then we repeat the process in the second box, removing nitrogen, then the third removing hydrogen and finally in the forth box we have only oxygen, the gas having been sorted into separate components. Does this make sense?
EDIT: the material the boxes were made out of would have to be extremely dense.
edit on 25-1-2014 by Luuke123 because: (no reason
given)
reply to post by Luuke123
3d printing resolution is too low. Laser printing is probably also too low.
I think you forgot to take size into consideration. Even if there was a way, any molecule smaller that the printed hole would still get through.
3d printing resolution is too low. Laser printing is probably also too low.
I think you forgot to take size into consideration. Even if there was a way, any molecule smaller that the printed hole would still get through.
edit on 25-1-2014 by daskakik because: (no reason given)
reply to post by daskakik
That is why we move the process around a bit, making the smallest atom fit through the final wall in the final box.
We can also add more or less boxes, have you heard of IBM moving single atoms to create a film? We can achieve this if we can move an atom. All we need is "scientists"
That is why we move the process around a bit, making the smallest atom fit through the final wall in the final box.
We can also add more or less boxes, have you heard of IBM moving single atoms to create a film? We can achieve this if we can move an atom. All we need is "scientists"
edit on 25-1-2014 by Luuke123 because: (no reason given)
edit on 25-1-2014 by Luuke123 because: (no reason given)
Luuke123
reply to post by daskakik
That is why we move the process around a bit, making the smallest atom fit through the final wall in the final box.
Multiple filters will work to a point but you might get stuck with similar sized molecules between the "coarse filter" and the "fine filter".
We can also add more or less boxes, have you heard of IBM moving single atoms to create a film? We can achieve this if we can move an atom. All we need is "scientists"
I'm pretty sure they started off with a pure element and just found a way to move the atoms around. Not really the same thing as your molecular filter.
I think Lockheed Martin has You beat.
Source
In addition to desalination, the Perforene membrane can be tailored to other applications, including capturing minerals, through the selection of the size of hole placed in the material to filter or capture a specific size particle of interest. Lockheed Martin has also been developing processes that will allow the material to be produced at scale.
Source
reply to post by SynchronousSnake
At that scale, the sheer amount of ions and isotopes seems like it would almost instantly clog the filter.
But considering who it is who has claimed it, I guess it must be feasible...
I guess I was wrong OP.
At that scale, the sheer amount of ions and isotopes seems like it would almost instantly clog the filter.
But considering who it is who has claimed it, I guess it must be feasible...
I guess I was wrong OP.
Luuke123
reply to post by Bleeeeep
Imagine a system consisting of 4 boxes. Each box is welded together end to end on the top, sides, and bottom, end to end. At the beginning of the first box there would be a mixture of gasses, say we have nitrogen, oxygen, hydrogen, and helium. We pump the mixture into the first box. Where the first box meets the second box we have cut the shape of the molecular or atomic structure of nitrogen, oxygen, and hydrogen. We push the psi up enough to push them through the holes we cut and the helium atoms bounce off. Then we repeat the process in the second box, removing nitrogen, then the third removing hydrogen and finally in the forth box we have only oxygen, the gas having been sorted into separate components. Does this make sense?
In molecule level this works quite well. It is called membrane. It is widely used in food industry to produce nitrogen and even in diving to produce oxygen (nitrox diving gas). Water purifiers separate water from contaminations up to virus level.
Actually, you may not be far off in your thinking. I bet something like this could work. It would require some special inks. Cyanide can be
neutralized or captured and so can flourine gasses. Even hydrogen cyanide gas can be denatured.
Or you could just breath through a cigarette.
Or you could just breath through a cigarette.
edit on 25-1-2014 by rickymouse because: (no reason given)
reply to post by Luuke123
This already exists, In fact a filter pretty much exactly as you said is in a thread about a tankless respirator for diving.
I'm sorry I have to dash to work or I would link the thread.
I think it's called the Triton Respirator.
This already exists, In fact a filter pretty much exactly as you said is in a thread about a tankless respirator for diving.
I'm sorry I have to dash to work or I would link the thread.
I think it's called the Triton Respirator.
reply to post by Bleeeeep
Normal filtering does clog filters this fine. These type of filters (like reverse osmosis) use crossflow filtration and usually have at least a couple of stages before to prevent this.
These and the Lockheed take on them are not like what the OP described. The former can't seperate molecules of similar size and the OP's would have the target molecules and those that are slightly smaller but still larger than the pore size of the final filter mixed up with them.
