An Open Letter to Lovers of the Gun

nixie_nox

NavyDoc

AH, so you are not talking about "safety" you are talking about tracking. So safety isn't your concern, control is.

That is exactly the kind of response I would expect from a gun nut. The exact mentality that shouldn't be owning guns.
What a good little NRA acolyte you are, seeing any safety measures with fear and suspicion.
I fail to see how controlling your own equipment and knowing its status, is a problem.

So, since logic and reason are foreign to you, you resort to personal insults and emotional histrionics. Thus I see that apparently your basis of opinion on this is not reason or logic" but mindless emotion.

How is a tracking chip or disabling chip a "safety measure?" Who controls it? Who is responsible when it fails and a person cannot defend herself from a rapist? What secondary measures that enable the rightful owner to utilize her firearm if the chip fails to work properly? What right does the state have to modify your property, anyway?

If you weren't so paranoid and jumped and jittered at the word tracker, and actually thought about it, you wouldn't have to ask these questions.

Just like a homeowner can shut off their own lights and lock their own locks remotely, people can do the same by shutting down their own guns, that they are notified if the gun is ever touched by anyone but themselves.

The tech is out there, but as usual, the NRA is fighting it. surprise surprise. They wouldn't want to lose money for their constituents.

There is a lot of intellectual arguments against, but not much more than OMGZ emotion for, such measures.


Funny how you immediately poo poo the potential failing of technology that could save lives, but so strongly defend guns in the first place, that kill 30,000 people each year in the US, either by suicide or homicide.

But god forbid that one fail and a woman gets raped.

And you call me emotional.



So you find a woman being raped preferable to her being able to own a gun?

Everyone of my criticism of the so called "chip" are valid and one reason why law enforcement has exempted themselves form every program...because the reliability of this is neither proven to be effective nor safe. But you obviously haven't studied into this beyond HCI talking points.

reply to post by nixie_nox


I will say this, Nixie: you're making it fairly easy for readers to follow the logic in this thread.

To repeat myself, need has nothing at all to do with the gun debate. I have to correct you, though, as a 'need' is something you absolutely must have in order to survive. Depending on where we live, most people only have four or five needs. These are typically water, food, shelter, and clothing (not so much a need in many parts of the world).

Assuming a person is a fully capable human being, meeting one's needs is one's own responsibility. Thanks to capitalism, there are many ways in which we can all meet our own needs. Some people even do more than is necessary to meet their needs, and they obtain things that they want. Wants include things like filet mignon, mansions, and Armani suits. In fact, everything that is not a need defaults into the want category. Birth control, acne medicine, convenient transportation, smart phones, and yes -- firearms -- are all wants.

But let me not distract us from the topic. NavyDoc and others are making the valid points. I encourage you to consider them.

reply to post by nixie_nox


Because I am guaranteed the right to own that inanimate object.
Any further questions?

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Yup. You said it perfectly. I keep my handgun on my hip not because I am a "gun nut" or unstable or whatever description anyone wants to use. I keep my handgun on my hip because I choose to not be a helpless victim (if I can avoid it). I don't bother anyone, I don't get emotional or think I am any more safe than anyone else because I have it. I could be in a bad situation and lose my life at anytime on any day. It happens, bad things happen to good people every single day in every country on this planet. HUMANS have a "knack" for killing each other and have been doing that very thing since the beginning of time and I do not see that changing anytime soon either. Like it or don't, I could care less what anyone else thinks about MY decision to carry everyday. I am a grown man with a family and I go to church and vote. If you choose not to have a gun in your home or community, good for you. I have no problem with that at all. I sincerely hope I never find myself having to draw my weapon in defense of my life BUT I will if it gets me home to my family. Who knows, I may just get one of you "non-gun" people home to your family one day as well. I hope and pray I do not find myself in that situation but choosing to ignore that bad things happen is not an option for me. If you do not like the laws of the land then change the Constitution or move to France. Until then, I will be down here in Texas minding my own business and protecting me and my family like a typical "gun nut".

Have a nice day everyone......

reply to post by nixie_nox

en.wikipedia.org...
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Not one single gun was used.

You and every Anti-Gun rights person are full of crap.

nixie_nox


And many of those people turn around and sell their legally bought firearms in the parking lot.

