An Open Letter to Lovers of the Gun

reply to post by SuperFrog

You guys are delusional - as if you think that those words should be followed literally, criminals in jail should have 'right' to carry guns.

If you could grasp the whole idea, you wouldn't think that I am delusional. The restrictions on the right of law abiding citizens to own and carry firearms is an infringement.
I am not a criminal.
I am not a convicted felon.

Why should I have to jump through legal hoops to own and carry a gun?

Please answer that one.

SuperFrog
... I believe it would be far better to prevent you shooting people in case of break down.

In order for this comment to work, you'd have to have a psychic on hand to predict the future breakdown before it occurs, which is not exactly a perfected science. In all mass shootings and weapons rampages, the breakdown has already occurred without a positive way to have predicted it--our government can't just go around taking weapons from people they may think will flip out. That is trampling on the 4th Amendment...this isn't "Minority Report," this is reality.

SuperFrog
Will you support changes of 2nd amendment, if supreme court make amendment to it the same way you support 2nd amendment?

School time!

See, here in 'Merica, we have these proceedures on how a law or constitutional amendment occurs. Here, let me help you out.

So, yeah...hard to take you seriously with such displays of ignorance.

Oh, and honestly, I wouldn't oppose some changes to the 2nd Amendment, but only to make it more clear that everyone has a right to personally own firearms, and remove probably remove the "militia" reference.

SuperFrog

NavyDoc
So if you had to get permission and a background check to own a book and newspapers had to be registered, would your right to free speech be infringed upon or not?

Further radicalization of your argument is unnecessary. After fail car example, now books and newspaper are danger...

How would your right to own a gun change if there is background check and you are required to register your gun?

Or you think that everyone should be able to get one, no matter of mental state and/or criminal record - because that is what 2nd amendment said?!

I see you dodged the question. If you had to register your typewriter (and several countries have done this) would you or would you not think this was an infringement of your right to free speech? After all, you can own one after getting governmental permission.

reply to post by SlapMonkey


Actually, the 'militia' part doesn't exactly help the anti-gun side. Not only does the modern legal definition cover all males of draft age as 'unorganized militia', the original Militia Act of 1792 required the recruits to supply their own damn weapons and ammunition. I wonder how they explain that one, because its a bit hard to do that without private firearms ownership.

reply to post by vor78

Not only does the modern legal definition cover all males of draft age as 'unorganized militia',

Ok, so I would support a change then.

"All persons of draft age"

NavyDoc
I see you dodged the question. If you had to register your typewriter (and several countries have done this) would you or would you not think this was an infringement of your right to free speech? After all, you can own one after getting governmental permission.

Still in habit of comparing guns with everything else. No matter what argument - guns are made to kill things/shoot them, everything else you guys mention is not.

If there is a law that require registering type writer, how will that have effect on my free speech? I really don't follow your logic.

Why would registering for gun make such a difference in your right to own one?

Let's for second look at 2nd a.

A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.

We are talking about amendment that was submitted in 1789 and ratified in 1791. At the time of ratification, USA Army was only 16 years old. Militia was required for states survival of time.

Now, what 'well regulated Militia' means? Do you consider your self well 'regulated' because you own a gun? Please explain.

Well regulated is settled case law.

A gun amd a typwriter are both tools. The comparison however is in rights, not tools. You should answer the question.

SuperFrog

Still in habit of comparing guns with everything else. No matter what argument - guns are made to kill things/shoot them, everything else you guys mention is not.

If there is a law that require registering type writer, how will that have effect on my free speech? I really don't follow your logic.

Why would registering for gun make such a difference in your right to own one?

Let's for second look at 2nd a.

We are talking about amendment that was submitted in 1789 and ratified in 1791. At the time of ratification, USA Army was only 16 years old. Militia was required for states survival of time.

Now, what 'well regulated Militia' means? Do you consider your self well 'regulated' because you own a gun? Please explain.

edit on 28-1-2014 by SuperFrog because: (no reason given)

reply to post by SuperFrog


This is all we care for: we maintain our 2nd amendment so you and your uber protected offspring don't have to learn to speak Chinese due to an aberrant leader allowing BANKS to overthrow the country.


You don't have any information beyond politics and statistics do you?

SuperFrog

Now, what 'well regulated Militia' means? Do you consider your self well 'regulated' because you own a gun? Please explain.

edit on 28-1-2014 by SuperFrog because: (no reason given)

If you're going to track that tack you should know just about any chimp with with articulating digits qualifies:

The handgun course of fire for the police firearms course that all Waiver of training applicants must successfully complete with a minimum score of 75% and all police officers must successfully complete annually in order to satisfy mandatory in-service re-certification requirements will meet the following minimum standards:

A handgun course of fire must be considered a generally accepted police qualification course consisting of at least fifty (50) rounds of duty ammunition. A minimum of ten (10%) percent of the rounds must be fired at a distance of 25 yards or greater.

