Pilots Stripped Of Constitutional Rights Forced To Transport Tens Of 1000's Of Illegal Muslims To U

neo96
No it is the same thing.

Its not - The examples you gave demonstrated 2 countries on opposite ends of the political ideology using a 3 country as the proxy.

The Russians arming the Tea Party or the Us arming one of their groups is carried out by 2 nations directly instead of a 3rd party.

neo96

And ?

Governments do what they do regardless of politics.

Governments do what they do based solely on politics.

If they didn't then we would most likely would be exploring the local galaxy since we could spend money on things that matter and less on war / destruction / the bribing of nations / etc etc.

neo96

We were through 'allies' in the middle east and the EU, and arms dealers.

Lord of War comes to mind when a 'government' want the appearance of clean hands.

You moved your goal post as were were talking about Russia / Us arming each others groups.

As for arms sales, everyone sells arms. I think people are tunnel visioned on certain issues while ignoring other glaring red flags.

The US has armed countries / rebels just as the Russians have.

Out of curiosity why do people stop at the line? We are selling arms because the government in those countries asked for them / bought them. We don't just load up a plane and fly it over a random country and drop it off. A reason exists for those countries / groups to ask for / buy those weapons.

It takes 2 to tango and 3 to start a war. We sell items to Israel, which pisses people off. Syria / Iran buy items from Russia / France. Reason being is a situation exists that requires those items. The goal is not to figure out with country sold more of this or that. We need to find a way to stop the situation before it ever gets to that point.

The actions are based on.... politics.
From the nation requesting to the nation supplying to the groups fighting.

politics.

neo96
We were the 3rd nation in an AB conversation.

We have a historical track record of doing that.

Which is not in question. However, the problem is when a person fixates on just one country of the 3. In your last couple of posts you have ignored all other nations except for the US. Even in this thread we are still on the US. I have no issues with that but why are we not applying your standard on what you think should occur to other nations?

neo96
We shouldn't be arming anyone. Because theres where that politics comes in to play.

The politics are present from the very beginning and not at the point of transaction and delivery. Something occurs prior to that. As for not arming, its a valid point for sure. However other countries / groups would disagree with you.

Based on that, you are in essence forcing your own standard / ethics to nations that don't share the same mindset. At that point, you just became the very thing you are complaining about. You are forcing something onto a country that may not necessarily want it.

First and foremost, regardless of country, all politics are local.

neo96
Our government denies us those dangerous weapons, but has no quams giving them, and worse to any so called 'friend' of the day.

Im not sure why people in the US need an M1Abrahms tank or an aircraft carrier. Secondly it is possible to obtain military weapons as a civilian. It depends on what state you are in and what you are wanting.

Again, other countries are sovereign and will act in a manner they think is best for their citizens. Just because you don't think we should not sell items to other countries does not mean those countries are going to have the same mindset. Again, you are forcing your view onto countries who see it differently.

If you feel that strangle why not voice your position to your rep and try to get legislation going on foreign weapons sales.

neo96
Stop interfering with internal matters of other countries.

So when those countries ask for assistance we should deny it? That country has internal matters they are trying to resolve and asked for help. By denying the request aren't we interfering in their internal politics?

neo96
Which creates refugees.

Always has and always will. At least until we find a common, binding issue that affects the entire planet, bringing the countries together for a common purpose as a whole instead of individuals..

neo96
Other countries internal matters are not our problem.

When you can build a bomb in your backyard that can hit my backyard, it very much becomes our issue (and vice versa).

neo96
Our problem is the idiots in DC making them our problem under the false delusion of 'it's right'.

edit on 23-1-2014 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

As I stated earlier - I would rather the world hate the US for trying to act as opposed to the world hating the US because we didn't act.

If nations did not interfere then the US and a whole slew of other countries would have never seen the light of day.

