Put a sock in it, "something's being sprayed" deniers!

After spending a lot of time on ATS over the past two years, I have to say that this constant ignorance when it comes to chemtrails really is starting to chap my hide. Posters claim, "I haven't found anything to prove that they are anything but contrails." Seriously? How hard have you looked?

Okay, show of hands.....how many here have heard of Military Chaff? One? Two? Seriously?

Rather than put this in the chemtrail forum, I want to put it in a rant, because I'm getting worn out with the same old posters arguing over this. Freaking do some research before you come out saying that nothing is being sprayed. It most certainly is.

Let me say, first of all, that not every plane in the sky is spraying something. That's just dumb, and inaccurate. Contrails have been around for a very long time. I get that. What I don't get is people who have a black or white, all or nothing attitude. Pull your head out and use it to think, for once.

Let me introduce you to our friend, military chaff....well documented all over the internet, including the government's own documents indicating how much is used per year (See Government Accounting Office's own documents for that), and the studies done by the Navy which state that they're unsure of the health effects on the suckers beneath this junk which is sprayed with alarming regularity for "training missions" and for purposes of messing with radar.

Chaff and flares are defensive mechanisms employed from military aircrafi to avoid detection and/or attack by adversary air defense systems. Chaff consists of small fibers that reflect radar signals and, when dispensed in large quantities from aircraft, form a cloud that temporarily hides the aircraft from radar detection. The two major types of military chaff in use are aluminum foil and aluminum-coated glass fibers. The aluminum foil-type is no longer manufactured, although it may still be in use.

When ejected from an aircraft, chaff forms the electromagnetic equivalent of a visual smoke screen that temporarily hides the aircraft from radar. Chaff also serves to decoy radar allowing aircraft to maneuver or egress from the area. It consists of small, extremely tie fibers of aluminum or aluminum-coated glass that disperse widely in the air when ejected from the aircraft and effectively reflect radar signals in various bands, in order to create a very large image of reflected signals ("return") on the radar screen. In the air, the initial burst from a chaff bundle forms a sphere that shows up on radar screens as an electronic cloud. The aircraft is obscured by the cloud, which confuses enemy radar. Since chaff can obstruct radar, its use is coordinated with the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA).
.

www.globalsecurity.org...

One could say, oh well, that doesn't affect us at all. They don't spray it over us. There's where you're wrong. They do. In a lot of places, supposedly for training.

Here's a story out of Huntsville, Alabama, last June, in which radar showed a huge "pop up thunderstorm" when the sun was shining.

They found the blob was not nature-made, after all, and was likely so-called military chaff, or reflective particles used to test military radar.

"What we were able to see from the dual-pol radar data looked similar to military chaff cases previously, but the primary difference was that the winds weren't blowing the stuff away," Havin said. "The releases were happening primarily below 3,300 feet [1,000 meters] above the ground and the low-level winds that afternoon were almost nonexistent (less than 3 mph [4.8 km/h]), so the chaff was basically pluming outward over a good portion of the Huntsville metro area."

In fact, the chaff was visible on their radar for more than nine hours, and the news stories lingered even longer.

"Officially, Redstone Arsenal disclosed that it was a military test using RR-188 military chaff," Havin said, referring to aircraft used to spread a cloud of aluminum-coated silica in the case of RR-188.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

This is not an isolated incident either. They use a lot of chaff and they spray it all over the place, and have for decades, hence the heightened aluminum readings in soil all over the place.

Georgia / Florida region:
www.accuweather.com...

San Diego, California:


Pacific Northwest area (starting at around 1:20)


Ft. Myers, Florida


I could go on and on. Posting endlessly with lots of links. They are spraying something. Not every plane is spitting out chemtrails, but we know that some are. It floats for a LONG TIME in the air, and spreads all over the place.

Note this quote from a joint Army / Navy study from 2001:

It is estimated that the U.S. Armed Forces dispense about 500 tons of chaff per year (USAF 2001), with most chaff being released during training exercises within the continental United States.

www.agriculturedefensecoalition.org...

That's 500 TONS per year, mostly over the continental US.

See how tiny the chaff is, and how very light. Five hundred TONS of this garbage goes into our air every year...probably a lot more since we went to war in 2003.


Also from the same report:

Chaff is released or dispensed from military vehicles in cartridges or projectiles that contain millions of dipoles. When
deployed, a diffuse cloud of dipoles is formed that is undetectable to the human eye. Chaff is a very light
material that can remain suspended in air anywhere from 10 minutes to 10 hours and can travel
considerable distances from its release point, depending on prevailing atmospheric conditions (USAF
2001).

AND:

Concerns have been raised since the early 1950s by both the public and government officials on
the potential impacts of chaff on the environment.

