While wearing a cam, cop shoots man 5 times.

n00bUK
Are you #ing kidding me? FIVE times? He shot the suicidal boy five times pretty much in front of his own mother, what the hell have I just seen

Why couldn't the officer have wounded him, instead of shooting him 5 times at near about's point blank rage (?) I understand the situation is frightening for the officer, but shooting him five times is just ridiculous.

Poor woman, imagine this happening to you, she clearly rang the police because she was worried about her son hurting him self. Then the police come and kill him. Absolutely awful

I agree with you n00bUK.I'm sure the woman called the cops to keep the victim from suicide NOT realizing what would happen.5 shots are rather excessive in that situation but then he wasn't coming at me with the knife,ya know?

I have to wonder if this cop really had to shoot this guy as many times as he did. It seemed overkill to me. I just don't know why these cops have to shoot to kill in every situation. They already knew the guy was suicidal. I don't know much about guns, but would it be that difficult to shoot the guy in the leg? At least he could have waited until back-up arrived and possibly disarmed the guy.

Ouuupssss

Must have been an accident...

I am sure the cop aimed at the knife then the hand then the other hand then the leg and then the othet leg.

He must have displaced the shots after being in danger.

After all the man was in his house and the endangered cop walked in. I am pretty zure the policeman was in danger he could not avoid. Lucky he was not alone or mr polite would have been shaking more in fear and maybe the resident would have gotten away by incopetent shooting.

I am convinced this was the only posible resolution.
This is why we are alowed to see. After all this is normal.
NO? YES?

I'm usually pretty anti cop but in this instance the cop dud things correctly. I would have used a taser. But the cop had his pistol out instead. Maybe he didn't have a taser. Pepper spray won't be a good option cause people can charge you and shank you several times.

In this instance I don't think it was the cops fault. As for talking about only shooting once. Shoot a guy once and from what I've heard from people who have been there done that it usually doesn't immediately stop the guy especially if he's advancing on you with a knife from 10 feet away.

Shoot him in the leg? Are you kidding? Or have just not spent that much time with a pistol.

reply to post by Bassago


Yes, suicide by cop. Very sad for the poor kid AND the cop, I suspect.

I have encountered people who think that someone they love has been injured or killed- they are often quite hysterical. They don't ,in my experience, calmly say, ' you didn't shoot him ,did you?'

Something terribly wrong in the home of this dead kid, as in the homes of school shooters and others- IMO.

This is excessive.

If the guy had gun then I could understand what he did.

However, what happened to bean bag rounds and tasers?

For anyone that says those aren't enough to bring someone down, you are full of #. Especially with the clothes that skinny guy had on.



It's getting to where if you have a situation with a mentally ill person you can't call the cops because they will just execute them.

reply to post by gladtobehere

What a shame really.
Looks like a classic case of suicide by cop. looks like He was attempting to cut himself/suicide then the cops showed up and probably thought instead of cutting himself and running the risk of being saved before bleeding out that a few bullets would do a better job. I viewed the video a few times and it sure looks like he has his hand outstretched possibly pointing the knife at the officer

Seems like the officer panicked pretty bad. heavy breathing at the end. Terrible experience for all involved I'd imagine

reply to post by gladtobehere

I'm the first one to have a go at cops for using excessive force but on this occasion the officer did what he had to do. Given the confined space in the room and the fact the guy with the knife was totally non responsive to the officers instructions, what else was he to do? If the cop had a taser, he had no time to draw it. The male with the knife continued to advance and the cop fired until the threat was stopped, as he was trained to do.
With hindsight you could say that the cops could have backed off and surrounded the place but the disturbed males mother made it clear that the guy was self harming and was a threat to himself so prompting the officer to try and make contact and talk him down. From my point of view, the guy was clearly suicidal and made the cop do what he lacked the courage to do himself.
Also, to the members who are saying "why didn't the cop shoot him in the leg?", THAT DOESN'T WORK OUTSIDE GTA LAND!!!

reply to post by gladtobehere

Cops never shoot to wound or “slow down” a person. If they use their firearm its only to kill. Wounding folks is only in the movies.

As far as why he didn't use a taser. If the guy pulled a knife and was under 20 feet away (I think that's the distance), he is authorized to use lethal force. It has to do with how many feet an person can cross before the officer is able to draw his weapon and fire so many times.

OrphanApology
This is excessive.

It's getting to where if you have a situation with a mentally ill person you can't call the cops because they will just execute them.