The course shall include stages to determine the applicant's or officers' overall proficiency; including, but not limited to marksmanship, safety, weapon operating procedures or tactical skills (i.e., use of cover, tactical reloading), with the weapon s/he will use in the performance of their duties. Requirements for distances of firing positions are: Stages no closer than one (1) yard and at least one stage of fire from the twenty-five (25) yard line or greater distance.

This is pretty standard for what passes as "highly trained" only ones.

So if you go to the range to plink cans more than twice a year your already 100% more proficient.

Sorry folks, even though I did write this:

Forget It, He's just not listening, his last post included 27 countries and no link.
I don't think he's really worth the time.
He say's at first, No Gun's and now it's Gun Control.
Like Criminals will really obey laws or have ever obeyed laws.

You're not taking my weapons or my husbands weapons or our daughters weapons.
I'm a Naturalized American Citizen, I can Own and safely maintain as many weapons as I feel I need for my Hobby, Hunting and Protection.
I would Like to Thank All The Very Brave American Men and Women Through Out America's History, Who Have
Freely Giving Their All, Life and Limb and Well Being, For ME, to come to America and Have this Right!
My husband is a Veteran!

THANK YOU and I Love You All!!!
Mrs' g

and basically end my involvement in this thread.
I needed to ask, do we now ban Bleach too.

GAFFNEY, SC (FOX Carolina) -
An Upstate middle school basketball player is accused of admitting to pouring bleach into his opponents' Gatorade cooler.

link
OK, Sorry, I'll Bow Out Now and go and put a Lock and Chain on my gallon jug of Bleach!

reply to post by SuperFrog


You wonder how many posters here are paid by the NRA? REALLY?

NO see the difference between the progun crusaders and the antigun crusaders is we DO NOT do stuff like that while you guys do.

I mean where's the "organizer" of the million mom march now? OOOOOHHH that's right PRISON!!!

Do you know why? GUN and DRUG charges and a botched MURDER FOR HIRE scheme on a guy that turned out to not even be the guy who murdered her kid!!!

All of this would be even funnier if she was anything other than a figure head the Clinton's and Brady Center used to make it look like there was organized opposition to so called "assault weapons" ownership, which there wasn't, still isn't, and further ALL RIFLES killed less than 400 people last year! Yes that's right they're spending all this time on trying to ban something that you have a 1 in a million chance or LESS of dying of! Think about that for a second....

Also your car argument is highly specious, and I have the PERFECT logical counter to this. Just like cars still benefit the user you castigated widespread and fairly anonymous gun ownership benefits EVERY american be they pro or anti gun. It benefits the anti gunners so much so that NOT ONE is willing to put up a sign in front of their house proclaiming proudly that it's a GUN FREE HOUSEHOLD!

Do you know why? Because I do! *GRINZ*

Because they know deep down that were they to do that it would SINGLE them out, and make them LESS SAFE!

So when even the most passionate anti gun advocates won't put up a sign outside their house but want to send you to shopping malls and workplaces that do the same thing. And more importantly want to send YOUR CHILDREN to SCHOOLS that do the same thing....

AWW SNAP I DID IT NOW.... THE CHILDREN SAVE THE CHILDREN!!! That's right millicent save the children let their teachers pack heat!

See another thing you wouldn't know because the antigun media doesn't WANT you to know about it. Is that after columbine two laws were passed in the state of Utah. One allowed Concealed Carry Permit holding students and faculty working or going to school on college campuses carry on campus. The other law allowed Public school teachers with permits carry at the schools they work at.

Since then there's been TWO attempted shootings one at a law school and one at a k-12 public school since these laws went into effect. Neither of which resulted in ANY loss of life! That's right not even the prospective SHOOTER was killed! And do you know who STOPPED these incidents without bloodshed? At the Law school it was a group of armed students who held the suspect at bay until police arrived to detain him. At the K-12 it was an armed teacher who disarmed the student and held him until the police arrived!

SO remember when your brilliant anti gun crusaders came on tv and mocked wayne la pierre last year after newtown? See unlike them, Wayne was proposing a tactic that is KNOWN TO WORK, rather than one that seems to be making things worse and worse!

Now since these two incidents there hasn't really been any worry in the state of Utah about school shootings there's not metal detectors in most schools. Kids go to school and go home without fear for their lives!

All of this in a state with one of the single highest per capita prescriptions of SSRI type anti depressants.... While I think SSRI's really might be contributing to these cases, even the dreaded SSRI's seem to be stopped DEAD by the two simple laws they passed which don't TAKE freedom but instead reaffirm the freedom people should have had anyway!