Okay, kids. They've been spraying this longer than the 52 years that I've been alive. No wonder we're so used to seeing this junk sitting in the sky for so long. The high aluminum readings in soil.....the sudden explosion of Alzheimer's in the general population.......we're not MEANT to breathe this crap. When Monsanto developed their "aluminum resistant" crops, with the explanation that aluminum is prevalent all over, people buy it as if this is NORMAL. It is not.

To summarize: Stuff is being sprayed, it does hang in the air, it is not normal, and we're all breathing it. How easy it would be for them to throw other stuff in to spray as well, but since that is just conjecture at this point, I'm not going to go there.

If you still want to argue that this is just a conspiracy theory, and it's only ice crystals sitting in those hazy skies, then there is no hope for you.

Rant over.

First of all, chaff released by military aircraft does not look like what people are claiming to be chemtrails. That explanation does not suffice. And second, large commercial type planes would not be releasing chaff, and even if it did happen occasionally, it would not be so widespread. Of course this stuff is being released into our atmosphere, and it may even be harmful, but that has nothing to do with believing in chemtrails.

JiggyPotamus
First of all, chaff released by military aircraft does not look like what people are claiming to be chemtrails. That explanation does not suffice. And second, large commercial type planes would not be releasing chaff, and even if it did happen occasionally, it would not be so widespread. Of course this stuff is being released into our atmosphere, and it may even be harmful, but that has nothing to do with believing in chemtrails.

Sorry, but I have seen military craft out here in the sticks where I live spraying chemtrails. Both the long plume and the short bursts. They do look very similar to contrails....at first....but then they behave in a weird fashion unlike the ice crystal contrails. It is very difficult to tell the difference. It is possible that people are confusing military with commercial jets. However, we are not in a flight pattern out here, and we are hundreds of miles away from any airport, so any jets flying below a certain altitude are most certainly from the various air force bases in this area. I've seen what they spray. The confusion is bound to happen when there is a mix of commercial and military craft sharing the same skies.

reply to post by FissionSurplus


Looks like fibers about 3 cm (just over an inch) long.

Hardly a 'chemical spray'.

They specifically mention dipoles, indicating that each fiber of the chaff would act as an aerial @ 3cm long and would probably only interfere with radio frequencies close to the 3cm wavelength (about 10GHz).

reply to post by FissionSurplus


I have to agree with Jiggy, Chaff does not explane chemtrails. Yes I do believe in chemtrails. If you look harder on youtube you will find videos of people that go to these chemtrail companies and askes them what they do. They very openly admit that they spray chemicals in the atmosphere. Those are the kinds of videos you want in a rant like this. Chaff is not the thing you want to be talking about in a rant like this, because people who do not believe say its just chaff.

I believe that you know a fair bit about chemtrails, but honnestly you could have picked better evidence to back up your rant.

Cheers!

reply to post by FissionSurplus


You're right; some people just don't want to get it. I guess maybe opening their minds and admitting that they might be wrong would be too much for an over-developed ego to handle.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Fiberglass is a nasty thing to breath. I feel like we are nothing more than 'collateral damage' to our government.

reply to post by FissionSurplus


Not sure what is happening can be all military even though we did see two military planes make a grid pattern one day very efficient and quick.

Here is my house no air traffic normally around. The last thread on this subject they tried to tell me these were created near San Francisco and I could see them in Crescent City CA by the Oregon border because you can see them far away and oh yeah the wind moves them.

I am not an unreasonable person, but my husband is a non believer of anything out of the ordinary, and yet he believes something very odd is happening as we have lived here 20 years and rarely see even any airplanes, other than a few whale watchers. We know what kind of planes come into our small airport, but this is new and very different and as you can see here they always cross back and forth until the sky turns to clouds.

I believe that you know a fair bit about chemtrails, but honnestly you could have picked better evidence to back up your rant.

reply to post by snypwsd


First of all, it's a RANT. Not an all-inclusive thread to prove the existence of chemtrails.

In particular, I was addressing those (especially a thread posted today) which stated emphatically that there is NOTHING being sprayed in the skies, ever, end of story.

I didn't go into the area of all the other chemicals sprayed because, frankly, the proof is a little hard to come by, and too easy to argue with. I have a strong sense that there are many other things being sprayed. But that is a different topic for a different thread.

Today, I simply wanted to say that there is crap being sprayed....a LOT of it. If y'all want to split hairs (those are fibers, not chemicals, etc), feel free to do so. My point is that stuff is being put in the air. Chaff is the most readily proven. I believe it to be poison. Those who deny chemtrails and claim it's "just chaff" are basically saying that yes, stuff is being sprayed, but so what.

I never see chemtrail believers put out in a thread which is definitive. Because I have suspicions, but cannot find anything to straight-up prove it, I tend not to bother, because this is a contentious subject.