A mentally ill person armed with a lethal weapon in a confined space who refused all attempts to engage in dialogue who advances towards an armed officer. Not an execution methinks but an act of self preservation on the part of the cop. Theres plenty of disgusting examples of cops using ridiculous levels of force but this isn't one of them.
Perhaps you would care to share what you think the cop should have done? So, weapon in hand, you announce yourself repeatedly at the door, get no response so gradually move further inside until you see a male armed with 2 knives and then you........???????????????

reply to post by AngryScotsman


One, there should be more than one cop. That's a basic. It's called backup.

If there is an armed person, you're supposed to wait for backup.

Second, the guy was suicidal and his weapon was a knife. He wasn't charging and he was obviously mental. A bean bag round would have brought him down without killing him, as would a taser.

As a general rule, the use of bean bag rounds are pretty effective in bringing down suspects who might be armed with knives or sticks. So are tasers. Both would be effective and usually non deadly ways of bring down a suspect who is armed with a knife.

So what should have he done? Shot him with a bean bag or a taser gun.

reply to post by OrphanApology


You are correct to say that bean bag rounds are an effective tool in stopping a threat, but you need a shotgun to fire the things (which the officer didn't have). The officer may or may not have had a taser (the vid doesn't show) but he entered the home with his gun in hand. By the time the guy with the knife starts coming at him, its WAY too late to start switching weapons. An aggressor can cover 25 feet in less than 2 seconds and by the looks of the video this guy was much closer than that.
Put simply, the officer was faced with a lethal threat and responded with lethal force. If I have any criticism for the cop, its only to say that headshots stop an aggressor much more certainly than torso hits, but cops get trained to shoot center mass so......

reply to post by AngryScotsman


He knew full well that the suspect had a knife and was suicidal, at the same time there wasn't urgency to him entering home. In fact he was even chatting with the woman at beginning.

So he knew the suspect had knife and was suicidal. This is negligence and excessive force.

Force in terms of police is defined as the minimum amount needed to achieve a legitimate purpose.

Shooting a suicidal suspect five times for wielding a knife that you were well informed about prior to entering house is excessive force. If he didn't have less lethal means he should have called backup to bring some.

The suspect wasn't holding anyone hostage. The suspect was suicidal and holding knives against himself. Shooting him five times is excessive and is not the use of minimal force to achieve a legitimate purpose.

It shouldn't be that hard to understand.

OrphanApology
reply to post by AngryScotsman

 

One, there should be more than one cop. That's a basic. It's called backup.

If there is an armed person, you're supposed to wait for backup.

Second, the guy was suicidal and his weapon was a knife. He wasn't charging and he was obviously mental. A bean bag round would have brought him down without killing him, as would a taser.

As a general rule, the use of bean bag rounds are pretty effective in bringing down suspects who might be armed with knives or sticks. So are tasers. Both would be effective and usually non deadly ways of bring down a suspect who is armed with a knife.

So what should have he done? Shot him with a bean bag or a taser gun.

That is a very valid point. I'm sure dispatch informed the office the nature of the situation.

A backup officer, both with clubs..assuming they had no taser or beanbag shot, could have easily subdued the suspect.

The 5 shots can seem extreme, but shooting a person doesn't make a person go down or fly back on the first shot.

It would have worked out better for all parties if he would have waited for another guy to join him.

A sad ending nonetheless.

reply to post by OrphanApology


What I understand is that the cop has a job to do and only made entry when the suspect failed to respond to repeated requests to come out and talk. The instant the cop saw the suspect he stops advancing and again repeatedly tells him to put the knives down. Everything that occurred from that point onwards is on the suspect in my opinion. He saw the cop, gun out, and chose to advance on him.
I think you seriously underestimate how dangerous a knife can be at close quarters (hence why the law considers it a 'deadly weapon').
And to your "OMG he shot him 5 times" point, you shoot til the threat is stopped. Its easy to be critical when its not YOUR life at risk.
The subject wanted to die, and made the cop do his dirty work for him.
Keep in mind, as the cop walks in he doesn't know what he's facing, or how its gonna turn out. One mistake, and it could easily be him being carried out in a bodybag.
Also consider, although the cop was told the guy had a knife, he can't assume that's all the guy has access to. He could easily have traded up for a shotgun of rifle in the time the officer was talking outside with the mother.

reply to post by AngryScotsman


Two cops and a bean bag round would have been enough.

Again, I don't think you're understanding the protocols for dealing with people. It is the police job when there is a suicidal person to use other means before killing them. That's the definition of excessive force.

I really don't understand why people support this bull#.