Normal filtering does clog filters this fine. These type of filters (like reverse osmosis) use crossflow filtration and usually have at least a couple of stages before to prevent this.
These and the Lockheed take on them are not like what the OP described. The former can't seperate molecules of similar size and the OP's would have the target molecules and those that are slightly smaller but still larger than the pore size of the final filter mixed up with them.
edit on 25-1-2014 by daskakik because: (no reason given)
Here is a problem it could address....
Source
Is this a new phenomenon, the finding of pharmaceuticals in public water supplies?
No. Low levels of pharmaceuticals in the water supply have been a concern for a decade or longer, says Sarah Janssen, MD, PHD, MPH, a science fellow at the Natural Resources Defense Council, an environmental action group.
"Ever since the late 1990s, the science community has recognized that pharmaceuticals, especially oral contraceptives, are found in sewage water and are potentially contaminating drinking water," Janssen tells WebMD.
Concern among scientists increased when fish in the Potomac River and elsewhere were found to have both male and female characteristics when exposed to estrogen-like substances, she says. For instance, some fish had both testes and an ovary, she says.
Scientists starting looking at the effects of oral contraceptives first, she says. "Now analyses have expanded to look at other drugs," Janssen says.
Technology has made this research easier, says Suzanne Rudzinski, deputy director for science and technology in the Office of Water at the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. "Analytical methods have gotten better and we are able to detect lower levels than ever before."
Source
reply to post by Hijinx
Aye it is, that is the reason i put this out there because they came up with it after i did so i figured id put the process out for everyone to know.
Aye it is, that is the reason i put this out there because they came up with it after i did so i figured id put the process out for everyone to know.
reply to post by Kashai
It could also filter pollution from air, as in my original sketch the molecules used were pollutants such as methane and C02.
It could also filter pollution from air, as in my original sketch the molecules used were pollutants such as methane and C02.
reply to post by Luuke123
Hate being that guy but, what process?
You can't 3d print or laser holes small enough to filter out things like methane. UV lasers are hundreds of nm in wavelength and their wavelength is the lower limit of their beam diameter.
The smallest hole made with a laser, using a big complicated x-ray laser, was 4.3nm. Methane is .4nm (1 angstrom = 0.1nm) in diameter. It would zip right through that hole and there is no way your going to draw the outline of a molecule with something that wide.
Hate being that guy but, what process?
You can't 3d print or laser holes small enough to filter out things like methane. UV lasers are hundreds of nm in wavelength and their wavelength is the lower limit of their beam diameter.
The smallest hole made with a laser, using a big complicated x-ray laser, was 4.3nm. Methane is .4nm (1 angstrom = 0.1nm) in diameter. It would zip right through that hole and there is no way your going to draw the outline of a molecule with something that wide.
except the shapes of molecules are 3 dimensional typically, so the basic shape to be sure to get a filtering of would basically just need to be
circles cut into the filter of approximately the static potential size. Bad news though if you do this since the pressure drop across such a filter is
pretty enormous. You would have to work pretty damn hard to suck air through that, O2 and N2 mainly... which are of (on the grand scheme of things the
same size as say... cyanide.
This really is not a new idea, government funded or not, nor do I really believe the plea of 'I thought of it first' I am pretty sure we have had gas masks which work since 1914 (at least) which work as particulate filters and chemical reactors.
If you want a truly revolutionary idea you need to invent a chemical diode like material, that allows passage of some chemicals but not others, and in only one direction.... Nearest we have thus far is Graphene, which has weird and wonderful properties.
This really is not a new idea, government funded or not, nor do I really believe the plea of 'I thought of it first' I am pretty sure we have had gas masks which work since 1914 (at least) which work as particulate filters and chemical reactors.
If you want a truly revolutionary idea you need to invent a chemical diode like material, that allows passage of some chemicals but not others, and in only one direction.... Nearest we have thus far is Graphene, which has weird and wonderful properties.
reply to post by SynchronousSnake
I was thinking along the same lines as you Synch.
This is similar to what goes on in a Hydrogen fuel cell...isn't it?
I was thinking along the same lines as you Synch.
This is similar to what goes on in a Hydrogen fuel cell...isn't it?
Luuke123
reply to post by Kashai
It could also filter pollution from air, as in my original sketch the molecules used were pollutants such as methane and C02.
Might make a handy respirator filter.