Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

reply to post by The GUT



Entanglement, you solved the riddle already...!!!




Good game

reply to post by The GUT

Vallee communes with channelers? Maybe I misunderstand?

It was a presumption to explain the secrecy on his part. You can't mention UFO's to religious people or vice versa.

We're so predisposed with our "beliefs".

Good thing you were inclusive enough to include yourself with, "We're.

Of course. I'm a fence sitter. I believe in aspects of both.

I call "them" God's gardeners. The ultimate Johnny Appleseed, traveling by interstellar ark, terra forming habitable worlds, building greenhouses and trees of life. That sort of thing. My vision of that ark has it stuffed with seeds, eggs and cryo embryos…

how else do you start a whole new world garden?

RedCairo

This is why in self-development of that art, much like in some occult studies practices, you have to decide what you want your belief system to be and what you want to "matter" to you and focus obsessively on that and on nothing else. So for example it doesn't matter how good, great, amazing, fascinating, or correct something is; it matters whether it matches the feedback for the science trial you're doing. That's completely different. Working with the police, it doesn't matter as much what is objectively accurate; it matters what might 'spark' an idea or intuition in the officers using the data or "be useful" -- even if your data is somewhat wrong, they may find the answer from it. You're viewing the target but you're doing it with the carrier wave of viewing the needs of the people implementing your data.

What if "what you want to 'matter' to you" is seeing the truth? What if what "matters" most to the person doing the remote viewing is being certain of what they 'see'?

I have a rabid disinclination towards delusion (most particularly the 'self' kind )…not that I think people who can 'do' that sort of thing are in any way subject to delusion or illusion, just that I wonder if a person being 'obsessed' with only 'viewing' in specificity would make remote viewing unlearnable for them?
(especially if the person had never (in their whole 50 yrs,) experienced anything at all paranormal)

P.S. Forgive my playing the know-it-all, but: Lewis Carroll wrote Alice in Wonderland, C.S. Lewis was "The Narnia Chronicles"

Willtell
Vallee no doubt is more than just one opining on this topic as I keep emphasizing that this guy IS AN INSIDER.

Fair enough. I promised to post this earlier in the thread, so here it is. It's from Bill Moore, so we have to take it with a grain of salt, but it is information that deserves to be included in the mix.

I recently suggested somewhere on the boards that a rereading of Messengers of Deception was a worthwhile and timely endeavor in light of all the various stuff that has been revealed, written, and researched about the matters discussed here in the intervening years.

So, I was rather surprised when ATS member and researcher CardDown sent me the text of an email from Bill Moore to Saucer Smear circa 2000 that also suggested a careful rereading of Vallee's Messengers of Deception. The letter we are gonna take a look at casts aspersions on Dr. Vallee and throws a ball in his court.

NOTE: Item #2 below was one paragraph in the original, but I have broken it into 3 for easier perusal:

Saucer Smear Volume 47, No. 7 August 10th, 2000

Former ufologist WILLIAM ("Bill") MOORE writes:

"Several quick comments, which you may publish if you wish:

1. "Rick Doty is either mistaken or misinformed when he says I 'was paid' for such services
as may have been rendered to AFOSI et al., in the early 1980s. While it is true that
money was offered on several occasions, I never once accepted a penny of it. Therefore
I can say with a clear conscience that everything and anything I might have done in this
regard was entirely out of my own pocket.

2. "Regarding the Bennewitz Affair in general - two things which have never come
to light and which might prove most interesting to ufoology are the roles played
by doctors J. Allen Hynek and Jacques Vallee. It is not generally known that
Dr. James Harder was involved (at least early on, although perhaps not later).

I personally know that Hynek was still under contract as a USAF consultant at
the time, and Vallee had very close ties with the CIA and others (although what
his obligations to them may have been, I do not know). For those still hoping
to uncover some hidden treasure in this whole mess, here is a good place to
begin.

Many of Bennewitz's bizarre views on abductions seem to have come
to him as a result of Harder's involvement. Hynek's hitherto unknown forte
had to do with providing Bennewitz a carefully crafted means of 'decoding' the
supposed 'alien' transmissions he was intercepting. As for Vallee, numerous clues
pertaining to his particular specialty can be gleaned by a careful rereading of his
book 'Messengers of Deception'...

web.archive.org...://www.martiansgohome.com/smear/v47/ss000810.htm

The rest of that letter can be found at the link. Since Harder is mentioned and has been linked by some researchers with the CIA and ufological disinformation as well as being "thrust" at Betty and Barney Hill, I'll include some background on him as well.