I knew of no other way to broach the subject, other than to call them chemtrail deniers. Naturally, there are those on ATS who will get their panties in a wad over the use of the term chemtrails. Again, feel free to do so. Splitting hairs for the sake of argument is what ATS does best.

SOMETHING BAD is being sprayed. Can we agree on that, at least?

nugget1
reply to post by FissionSurplus

 

You're right; some people just don't want to get it. I guess maybe opening their minds and admitting that they might be wrong would be too much for an over-developed ego to handle.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Fiberglass is a nasty thing to breath. I feel like we are nothing more than 'collateral damage' to our government.

edit on 2u33America/Chicago311 by nugget1 because: Correct spelling

Yes. I don't care what somebody calls it. Perhaps we should coin the term "fibertrails" to satisfy some people. I know that by the time it hits the ground and coats everything, it is microscopic and can be breathed in easily. This freaks me out. I also know that there is weather modification going on (in fact, we have a company very near us that does it out of the local airport with small planes), and God knows what else is being shot out the backside of certain aircraft.

Again, my rant is for those who deny anything except ice crystals. Getting them to accept the fact that things are being sprayed, by the ton, is the first step. Getting them to see that, if that junk is sprayed, then perhaps other things can be as well, since the apparatus is in place, is the next step.

reply to post by nugget1


I don't believe it. Not because I have a "blinding ego." I haven't seen any real proof that isn't just speculation. And trying to connect chaff to chemtrails, to me, seems to be a lack of understanding. Chaff is not chemical. Also, we know what chaff is. It doesn't get slowly released throughout an entire flight like contrails (which are supposed to look similar to chemtrails). Nor does it look anything similar contrails.

If chaff were released everywhere, we would have complete fubar weather forecast that would look nothing like the real weather outside, you would be forecast for storms or something all the time where there would be clear weather.

I'm not saying chemtrails aren't real, but I do know it's not chaff.

reply to post by Char-Lee


I used to live in northern Cali, so for somebody to say that those trails were created in San Francisco and then moved way up to Crescent City by the Oregon border, in defiance of prevailing winds and common sense, is pretty funny.

Aircraft below a certain altitude in areas that are not near airports are usually a dead giveaway as being military. Out here in the desert areas, I do see high altitude commercial craft on occasion, and I do see the contrails. Those will dissipate. Because this is very flat and treeless out here, with no buildings except my house, I can see from horizon to horizon.

My favorite are the lower flying military aircraft who leave the broken line pattern of chaff, while I can see commercial jets farther away leaving contrails which dissipate.

I am suspicious of what I'm NOT being told is being sprayed, but again, that is for another thread. Suspicion alone can be torn to pieces. I stick with what I can most readily prove, and leave the reader to connect the dots.

As others have stated, chaff is too big and has nothing to do with the trails in the sky that are claimed to be "chemtrails" by "chemtrail" hoaxers. And you're obviously not breathing it either. As your article states, you won't visibly see the chaff when it's in the sky, only radar will. So, that excuse is out.

Only fear mongers and hoaxers continue to claim that something is being sprayed up there. Not one single person has ever produced any scientific evidence that something is being sprayed. No one has ever went up and gotten samples of the trails to test for chemicals other than what's supposed to be there.

Furthermore, if something was being sprayed, that chemical would be all over everything outside. Your car, lawn, dog house, bushes, trees, your house, kids play set, everything. Someone could get samples of everything that sits outside and see what's being sprayed. But nobody has done that either.



The whole notion of "chemtrail" hoaxers is that the white trails in the sky are "chemtrails" if they persist or turn on and off. Those trails in the sky have always been CONtrails and always will be, no matter if a few hoaxers continue to try to claim otherwise.

So don't sit there and claim "they're spraying us" if one can't even do the most simplest of scientific research and get samples from the sky and from everything that sits outside.


I'm also not sure why you posted this image:



That image is of an Airbus A340-600 dumping fuel. Most of the time, fuel dumps will evaporate or dissipate in the atmosphere before reaching the ground, so you'll never breathe it, and it won't hang in the sky like a CONtrail because fuel is heavier than water and will fall back to the ground, unlike a CONtrail.



And while we're on this particular subject, most chemicals that could be sprayed to deliberately harm us would be heavier than water, and would not persist or hang in the sky. The chemical (like fuel in a fuel dump) would fall down to the ground, and hence be all over everything outside.

I don't care how loud people want to jump up and down and scream at the top of their lungs that something is being sprayed up there, most of us that know better will call BS.

Until there is some sort of real proof or evidence like scientific / laboratory evidence, "chemtrails" will never be real, and will continue to be considered a hoax by those of us who can see through the BS.

I'm not saying chemtrails aren't real, but I do know it's not chaff.

reply to post by kx12x


We seem to have a ton of "chaff experts" on this forum.