That is the most ignorant statement I have read to date, regarding any topic here on ATS.

Care to provide the data to back this up??

macman
reply to post by nixie_nox

 

en.wikipedia.org...
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Not one single gun was used.

You and every Anti-Gun rights person are full of crap.

edit on 27-1-2014 by macman because: (no reason given)

That's a very valid point. When people are helpless and/or unwilling or unable to defend themselves, then a mass murder with knife, or club, or sword, or whatever can do what they want and the end results are just as terrible if they had the firearm. It is not what the perpetrator of a crime uses as much as the helplessness of the victims that causes large body counts.

macman
reply to post by nixie_nox

 

en.wikipedia.org...
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Not one single gun was used.

You and every Anti-Gun rights person are full of crap.

edit on 27-1-2014 by macman because: (no reason given)

Well by nixie's thinking those don't count because ..umm because it didn't happen today.

FyreByrd

I'll end with Mr. Pitt:

I would spare you that experience. Please spare me that experience.
It is not the anti-gun people who are going to make this right. It is the pro-gun people who know better, who see this slaughter for what it is, who will make this right.
Seven school shootings in 24 days.
See. Be disgusted. Do something.

Let me get this right. He blast pro gun people for not fixing the problem and wants us to fix it - to stop the loonies from shooting kids in schools - What are We gonna do to stop them - We.. you know .. **The People With All The Guns...** That's just gonna create more Crazies!

A gun is just a tool. it could have been any tool. They need to look at the reasons these people do these things, why it's suddenly a copy cat crime that's increasing in frequency and magnitude. Notice folks, there have been school shooting in the US for many years and always isolated far between. Why now is this happening.. what else in our society has changed to help this happen?

You can't blame it all on the gun.

reply to post by network dude

en.wikipedia.org...

The mid- to late-1970s is considered the second most violent period in U.S. school history.[

22 school shootings happened in the usa from 1970-1980..... just saying so its not exactly new kids been shooting up schools since the 1800's and to pretend its a thing of the 90's+ 2000's is disingenuous at best

and the first was in 1764 during potiacs rebellion where the Lenape native american tribe stormed a school and killed ten children+ the teacher so they been happening for about 250 years

2 from 1850-1860

3 from 1860-1870

4 from 1870-1880

5 from 1880-1890

11 from 1890-1900

26 from 1900-1910(second most violent part of our history in this regard)

9 from 1910-1920

3 from 1920-1930* ( two suicides and an accidental shooting with a starter pistol so not really full on shootings mind you)

12 from 1930-1940

13 from 1940-1950

21 from 1950-1960

17 from 1960-1970

28 from 1980-1990

38 from 1990-2000

46 from 2000-2010

73(i may have mis counted) from 2010-2014

now im not saying the person you were replying to made a good argument but they did happen and they have happend for most of the 20th,19th and 18th century,and to kind of counter his point with the amount of guns in this country the percentage of those that use them to shoot up schools is sooooooooooooo low compared to the millions of guns in the country

308 school shootings in 250ish years out of something like 280-310 million guns in circulation seems that actual percentage of d-bags who wanna shoot up schools is a microscopic percentage of the gun owning population




en.wikipedia.org...

Africa/Middle East 88 Americas 119 Asia 132 Europe 106 Oceania/Maritime Southeast Asia 142 Workplace 101 Educational settings 65 Hate crimes 26 Home intruders 88 Familicides – U.S. 111 Familicides – Europe 104 Familicides – Rest of world 147 Vehicular 33 Grenade 28 Other 46 Total 1336

so it also shows people will use what they want to kill people from bats,knives swords and grenades to cars and assorted other deadly items



not just the usa has these events either
en.wikipedia.org... this guy killed 56 people with two m2 carbines and hand grenades and that is in south korea

en.wikipedia.org... they revoked this guys gun lisence so he just used a sword/axe(and i guess a browning shotgun) and snuck into womens bedrooms and raped and killed them 30 of them......