** I think I have hogged up the thread tonight so im gonna head on out so others can debate / discuss. Ill check back in tomorrow to reply to any posts I made **

edit on 24-1-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-1-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

reply to post by QuickWick


These poeple wont hesitate to fire on American nor will they hesitate to operate drones. Nor will they disobey for they will be told they can get back at all those yellow Americians who did not support their just cause in getting rid of Assad etc etc.

stumason
reply to post by Auricom

 

If you're comparing the US and Syria as two sinking ships, then you have one that has a slight hole and can limp back to port while the other one has sunk without a trace with all hands....

The US is massive, it is rich and it has plenty of space.
If the UK, France and Germany can do it (and we're a damned site more full than the US will ever be!) then surely you guys can too?

So, it is OK to MOOCH and SPONGE off of the work of others?

Nope, it is Not OK!

Muslims have no place or welcome in the USA..

1. honor killings
2. gang rape as punishment for being raped
3. suicide bombers.

three strikes..

Read some koran verses FFS!..

Muslims... have no place in the USA..

How about the people decide who they want in their backyard.. by VOTE!

reply to post by HanzHenry


What percentage of Muslims agree with that?....
What do you think should happen then? kick them all out? put them in camps? gas them?
You can bleat all you like but history has taught us not to go down that route so all your bleating is for nothing.

reply to post by QuickWick


"Illegal Muslims"

So now Muslims are a race? Go figure

reply to post by iRoyalty


Yep, keeping things in perspective it really is important to remember that most of our tax $ go to military expenses with loads of waste, fraud and mismanagement. TPTB like to see the 99%s argue over piss-hole-in-the-snow social program waste while never a word is spoken about the really big wasters of tax $.

marg6043
reply to post by CirqueDeTruth

 

That is where the danger lies, Muslims immigrant or refuges do not change their laws, actually is its forbidden, they do not embrace other nations rules of law, they are to enforce and make change to fix their own laws.

And that is one thing that no matter how much, we debate how this works people still doesn't get it.

An Islamic converted American is not the same as an Islamic that comes from a Muslim country, they are considered "moderates" and that doesn't exist in Islamic countries, Islamic moderates is a modern term created to make Islam look and sound better outside the middle east.

Islam is not a religion, Islam is a law and US is a nation of laws under the constitution and those born under Islam and practicing Islam would never accept Americans laws they are supposed to fight it all the way until the laws bends to their religious views.

What so many people do not understand, is that Muslims are like any other religious group, in the way they behave.

You say that people who are born in America are different, yes, we are. Because we hold our head up and say we are American,therefore we have rights. We have the right to be a Muslim if we choose, and to practice it in any way we choose.

In my life most of it was spent wearing dresses, and even now dresses are my preference to pants, and I will wear a head scarf... I don't usually worry about it, its who I am and in America I have that right.

Now, put this against other women I know.. who immigrated. A Lebanese woman refuses to wear a scarf. I asked her why once, and she said, "its because I am in America, I must fit in." To her, integrating was very important, and that integration was in what you wore. BTW, she was a very neighborly person and all her neighbors loved her very much.

An Afghani woman, she wore pants and a head scarf when she was out, was a stay at home mom, and had 5 children, I talked to her many many times about various things, her views was she loved the United States because she could do whatever she wanted to here. She WANTED to be a stay at home mom, and her DREAM was to have 5 children (and stop there!) She said if she was in Afghanistan she would have had 10 children by then... and she loved being here for that. She never wants to go back. ever. she is living her dream here. She is, an American now.

Irani woman, the ones I now are here not wearing any scarf, and they don't want to. The couple I know aren't in the least bit religious, and are happy just being American.

The Iraqi women I know, are of several types, one iraqi woman is a business owner, only wears hijab when she is praying, and runs around more free than most American women, while another, is a stay at home mom, refuses to get a job (she actually looks wholly offended when someone suggests her getting a job...lol) and wears hijab everywhere. She likes living here for her children, education is important to her... she never could read or write until I taught her. That is what America is to her, education and learning. But she wont change who she is for anyone.

