Ancient advanced civilisation, how to recognize it

I have been thinking for some time now about an ancient advanced society on Earth and if such a thing did exist what would their technology look like and what would be the basis on which it would function. Firstly I personally don't believe any ancient civilisation on Earth had things like computers, nanotechnology, electronics etc. If such a thing did exist it would have used simple available materials in a very ingenious way to create novel solutions to technological problems.

First thing we need to get away from is the idea that: advanced = complex

I don't believe this to be true, I believe that as people advance spiritually and technologically they will ultimately move away from materialism, they would also realise that they must live in harmony with the Earth and local ecosystem. Outwardly such a people may appear unsophisticated to us. They may for example live in simple homes, wear simple clothes made from natural fibers, have few personal possessions and eat a natural healthy diet harvested locally in small farms.

They may be a very spiritual people, meditation and similar practices may be of major importance to them. They would probably be a very loving people and take time to help one another, the bond and oneness between themselves, other living creatures and this planet would be apparent.

At the back of this visually simple exterior they may have discovered natures secrets through a life of meditative observation and it could be possible that they have learned to harness powerful forces of nature when required.

From birth they would probably have observed that every child has a talent and they may have educated them according to these inborn strengths. Some children would be destined to be farmers, musicians, healers, priests etc.

It would be understood amongst them that their "technology" could be used for good or bad thus they may intrust this knowledge to a circle of adept priests who keep its particulars secret within their circle.

I started then to make a list of what I felt their technology may be based on and this is what I have come up with so far:

1, Earth energies, the idea that the Earth is studded with power points and that one may take advantage of this knowledge in some way.

2, Astrological energies, similar to above but utilizing forces resulting from cosmic alinements. Time keeping and astronomy would be crucial to them if this were true.

3, Sacred geometry, the idea that specific geometry's/structures may interface with a power unknown to us eg stone circles, pyramids etc

4, Sound/acoustic, the idea that sound can be used to preform tasks.

5, Primitive metallurgy/mineralogy/chemistry, the use of simple alloys, crystals in a novel way may produce results unsuspected by us.

6, Herbology, a deep knowledge of the interaction of organic substances obtained from seeds, flowers, foliage etc Maybe some of these potions activated parts of the brain and was used by them in ritual to gather knowledge.

7, Psychophysical technology, involving singular or collective power of thought and its interaction with matter eg objects charged/magnetized with the mind, objects programed with an intention to preform specific tasks eg amulets, charms etc.

8, Psychotechnology, the direct power of the mind in combination with specific knowledge may awaken forces of nature, in common words "magic" and may require a how to do before such can be successfully brought about.

Let us now imagine that such a society was destroyed by either internal corruption, invasion of barbaric tribes or planetary changes, what would be left?

Answer: a bunch of stones, a few metallic objects and lots of legends. Even if we were looking at their technology we may not be qualified to recognize it for what it is, we would judge their technology based on what we think technology should look like and function.

Maybe in the future as we develop we may learn to see and recognise what they left us?

reply to post by LUXUS


You echoed a lot of my own thoughts here. Most seem to assume that a future progression of our own society will lead to some sort of Star Trek where I see it leading to something more like Mt. Olympus. We will reach a point where spirituality and science reach an apex and people begin to shed the unimportant trappings of the poisonous elements of our culture. It's exactly those thoughts that have the Ancient Aliens crowd so worked up because they see that same vision (they just approach it differently).

A society which did that wouldn't look like a "futuristic" society from our contemporary standpoint.

LUXUS
First thing we need to get away from is the idea that: advanced = complex

I don't believe this to be true, I believe that as people advance spiritually and technologically they will ultimately move away from materialism, they would also realise that they must live in harmony with the Earth and local ecosystem.

In order to "move away from materialism," a society must first be materialistic.
Such a society, obviously, leaves evidence behind of the progression of their technology.

Otherwise, you must postulate an entirely different form of reality than the one we theorize today to exist, plus you must assume that these ancients progressed immediately to this weird understanding with these technologies of which we today have no notions (i.e. "Earth energies," astrological energies," "Crystal" power, etc.) without having gone through the far easier to understand and develop technologies that we are aware of (architectural, electromagnetic, etc.)

However, no evidence of such early use of "advanced" technology exists.

Harte

reply to post by Harte


According to ancient Indian and Greek, as well as Egyptian teachings there are cycles called ages, compared to metals eg golden age, silver age, bronze and iron. We apparently now live in the kali yuga, a time when humans will be their most materialistic and spiritually dead.