HOW DO YOU KNOW? 500 tons of this stuff (probably more now) is sprayed mostly over the continental US every year. That's a heck of a lot. I've seen it sprayed. Sorry, it does look very similar to chemtrails at first. Chemtrails are also real, I believe, but there is so much confusion, this may never get cleared up.

Again, I'm trying to get the absolute deniers to understand that something is being sprayed. Nobody seems to understand the point of that.

Not surprising, of course, but still. I should change the title of this thread, so many people are getting fussy over it.

reply to post by _BoneZ_


Are you posting in a moderator capacity, or as just another ATSer? Because that will definitely determine how I will respond to you.

I changed the title of the thread for greater understanding. I'm not coddling y'all, because you're supposed to be grownups, but I am trying to head off anybody else who is having an aneurysm over the use of the term "chemtrail".

FissionSurplus
My point is that stuff is being put in the air. Chaff is the most readily proven.

But, chaff is not a trail, therefore it can't be called a "chemtrail". The fake, made-up word "chemtrail" was used to describe normal CONtrails that are visible to the eye. Chaff is not visible to the naked eye according to your article. It's only visible to radar.

Therefore, chaff cannot be called or be associated with the fake, made-up word "chemtrail".

FissionSurplus
SOMETHING BAD is being sprayed. Can we agree on that, at least?

Nope. Something being "sprayed" implies malicious intent to deliberately harm people below. This has not and cannot be proven since nobody has shown any planes that are spraying these chemicals, the hardware in the planes that is spraying these chemicals, or the identification of the chemicals itself.

The trails in the sky are and always have been CONtrails. Period.

FissionSurplus
Getting them to accept the fact that things are being sprayed, by the ton, is the first step. Getting them to see that, if that junk is sprayed, then perhaps other things can be as well, since the apparatus is in place, is the next step.

It can never be called a "fact" until there's some sort of scientific evidence to support the claim. If the apparatus is in place, then you should be able to identify which planes are spraying, the equipment being used, and the chemical being sprayed.

If those can't be identified, then it's all a hoax based on someone's opinion.

FissionSurplus
My favorite are the lower flying military aircraft who leave the broken line pattern of chaff

There's no need to continue to claim that you can see the chaff. The article you posted above clearly states that chaff is undetectable to the human eye when deployed in the sky. You are not seeing broken line patterns of chaff, you're seeing broken line patterns of CONtrails as the plane skims the part of the atmosphere where contrails can form and not form.

FissionSurplus
Are you posting in a moderator capacity, or as just another ATSer? Because that will definitely determine how I will respond to you.

There's no moderation going on in this thread by me. I'm participating as a regular member.

reply to post by FissionSurplus


Yep, I have seen the stuff all over the trees while driving down interstate 5 in Northerm California.

They were hosing the entire area from Red Bluff down. These were not commercial airliners. The trails were criss crossing the entire sky.

Don't expect any yes men / women to believe it though. Foolish mortals. ~$heopleNation

SheopleNation
Yep, I have seen the stuff all over the trees while driving down interstate 5 in Northerm California.

Did you happen to get a photograph or two that you can share?

There's no moderation going on in this thread by me. I'm participating as a regular member.

reply to post by _BoneZ_


Wonderful. Thanks for clearing that up. As a regular member, I find your "passion" and disdain to be out of proportion for the subject matter. Some people so badly want to be absolute experts. ATS gives them that opportunity.

However, let me correct you on one thing. Chaff CAN be seen. Please note that they are working on new types of chaff because it IS visible, especially with the sun shining on it.

But the problem with existing fiberglass chaff is that it is too big and too easy to detect, asserts Gassman. It can be seen with the naked eye. Its relatively heavy mass pulls it quickly from the sky once fired from an airplane, which gives the enemy the “idea that something on the radar is really not the plane,” he says.

www.nationaldefensemagazine.org...

The Army / Navy report states that it cannot be seen. But I have seen it being sprayed, and it can be seen.

I do also believe that there are some instances in which chemicals (hence the term "Chemtrail") can be seen and do act different, but as you have noticed, I have removed the term "chemtrail" from my title, because too many of y'all are getting your panties in a wad, and for WHAT?

You're missing the point entirely, but whatever. I changed the title, because I don't want to be responsible for some people having strokes over it. I am addressing those who say that nothing is being sprayed, ever. Is this something that you can understand, or is your enthusiasm for argument getting in the way?

I'm glad that you don't have an issue with breathing aluminum coated fiberglass. I do.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


You may want to check out the documentary, "What In The World Are They Spraying?". However, I didn't post a link as the people come out of the woodwork on this site to say that it's not "real science" etc etc. They are the ones who claim to have done testing on trees and soil samples to show a bunch of stuff which shouldn't be there. Definitely worth a look-see.