Dr. Harder was perhaps best known as a prominent UFO researcher who has studied the subject for over 50 years, first becoming interested in 1952. He was Director of Research for the Aerial Phenomena Research Organization (APRO) from 1969-1982. APRO was one of the first civilian organizations to study the UFO phenomenon. When the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Science and Astronautics held hearings on UFOs in 1968, he was one of six scientists asked to testify on UFOs before the committee. In a 1998 interview, Harder said the subject was generally treated with disdain by the scientific community, but he was still one of about 300 academics who were actively investigating the phenomenon.

Harder was the primary investigator on a number of classical UFO cases, mainly related to alien abductions, including the 1973 Pascagoula Abduction and the 1975 Travis Walton case. He also took over the Betty and Barney Hill abduction investigation and continued it for many years. According to Harder, in about 95% of abduction cases he's studied, abductees report the encounter as positive, benevolent, and/or enlightening. He also investigated the claims of legendary CIA remote viewer Pat Price (who allegedly died under suspicious circumstances in 1975). Based on his remote viewing, Price believed aliens had underground bases at four locations on Earth.

en.wikipedia.org...

Link to Dr. Harder's statement at the 1968 UFO SYMPOSIUM AT THE US CONGRESS

Willtell
It’s not hard to deduce that Vallee wants to mess around with whatever the visitors are doing.

It may be that the Gov did perform a kind of Vallee type intrusion into the “feedback loop” The MIB actions and the disinformation activities are two examples of this

Consequently they may have been contacted by the alien intelligence in some way since those operations: the aliens said to them in no uncertain terms: BACK THE ___ OFF!

So they have since backed off and taken a passive stance in respect to the phenomenon, i.e. the Gov lack of interest in formal investigations of this matter.

This strikes me as a possibility, just given that Vallee hasn't written a word 'of conjecture' on the subject for…two decades now?

Add to that the fairly abrupt disbanding of NIDS…

and…that Bigelow Aerospace isn't doing any research remotely related to this topic - just nuts and bolts space 'stuff' as far as I've been able to find - despite the fact that the FAA tells it's pilots to report all UFO sightings to Bigelow!! (I think that's still the case?)

lostgirl

This strikes me as a possibility, just given that Vallee hasn't written a word on the subject for…two decades now?

Well for the record, he's written this.

www.amazon.com...

It's mostly a chronology but he did actually write more than a single word.

reply to post by The GUT


Outstanding GUT.

Often, I go on intuition. Not always, I rely on research I’ve long forgotten as well, just knowing from experience and from study how they operate. But this confirms a lot of my conclusions.

As for Moore, well even he may be accurate here, particularly if he has no apparent interest in what he describes.

Though, he may want some of the heat off of himself.

But I do buy this

I will be glad to peruse this info

reply to post by lostgirl


It is an empty period in UFOlogy somewhat, indeed, perhaps a foreunner of some kind of big explosion of information just around the corner.

Willtell
reply to post by lostgirl

 

It is an empty period in UFOlogy somewhat, indeed, perhaps a foreunner of some kind of big explosion of information just around the corner.

The explosion of information is already here, this is it, it's happening.

GUT, I think this sentence from the letter you posted could form the nucleus of a whole new thread: "Hynek's hitherto unknown forte had to do with providing Bennewitz a carefully crafted means of 'decoding' the supposed 'alien' transmissions he was intercepting."

Autograf
GUT, I think this sentence from the letter you posted could form the nucleus of a whole new thread: "Hynek's hitherto unknown forte had to do with providing Bennewitz a carefully crafted means of 'decoding' the supposed 'alien' transmissions he was intercepting."

I know, I know...it's so intriguing and for some reason I lean towards it being true. But HOW to investigate/prove it?! I mean, I'm still rather fond of Hynek, but I'm more than willing to follow the truth wherever it leads.

On small bit: Vallee has stated that Hynek was rather meek when it came to military authority.

reply to RedCairo

I think I agree, except that I think for nearly a century we've had a whole second layer of UFO (and 'contactee') phenomena which represents a more terrestrial force, probably. And that "eons long" ufo-related set of stuff may still be from a lot of different sources.

I personally think the biggest danger is that we keep even phrasing this as if it is a THING. As if there is one source or intent or group involved.

Agreed! In fact, I think this is a huge part of the puzzle. I think contactees are an integral piece of the Control System. It seems that these beings usually cannot interact with the physical world and need human agents (willing or un-willing) in order to do so and I think this has been going on since the beginning.

I do not think there is a single source or intent or group involved. I think there are multiple factions within factions with varying goals and agendas. Having said that, it does seem that there are two main generalized goals: evolution and stagnation. It may be that these beings are subjective interpretations of non-personal, abstract forces. What would gravity look like if it were a being? Is gravity evil for making me fall and crack my head? Is gravity good for keeping me from hurtling off into space? Electricity kills and brings life. Perhaps these forces drive our evolution?