As far as men, I know several types of those too. Some aren't religious at all, actually, I have gotten into religious arguments with the non-religious from the middle east, and they are no different than any American atheist I have ever ran into. Some, are more religious than others, but, they are just people, trying to fit in somehow in this world. Religion gives them comfort. Very few, are what anyone would consider extreme in their faith.

In the Muslim world, you have your anti-religious, your religious who practice once a year for a special occasion, and other who go every week. Most, are just people, just like you are. Some believe in God, some don't, and some actually try to follow what they believe.

I have known 2 people who are FROM the middle east who I consider extremists. One of those two is no longer in this country. I have seen more who are FROM America who converted and hold extreme ideologies.

Islam, Muslims, are not a threat, they are just like anyone else, of any other faith. There are extremists in every faith, and there are the mediocre in every faith, and there are those who just try to follow what they believe, and others who see it as a cultural experience. Islam is no different.

I am much more afraid of people who believe everything they hear than I am of any Muslim I know bombing anything.

old_god
reply to post by QuickWick

 

"Illegal Muslims"

So now Muslims are a race? Go figure

When I was in the hospital one day I was on the elevator and this old man was on it also. He looked at me and pointed to my headscarf and said " what is all that?" I assumed he was talking about my head scarf so I said "the scarf? Its because I am Muslim" he smiled knowingly and said " I THOUGHT you were from that country!"

Hahahaha... it was ALL I could do not to bust out laughing!!

HanzHenry

So, it is OK to MOOCH and SPONGE off of the work of others?

Nope, it is Not OK!

Muslims have no place or welcome in the USA..

1. honor killings
2. gang rape as punishment for being raped
3. suicide bombers.

three strikes..

Read some koran verses FFS!..

Muslims... have no place in the USA..

How about the people decide who they want in their backyard.. by VOTE!

i welcome muslims, so who the hell are you to tell me who i can or can't have in my backyard? get out of my country if you don't like it.
you cherry pick monsters who happen to claim to be muslims then claim the koran supports what they do, i call you a liar because the KORAN DOESN'T SUPPORT THE MONSTERS.
i bet you have never read the book, only some other idiot passing along badly translated verses.
honor killings are not supported by the koran, neither are gang rapes, and suicide is a sin in the koran, so what you got left?

oh yeah more lies.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


thanks for that!
people need to learn about islam and muslims themselves. they need to understand that muslims are just like them, no different.

i'm not muslim myself but i've known some really great people who follow islam, and seeing people bash my friends makes me really angry.

it's sad that amercians hear nothing but negative things about islam and muslims, as if the stuff terrorists do is really what the koran teaches.
we need god to come settle this! we need a ref!

Closed for a review of the source material

"Before It's News"

Semper


Also:
www.rickwomick34th.com...

HanzHenry
Muslims have no place or welcome in the USA..

1. honor killings
2. gang rape as punishment for being raped
3. suicide bombers.

three strikes..

Read some koran verses FFS!..

Muslims... have no place in the USA..

How about the people decide who they want in their backyard.. by VOTE!

You should check out soem of the wild stuff that the Judeo-Christian Bible says. According to the old testament of the Bible (Leviticus), people should be put to death for committing adultery. HOWEVER (loophole), if the woman in the adulterous relationship is a slave, then they should not be put to death. It also says If a priest's daughter becomes a prostitute, she should be put to death.

The Bible (Exodus 35:2) also says that anyone who works on the Sabbath day (Sunday for Christians) should be put to death.

Also, the Bible says a man and woman who have sex during the woman's period should be cast off from society, and Leviticus 21:17-18 states that people who are blind or lame or physically disfigured should not be allowed to worship in church.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


oh there's plenty more than that!!