All of this also in a state where in the county I lived in in utah PROUDLY proclaimed in their local newspaper in the year the brady bill and etc were being pushed through that there were already TWICE as many so called "assault weapons" as there were people in the county! This county also has a pretty freakishly low violent crime rate... by that I mean almost none. On top of that, since then literally HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS more so called "assault weapons" have flowed into this county. And there's not blood in the streets! Roving bands of assault rifles don't climb out of their safes at night and jump into the hands of criminals and zombified ADD kids to terrorize the meek and pure of heart!

So yeah until you can step back and realize that you are proposing stuff that DOES NOT WORK while denigrating solutions that do, I don't see why anyone should have to take you seriously let alone why sane and rational people should have their freedoms curtailed because of your INSANE insistence on pushing policies that are proving to do more harm than good.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Albert Einstein


Read more at www.brainyquote.com...

reply to post by vor78


Title 10 USC 311. Militia composition and classes.

All able-bodied americans from 17 to 45 years of age are members of the Militia. American women who are members of the national guard are members of the Militia. Former members of the U.S.Army, navy, air force and Marine corps are members of the Militia until 64 years of age. (described in 32-313). The national guard and naval militia are called the organized Militia. The unorganized militia is everyone in the militia who is not in the national guard or the naval militia.

reply to post by guohua


Don't paint the container black that would make it concealable and Assault Bleach.

reply to post by SuperFrog


Wow. This is Matrix style dodging.

You still didn't answer the question.

reply to post by SuperFrog


Speaking of school violence another example of how you can attempt to cause trouble without a gun.

www.staradvertiser.com...

reply to post by SuperFrog


Do you know why the democratic party has switched to the idea that the constitution is a "living document"? (code for can be written on with crayon by us whenever it's current guise makes it inconvenient for us)


When it was pointed out that AT THE TIME THE CONSTITUTION WAS WRITTEN, well regulated had a very definitive meaning having nothing to do with the state of it's arms control or any sort of controlling authority setting guidelines etc.

Well Regulated at that time in that context clearly meant WELL EQUIPPED and or WELL SUPPLIED...

Also Militia is clearly defined at other points in early american law as basically everyone able and willing to pick up arms in defense of the nation.

This is why they've switched to the "living document" argument.

And unfortunately our supreme court justices have done us a pretty severe disservice in bowing to pressure at times when they shouldn't have.

Now if you bring up anti tank missiles or so help me god tanks and aircraft carriers or NUCLEAR weapons.... I will retreat to my basement and spend HOWEVER LONG IT TAKES inventing a device that will allow me to SLAP the stupid out of you over the internet because this is NOT what I'm saying and you DAMN WELL KNOW IT.

roguetechie


Now if you bring up anti tank missiles or so help me god tanks and aircraft carriers or NUCLEAR weapons.... I will retreat to my basement and spend HOWEVER LONG IT TAKES inventing a device that will allow me to SLAP the stupid out of you over the internet because this is NOT what I'm saying and you DAMN WELL KNOW IT.

My new quote in my signature line.

reply to post by FyreByrd


Poor guy.

I hope he survives that aneurysm he had there - people who are THAT entertaining when they go off the rails are hard to come by!

I'd hate to lose him.

SuperFrog

NavyDoc
I see you dodged the question. If you had to register your typewriter (and several countries have done this) would you or would you not think this was an infringement of your right to free speech? After all, you can own one after getting governmental permission.

Still in habit of comparing guns with everything else. No matter what argument - guns are made to kill things/shoot them, everything else you guys mention is not.

If there is a law that require registering type writer, how will that have effect on my free speech? I really don't follow your logic.

Why would registering for gun make such a difference in your right to own one?

Let's for second look at 2nd a.

A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.

We are talking about amendment that was submitted in 1789 and ratified in 1791. At the time of ratification, USA Army was only 16 years old. Militia was required for states survival of time.

Now, what 'well regulated Militia' means? Do you consider your self well 'regulated' because you own a gun? Please explain.

edit on 28-1-2014 by SuperFrog because: (no reason given)

Again, you dodge the question. Your premise is that registration of guns is not a violation of the right to own guns. Thus I want to see if you apply the same principle to other Constitutionally guaranteed rights. Do you or do you not consider the registration of a typewriter or any other device used for speech an infringement upon the right to free speech?

If he's suggesting gun control or anything of the sort as a solution, he's probably not too familar with history. As prohibition and the war on drugs show, banning something doesn't make it go away, especially considering the fact that you can make guns at home (this isn't even mentioning 3D Printing which will likely improve in the future to the point where you could make a gun that could be mistakened for a normal firearm).