ALL police departments have access to non-deadly weapons for situations like these. They are also trained for situations like these and how to use those means. He should have waited for backup and should have used a bean bag or taser. THE END.

If the man was a superman or high as a kite and kept coming, then fine, shoot him. But where it stood he was walking slow as tortoise and wasn't even near the police officer. A bean bag round should have been used. The officer had forewarning and had the ability to use other means. Again if he didn't have bean bag rounds or taser(very rare these days) with him he should have called backup. This is very basic procedure to prevent deaths especially among suicidal or mentally ill(very common for them to do things such as man in video).

Police get paid a risk premium to put their life on the line. One of the risks of the job is to use non-lethal forms of force FIRST. Does it place the police at more risk than gunning everyone down? Yes. That's part of the job and part of very basic police protocol. That's WHY tasers and bean bag rounds exist in the first place.

OrphanApology
reply to post by AngryScotsman

 

Two cops and a bean bag round would have been enough.

Again, I don't think you're understanding the protocols for dealing with people. It is the police job when there is a suicidal person to use other means before killing them. That's the definition of excessive force.

I really don't understand why people support this bull#.

ALL police departments have access to non-deadly weapons for situations like these. They are also trained for situations like these and how to use those means. He should have waited for backup and should have used a bean bag or taser. THE END.

If the man was a superman or high as a kite and kept coming, then fine, shoot him. But where it stood he was walking slow as tortoise and wasn't even near the police officer. A bean bag round should have been used. The officer had forewarning and had the ability to use other means. Again if he didn't have bean bag rounds or taser(very rare these days) with him he should have called backup. This is very basic procedure to prevent deaths especially among suicidal or mentally ill(very common for them to do things such as man in video).

Police get paid a risk premium to put their life on the line. One of the risks of the job is to use non-lethal forms of force FIRST. Does it place the police at more risk than gunning everyone down? Yes. That's part of the job and part of very basic police protocol. That's WHY tasers and bean bag rounds exist in the first place.

Sorry to interfere with y'alls convo, but I agree. Here in my podunk town, the cops only enter a residence, that was cleared of non agressor's, in force. No smart policeman would ever risk his life when he didn't need to. This ain't TV, but they still talk to a suicidal person from afar if they can. The cop should have waited.

Given the fact he didn't do the smart thing, he had to act on his given situation. The situation he put himself into prematurely. He was left with option of defending himself or risk death if he didn't shoot with his quickest means of defense.

I hope his Dept learns from this. I hope other Dept's learn from this.

Sad story - even the woman couldn't believe they shot him over this. In the end, the policeman had to defend himself.

*It is useless to dwell in the past. One can only learn and move forward.

reply to post by OrphanApology


Firstly, it has been clearly established that the police's duty is to enforce the law, NOT to protect anyone.
Second, you have a point (which I agree on) that the cop should have waited for backup. But that's easy to say with hindsight.
Thirdly, once the cop made the decision to enter the residence (at the urging of the mother who clearly says he has a knife and is harming himself), he couldn't have given the guy any more chances to surrender his weapons than he did. If anything, according to standard police procedure, he should have fired the moment the male moved towards him, given the close ranges involved.

Again, I think you seriously underestimate the threat posed by a knifeman in a confined space. If there is any blame to be dished out here it should be directed towards the training that all LEO's receive, because this officer used legal, lethal force to stop a lethal threat.
Sorry for putting a dampener on your cop bashing but on this occasion Its the fault of the knife wielding asshole who made the (deliberate) mistake of bringing a blade to a gunfight.

reply to post by ChuckNasty


I can't argue with your reasoning m8. The cop should have waited, didn't, then did what he had to do.
Also, its a tragedy when anyone gets so low or distant from the rest of us that they feel the only option is to take their own life, particularly at such a young age.
Thanx for your comment, I was getting a bit riled there 4a moment. Have you ever considered a career in mediation? I think you'd be good at it.

It's getting to where if you have a situation with a mentally ill person you can't call the cops because they will just execute them.

reply to post by OrphanApology


You bring up a good point. If anyone has a family member who is suicidal and mentally ill, calling the police for help may seal the fate of your loved one. This isn't the first case that police have used lethal force against a mentally ill person. You're absolutely right when you say when police receive information in advance that a person is suicidal, they're told it's not a hostage situation, and the person is only a harm to himself, lethal force should be a last resort. Police should have some kind of protocol and use weapons that would constrain the victim while being disarmed. This cop should have waited for back-up before entering this house. An officer could have entered the house with a taser while another officer backed him up with his pistol .