Mutsuo Toi cut the electricity line to the village of Kaio on the evening of 20 May, which left the community in darkness. At around 1:30 am on 21 May, he killed his 76-year-old grandmother by decapitating her with an axe.[2] Then he strapped two flashlights to his head and prowled through the village entering the homes of his neighbours. He killed 29 neighbours (27 of whom died at the scene of the incident, while two others were fatally wounded, dying of their injuries later)[3] and seriously injured three others in about an hour and half using a Browning shotgun, a Japanese sword and an axe. This was almost half of the residents of the small community.[2] At dawn he committed suicide by shooting himself in the chest.[4]

en.wikipedia.org... from 1960 UK 16 kills

en.wikipedia.org... 35 in australia

en.wikipedia.org... south america with a revolver and a knife he got 29 people(cops may have kileld some with their uzis)

en.wikipedia.org... this guy in two-3 separate events killed over 50 people and he was a cop in africa.....so the shootings happen every where and are far from just an American phenomenon hell even Canada had a school shooting i didnt know about

As far as the school shootings go, I am surprised that not that there's not many anti-gun people are crying out about the particular school systems, and their guidelines on the violence that is taking place in regards to reprisals from bullying. Sandy-Hook is an exception as would be any sub-middle school level school where an adult has committed the crime. A lot of these kids that have taken guns to school and perpetrated acts of violence have been bullied... the majority of schools have not been cracking down on bullies.

The statistics are just that.. numbers... so what happens to these statistics if we only have one school shooting in 2015 but it kills 200 people? Occurrences are just that... someone can go into a mall an fire off a bunch of rounds and not hit anything... the problem is not with guns... it never has been. Someone could go into a classroom with a decent knife and kill just as many if not more people.. or bombs.. or poison.. where there is a will there is a way.. in the end guns will make no difference.. how many "suicide shooters" do you hear about in the middle east?

reply to post by nixie_nox

That is exactly the kind of response I would expect from a gun nut. The exact mentality that shouldn't be owning guns.

But don't you realize that the vast majority of "gun nuts" are living in the big cities?

And those in that majority are coagulated in high crime areas?

And that those "nuts" are criminals with illegal guns and commit most of the crimes?

So I agree that "gun nuts" shouldn't own illegal guns.

reply to post by nixie_nox


en.wikipedia.org... this guy killed 12 and wounded 5 fire and knife

The Shiguan kindergarten attack occurred at a kindergarten in Shiguan village in Gongyi, Henan, People's Republic of China on May 8, 2006. At about 9 a.m. that morning 18-year-old Bai Ningyang entered a classroom on the second floor of the kindergarten, which was reported to have been run illegally.[1] In there were 21 children and a female teacher, who, according to locals, had rejected his advances. Threatening them with a knife, Bai forced the whole class to the back of the room. He then locked the door and poured gasoline from two bottles on the floor. Before setting it on fire and escaping he told one child, whose parents he knew, to leave. Two five-year-old children died at the scene, ten more succumbed to their wounds in hospital, and four others, as well as the teacher were injured.

but you asked about bats so here is this one en.wikipedia.org...

6 dead with a bat over xboxs

www.snopes.com... only site i could find listing "blunt object fatalities"

www.huffingtonpost.com... not a mass killing but id rather be shot then beat to death with a baseball bat

www.slate.com...
www.dailykos.com...

but it seems for one year it MAY have been true i dont have the stats so i cant compare them


few conflicting links that seem to contradict each other
en.wikipedia.org...
and just a FYI the most deadly school attack in history used no guns(he had one rifle but evidently only used bombs/fire to kill people and only used the gun on a barking dog?)......just bombs when the teacher blew up the school with the kids in side 45 children......with bombs and fire

puzzlesphere
The single designed purpose of a gun is to kill.

Not much more needs to be said really... we still live in a society were a significantly large industries' only purpose is to make things to kill and maim people.

I don't see how having an industry and social mindest like that will ever lead to a peaceful world.

... but each to their own... if i'm lucky, myself and those I love will never be victim to someone with a gun.

Sorry you think like that, some of your citizens didn't or don't.
As long as Humans are present on this planet, there will be crime and war.