If this is true there would be no need to be first materialistic as their outlook on life would have been different from the beginning.

Firstly I personally don't believe any ancient civilisation on Earth had things like computers, nanotechnology, electronics etc.

reply to post by LUXUS


Based in that part of your post, I would like to offer this answer :

Ancient Broadcast Antenna Network : The Saywana System and other Andean Ethno Scientific Tools

The thing to look for is basically high-tech garbage. Over the years I've had a lot of computers and other kinds of gadgets, and they all got old and broke down or came with a bunch of useless parts that I eventually had to throw away. Little screws, bits of wire, connectors, things made out of plastics and processed metals. A lot of the little screws were fairly standardized, too, and either had a line or a cross on the top for a Philips or blade type screwdriver. Very common.

That's what I'm looking for. Little bits of finely machined junk, made from manufactured materials. If you want to find out what a civilization is really all about, you don't look at the carvings on their monuments. You look in their garbage dumps.

reply to post by LUXUS


I think you're right about the higher a civilisation advances, ultimately, they would begin to move away from an overt materialistic society, and live in a more harmonious way with their surroundings making use of, as you say, simple materials used in ingenious ways.

BUT...being advanced, they would undoubtably retain their technological fingerprints, but the problem may be, we may not recognise their technology if we had it in front of our faces.

An example might be ancient advanced technology that is deliberately designed to blend seamlessly and completely harmoniously into the environment in which they lived, such that we'd never actually see it for what it was / is unless we knew what to look for.

An ancient worked slab of granite, looks like any other slab of worked granite to our eyes...and we would see a block of stone, surmise it to be an interesting example of ancient architecture from a monument or complex of some description....but our theoretical advanced, but incredibly ancient civilisation may have done more, incorporated more in that stone...if, they had built a very high technology society, but one where simplicity was desired, that slab of stone may well be a computer, a communications device, an entertainment center, or anything else and we'd never know it.

How?

What if they had nanotechnology?

A nanotech hundreds or thousands of years ahead of what we ourselves are doing now? The block of stone could be filled with ancient, microscopic and amazingly advanced machines, able to perform amazing functions...but we'd still only see a block of stone, and interesting stone from an archaeological perspective...but still just a stone.

My feeling is, despite such an advanced society living in harmony with the Earth, they would have left traces that we could identify as very highly advanced, higher even that our own current civilisation...perhaps not here on Earth, but elsewhere in our Solar system...on our moon or anywhere else.

Even if we still only found what we'd see as interesting worked stone slabs...it would be on the Moon or other system body, and even we must then surely recognise such a stone as belonging to an extremely advanced civilisation...purely because of where it is.

this is all assumptions.
you cannot know what an advanced ancient civilisation would have looked like, because we have no points of reference to go by.

the greeks were highly advanced, and we see evidence of mechanics and clockwork machinery, they were hardly a "ley lines, spiritual power" kind of people, in fact ist a bit of a misnomer to say that the greeks were anything as a group.
atheninains, minoans, spartans many many city states. all warring together. raiding each other.

despite the genius among them, the civilizations were still crushed and destroyed by ignoramus.

reply to post by okamitengu


Well yes, of course this is all assumption and or speculation...i thought that was clear?

As far as we know, the disparate ancient Greeks you mention warring with various barbarians and so on, may well have come sometime after a theoretical 'super civilisation' were discussing.

Like a memory or remnant of a much greater, supremely more advanced civilisation, more than a fledgling one.

But yes, of course you're correct. This is all indeed assumption and hypothetical questions and musing over how we might recognise such a super civilisation, if indeed, one had existed at some point in the remote and distant past.

reply to post by MysterX


Yes the technological paper trail may lead to an off world destination in our solar system.

In many of the ancient legends around the world (btw they believed absolutely in their legends as being factual and real history) there is the telling of how Gods mated with natural Earth born humans (females) to produce demigods who were the heroes of old eg Hercules. In such tales man inherits his technology from these Gods.

What is the genetic origin to modern man, will future Y-chromosome DNA testing detect a mystery progenitor amongst some of Earths population.

MysterX
reply to post by okamitengu

 

Well yes, of course this is all assumption and or speculation...i thought that was clear?

As far as we know, the disparate ancient Greeks you mention warring with various barbarians and so on, may well have come sometime after a theoretical 'super civilisation' were discussing.