Yes, a magician would be more aware of these currents and ride them to hir advantage. (I never meant to imply "command". I was a Taoist before a magician and I still am. Wu wei, baby!)

Now I figure anybody who wants to tear open any account I have that is esoteric has plenty of ammo; I have technically been associated with channelers, mystics, ceremonial magick, and intelligence people. Good god, I should be locked in a closet at this point, don't believe anything you hear is what I'd be thinking of myself, objectively... but all of those associations came because I was attempting to understand my own experience, trying to find someone, anyone and anything, who had some clue what the hell was going on in my mind and body. I was a little stupid sometimes, people acted like they knew everything, and they seemed familiar with a lot of stuff that was totally new and mindblowing to me, and they had official terms and labels, and it made my eyes wide and my brain empty apparently, I was like "wow, they know everything!" So in the end, I spent a lot of time and then basically had to go through de-indoctrinating myself from the crap that other people tried to stuff into me, because I was so genuinely interested, and so unparanoid, that I was pretty gullible in some respects. You might say it is much like the inorganics, they train you to be one of them and then you have to escape, and barely, when they feel you turn on them because you've realized it was a labrinthian trap all along. Hmmn, actually a lot like that...

I love this, thank you for sharing! I really resonate with it because the reason I am here doing what I'm doing has been the result of trying to figure out what the hell is going on with me. I've had a series of strange occurrences since I was about 6 years old. Unfortunately/thankfully, I was too young then and still in an area bereft of occult fraternities and covens, so I've done most of my learning from books and of course personal experiences. Although I have been heckled in various forums and chat rooms for not being "down" with some school of magicks or whathaveyew.

Has the control system theory been tested? I think so. All these alien channelers seem to be getting the same messages. Is it because that's what they want to hear? Why is Ashtar in The Sacred Book of Abra-melin the Mage? WHy do I have such a hard time organizing my thought here on ATS?
Is that latter question part of the conspiracy? :-)

Well, I do feel more lucid now that I'm in my Faraday cage.

also: I'm planning on attempting to make contact with intelligences from Sirius this summer. Does anyone have a radionics device I can borrow?

A bit off topic

I could respect Valles ideas BUT they are not anything unique or new. Though what I have read of him is very entertaining and informative.

By not novel I mean…what have human beings not messed up?

From religion, where they ALWAYS end up twisting and distorting the original teachings of ALL the great religious masters

To science, where they get this great tool and use it to create the monstrosity of the atomic and nuclear bombs.

To psychology, where they institute programs of psychological destruction on myriads of innocent people.

Frankly, that’s my issue with men like him and a Dawkins type guy as well, for instance, where they never take into consideration the simple truth that the original religious message gave us: that there is something WRONG with humankind. Something very corruptible about our nature. I think we call it evil!

So what could be expected that human beings do with Alienology and UFOlogy?

Willtell
So what could be expected that human beings do with Alienology and UFOlogy?

A lot of good points. However, if we assume "they" exist, what's not to say that some are "good" and some are "bad?" The literature and accounts suggest that VERY thing, no? If they exist, they apparently have great powers of influence and, like us, seem to run the gamut of character and intention.

So instead of grouping them all as some cosmic savior of man, maybe we should be discriminating and not lump all as the same?

reply to post by Willtell

Something very corruptible about our nature. I think we call it evil!

In for a penny, in for a pound.

Have you heard the onion peeling analogy in spirituality/mysticism?
Basically when you meditate or do 'inquiry' /'discrimination' or so-called 'neti neti'
(translated not this! not this!) you will over time 'find yourself'. Then as you go 'deeper'
you will discover you were wrong about your fundamental nature. You might do this
10,000 times over a lifetime, if you are sincere. In the end, if you are honest, most
people will determine either that they don't exist at all (sometimes getting depressed
and committing suicide) or come to the other point of view, that they are 'everything'.
This is what varous advaitists and new agers come to believe. More religous folks and
some new agers will think that they have found the 'soul', the 'spirit' or if you
are hooked on sanskrit the 'atman' or 'jiva'.

Now, unlike my usual obnoxious self, I'm not going to proclaim what the right answer is.

The 'trick here' is that whatever you finally decide to be true, is generally becuase you
are too tired to look any more, and/or for whatever reason (culture, friends, family,
or 'the unseen') you will then usually 'stick' to this verison of 'your true self' and fight
and die for it..maybe even kill for it (yourself, your happiness, or maybe even
obnoxious shamans for example).