Actions punishable by death in the old testament

Sexual offences:
Adultery (Leviticus 20:10-12, man and woman)
Lying about virginity. Applies to girls who are still in their fathers' homes, who lie about their virginity, and are presented to their husband as a virgin. The accused is guilty until proved innocent. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21)
The daughter of a priest practicing prostitution (death by fire) (Leviticus 21:9)
Rape of a virgin who is engaged. If she is not engaged you only have to marry her and give her father 50 shekels. No mention is made of the girl’s opinion, and no punishment is specified for raping a single non-virgin female. (Deuteronomy 22:25)
Being the victim of rape, if one is an engaged female virgin and the rape occurs in a city. If it takes place in a field, the victim is spared because nobody would have heard her screams. (Deuteronomy 22:23-27) Presumably, virgins who scream for help inside a city will always be rescued.
Men practicing bestiality. (Both man and animal die). (Leviticus 20:15) [4]
Women practicing bestiality (Both woman and animal die). (Leviticus 20:16) [4]
Having sex with your father’s wife, as distinct from "your mother", as it was common practice for men at the time to have several wives. (both die) (Leviticus 20:20)
Having sex with your daughter-in-law. (Leviticus 20:30)
Incest. (Leviticus 20:17) [5]
(for men): Sex with a man in the same manner as sex with women. Generally interpreted as male homosexuality. The text omits any mention of and punishment for female homosexuality. (Leviticus 18:22)
Marrying a woman and her daughter. They are all burnt to death (Leviticus 20:14)
A couple of these demand that the "sinners" be burned to death rather than stoned — which was the more usual form of capital punishment. One can wonder why these crimes in particular merit this especially horrible fate.

Religious offences:
Worshiping idols (Exodus 22:20, Leviticus 20:1-5, Deuteronomy 17:2-7).
Blasphemy (Leviticus 24:14-16,23).
Breaking the Sabbath (Exodus 31:14, Numbers 15:32-36).
Practicing magic (Exodus 22:18).
Being a medium or spiritualist. (Stoning) (Leviticus 20:27).
Trying to convert people to another religion. (stoning) (Deuteronomy 13:1-11, Deuteronomy 18:20).
Apostasy - If most people in a town come to believe in a different god. (Kill everybody, including animals, and burn the town.) (Deuteronomy 13:12-15)[6]
Giving one of your descendants to Molech. Probably refers to human sacrifice, which is not now as commonly practised. (Leviticus 20:2)
Non-priests going near the tabernacle when it is being moved. (Numbers 1:51)
Being a false prophet. (Deuteronomy 13:5, Deuteronomy 18:20, Zechariah 13:2-3)

Parents and children
Striking your parents (Exodus 21:15). (I wonder how many fundies realize that one??!!)
Cursing your parents (Exodus 21:17, Leviticus 20:9).
Being a stubborn and rebellious son. And being a profligate and a drunkard. (stoning) (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)

Crimes:
Murder. However if a slave is beaten to death the owner is “punished” — not necessarily killed. If the slave survives the beating then there is no punishment-unless the slave's tooth or eye is damaged (Exodus 21:26-27). This is part of a wide range of slavery laws in the Old and New Testament. (Genesis 9:6, Exodus 21:12, Numbers 35:16-21)
Kidnapping and selling a man. (Exodus 21:16).
Perjury (in certain cases) (Deuteronomy 19:15-21).
Deuteronomy 19:20 explicitly identifies that the purpose of this is deterrence. "The rest of the people will hear of this and be afraid, and never again will such an evil thing (malicious and false testimony by one man against another) be done among you." Presumably all the other death penalties are assumed to be for deterrence as well.
Ignoring the verdict of a judge – (or a priest!) (Deuteronomy 17:8-13).
Not penning up a known dangerous bull, if the bull subsequently kills a man or a woman. Both the animal and the reckless owner of the dangerous bull are to be put to death. (Exodus 21:29)

And of course if you do not surrender:
Living in a city that failed to surrender to the Israelites. (Kill all the men, make the women and children slaves.) (Deuteronomy 20:12-14)