You'll not live to see the day, Americans willingly turn over our weapons and Trust local Law Enforcement To Protect our Families and Property.

reply to post by nixie_nox


exactly how much good did gadaffi's army,tanks,planes,attack helicopters and apcs and artillery do him? none he was drug into the street by the people who he had wronged and they shot him like a dog while he begged for his life ......yeah guns never get rid of tyrants with atvanced military gear......thats why egypts corrupt president Mubarak's is still sitting on his throne....oh wait he was overthrown and removed from office by the threat of the people dragging him into the street and killing him....oh and when the red russians over threw the white Russians they used hugs and kisses? no they used guns and they annihilated the entire royal family....


on the drones issue sure they could use drones on us....but what happens when some crazy fed up people find out where the drone operators wife and kids live after the first 3 or four family's are raped killed and publicly mutilated in the streets how many drone operators are gonna sign up(and dont act like this horrible crap would not happen humans are a violent cruel race especialy where rebellions are concerned look into the machete killing in africa) or just blow up military fuel depots .....what happens when the drone office is stormed by rebels/partisans......rebels would not meet the us military on the field of combat it would be like Nam,asymmetrical warfare in a guerrilla style, troops would be knifed in their beds while they slept,people would infiltrate military/police forces troops would desert and politicians would go missing. and more importantly after all the crap the USA has given leaders in the middle east about using high tech military gear on their own citizens you think they could get away with droning us on a grand scale in side the usa?

www.abovetopsecret.com... this thread may be of interest to people posting in this thread so i figured id just leave this link here


en.wikipedia.org... oh and the "right of revolution" is not even an American invention as its root go all the way back to Confucius,and some would argue its not only our right but that we have a duty to remove unjust criminal rulers

In political philosophy, the right of revolution (or right of rebellion) is the right or duty, variously stated throughout history, of the people of a nation to overthrow a government that acts against their common interests. Belief in this right extends back to ancient China, and it has been used throughout history to justify various rebellions, including the American Revolution and the French Revolution.

FyreByrd
reply to post by Bilk22

 

The words I used reflect normal definitions of the words. I'm puzzled at how anyone could read what has been read into my words from what I actually wrote.

Obviously, based on the majority of responses, you didn't say what you wanted to say very well or no one would have misinterpreted it. Call a do-over. However, like a slip of the tongue, you probably did express what you were thinking and we got the message.

www.ijreview.com...

Mr. President ENOUGH!!! Stop wining and dining Hollywood long enough to STOP the random thrill kill SCHOOL SHOOTINGS!! I’m launching an emergency campaign for a Fed funded mandate to place ‘armed protection’ in and around EVERY campus EVERY pre school EVERY High school EVERY ‘anywhere’ our children are seeking an education yet sadly remain unprotected from this unconscionable and devastating insanity! Put all of your returning soldiers to work!! they ALREADY have a skill set in place that this job requires! Obama Care???? Obviously YOU DO NOT! I’ll see you on Cap Hill. c sheen #BloodOnYourHands

and just to stir the pot heres a quote from charlie sheen(yeah i know perhaps not the wisest person to be advised by) and as far as his quotes from over the years this is one of his smarter ones...and personally i figured it be like poking a beehive by posting it so at least it might make people get some laughs

reply to post by FyreByrd

the increase in school shootings was predicted by William cooper in his book Behold a Pale Horse. The comment he made, and this is paraphrased is this: There will be an increase in school shootings which will be false flag events which will further the cause for disarming American citizens.

The 1991 book entitled ‘Behold A Pale Horse’, authored by the man who predicted the false flag attack of 9/11 by CIA asset Osama Bin Laden, also predicted false flag attacks at schools which would be used to attack the 2nd amendment of the United States of America. Does this sound like what is exactly taking place with the recent massacre at Sandy Hook and the political landscape across the United States?

he also predicted 9/11, and was killed for that knowledge.

reply to post by nixie_nox


Oh please you think they have enough drones and bases(Once they Actually shoot) to stop TRAINED EXPERTS? Vets who you are NOW ignoring,insulting and again lack OPERATIONAL knowledge about?
Excellent,you continue to mislead the masses we WANT you to mislead ,because obviously we are rather comfortable with idea they wouldn't DARE try anything requiring such a level of control.
They would loose,all the experts and millions of small arms are out here with me ,RAND has no doubt already told them what will happen.