But the truth? It's the exact same as the Valle control system.. as 'ufo sightings', etc.
If you THINK that you have a soul or a spirit or a 'higher self' then you in conjunction
with the 'universe' will build such a thing.. and then (and I beleive the Buddha would
agree) then 'this creation' will feel compelled to 'reincarnate' to maintain itself.. and
then you are as they say 'caught in samsara'. (the wheel of life and death).

Only it's not actually 'you'. Now I know, to my own satisfaction what humans are..
but rather than be obnoxious and bring it up in an off topic manner to this thread, I won't.

But my point here, is that everything to do wtih humans.. from 'souls' to 'control loops'
to 'ufo's' are artifically constructed things, that are a joint effort of varous parties, some
human and some not so human.

Now here is the 64,000,000 clincher here.. that is a retort to your statement.
I say that humans and the 'field' and what not are seldom 'evil'. The problem
is that most humans do not have a stable 'center'.. they are universasl receivers
that can become anything.. depending on what thoughts, and energies they allow
to manifest in their body.. it's exactly like Carlos Castenada says.. move the 'assemblage
point' (the receiver dial on your body-TV) and different energies will flood into you..
if 'kind energies' flood in.. 'you' will be 'kind'. If 'nasty' energies flood into 'you' will be
nasty.

Now it's slightly mysterious 'who adjusts that dial'. And that is in fact part of our
discussion in this thread.

But in any case.. humans, in my observation are not now, nor ever have been 'broken'
or 'evil'. A 'good human' chooses to be an ever changing thing like the Buddha says..
with no actual core.. soul or spirit or whatever.. and to pretend that they are one
thing.. an 'evil human' chooses to be an ever changing thing like the Buddha says
with no actual core.. soul or spirit or whatever.. and they pretend that they are
one thing.

You can probably guess what to do if you want to become so-called 'enlightened'..
or a trickster or to gain 'shamanic powers'... it has to do with the 'dial' of course.

Once you understand these observations about humans.. the whole trickster thing
becomes framed completely differently, in my opinion. It's no longer mysterious
in the same way.. it's simply a natural part of being 'human' and 'humans' come
in myriad forms due to what enters the mixing bowl and where that 'dial' is set.

I hope this response was helpful and more in line with the type of response that might be useful
to this thread.

KPB

The GUT

Willtell
So what could be expected that human beings do with Alienology and UFOlogy?

A lot of good points. However, if we assume "they" exist, what's not to say that some are "good" and some are "bad?" The literature and accounts suggest that VERY thing, no? If they exist, they apparently have great powers of influence and, like us, seem to run the gamut of character and intention.

Anthropomorphising "the others" with human traits won't work. They don't cotton to no judeo/xian BS.

olaru12
Anthropomorphising "the others" with human traits won't work. They don't cotton to no judeo/xian BS.

That comment is the only BS I see for more than one reason in my opinion. Firstly because those traits are identified by most all conscious humans regardless of philosophy/spirituality.

Secondly, how the hell would you know that these "others" are so different that they are somehow immune or above what we might term the golden rule? I'd say that any being without respect for other forms of "I think therfore I am" consciousness is inferior.

Tell us again how you know your statement to be true?

The GUT

olaru12
Anthropomorphising "the others" with human traits won't work. They don't cotton to no judeo/xian BS.

That comment is the only BS I see for more than one reason in my opinion. Firstly because those traits are identified by most all conscious humans regardless of philosophy/spirituality.

Secondly, how the hell would you know that these "others" are so different that they are somehow immune or above what we might term the golden rule? I'd say that any being without respect for other forms of consciousness is inferior.

Tell us again how you know your statement to be true?

I'm forbidden by the T&C to discuss it but try this....en.wikipedia.org...


www.nationalgeographic.com...


poo poo it all you want.........and how in the hell do you know the rule is golden?

olaru12
I'm forbidden by the T&C to discuss it but try this....en.wikipedia.org...

poo poo it all you want.........

If that's your basis for perceived cosmic knowledge, then you're operating on one cylinder. Been there. Enjoyed it. Can it be helpful? Yeah, I guess. Is it the undisputed pinnacle of truth? Hardly.

olaru12
.........and how in the hell do you know the rule is golden?

Because if someone slapped you around hard enough you would be screaming, whining, and begging for mercy? Think about it.

The GUT

olaru12
.........and how in the hell do you know the rule is golden?

Because if someone slapped you around hard enough you would be screaming, whining, and begging for mercy? Think about it.

edit on 27-1-2014 by The GUT because: (no reason given)

Would it be possible to get a nice sound spanking instead?