Like a memory or remnant of a much greater, supremely more advanced civilisation, more than a fledgling one.

But yes, of course you're correct. This is all indeed assumption and hypothetical questions and musing over how we might recognise such a super civilisation, if indeed, one had existed at some point in the remote and distant past.

i misunderstood, I didn't realise this was speculative. I thought you had some kind of blueprint. my apologies
just be careful making assumptions about things you may later want to actually investigate.
your assumptions may hide the real events from your eyes.

reply to post by LUXUS


"What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun." Ecclesiastes 1:9

There have been many different epochs, and there will be many more, its all about the rise and fall of humanity. Which makes perfect sense if indeed this plane of existence is only transitory to our essence/soul.

reply to post by LUXUS


nice post bro,

i like your definition of advanced

i've been thinking about this for some time, what was it like living in ancient civilization era.



peace

I theorized in the OP that this "technology" was probably placed in the exclusive hands of the priests. We know from ancient history that within the circle of such priests existed secret society's. We could therefore conceive that some of this technology, fragments is still amongst and in the safe keeping of their successors today.

Madam Blavatsky was initiated into such an order and she hints at this in her writings:

We say and maintain that Sound, for one thing, is a tremendous Occult power; that it is a stupendous force, of which the electricity generated by a million of Niagaras could never counteract the smallest potentiality when directed with occult knowledge. Sound may be produced of such a nature that the pyramid of Cheops would be raised in the air, or that a dying man, nay, one at his last breath, would be revived and filled with new energy and vigour. For Sound generates, or rather attracts together, the elements that produce an ozone, the fabrication of which is beyond chemistry, but within the limits of Alchemy.

Blavatsky therefore identifies this ancient technology with "Occult knowledge"!

Occult philosophy divulges few of its most important vital mysteries. It drops them like precious pearls, one by one, far and wide apart, and only when forced to do so by the evolutionary tidal wave that carries on humanity slowly, silently, but steadily toward the dawn of the Sixth-Race mankind. For once out of the safe custody of their legitimate heirs and keepers, those mysteries cease to be occult: they fall into the public domain and have to run the risk of becoming in the hands of the selfish

Here we are told such knowledge is withheld by a select few.

It is just because Keely’s discovery would lead to a knowledge of one of the most occult secrets, a secret which can never be allowed to fall into the hands of the masses, that his failure to push his discoveries to their logical end seems certain to Occultists.

Here something a little more sinister, we are informed that those who may accidentally rediscover such knowledge will fail at reintroducing them in our age, "they must never be allowed to fall into the hands of the masses".

Is there therefore a program of active suppression of such technology in today's world, who would guess that those behind such suppression may be linked to secret society's!

Yes, Blavatsky said many things - mostly racist when you boil it down.

However, she was also run out of several of the towns she tried to work in. She was exposed as a fraud several different times:

What is known to be true is that she went from being a piano teacher to a circus bareback rider to a spirit medium, and she eventually was employed by the spirit medium Daniel Dunglas Home as an assistant, where she doubtless learned some of the tricks of the trade.

At age forty, while she was operating as a spirit medium in Cairo, where she had started her Société Spirite, a great commotion arose when a long cotton glove stuffed with cotton was discovered in the séance room, and HPB wisely departed hastily for Paris.

Two years later, in 1873, she moved to the United States and began performing séances for wealthy patrons there. In 1875, in partnership with Colonel Henry Steel Olcott, a lawyer and writer who dealt with spiritualistic claims, she founded the Theosophical Society.

Theosophy became the passion and the profession of the woman who insisted upon being addressed as “Madame.” She claimed to bring messages from two “masters” or “mahatmas” named Koot Hoomi and Morya. These messages were often in the form of small bits of paper that floated down from the ceiling above her. She attracted many prominent persons to the movement by her performance of these effective diversions.

In India, HPB flourished as a cult figure for several years, until a housekeeper who had formerly worked as a magician's assistant exposed the tricks by which Blavatsky had been fooling her followers. Blavatsky blustered a great deal and threatened to sue, but instead chose to leave India, and never went back.

Next in England in 1885, her tricks were exposed by the Society for Psychical Research, when certain pieces of conjuring equipment were shown to be the means by which she produced the written messages from her mahatmas, and it was revealed that she had deceived a disciple by hiring an actor wearing a dummy bearded head and flowing costume to impersonate the mahatma Koot Hoomi. The exposure did little to shake the belief of the faithful of England, who have always been tolerant of those who would take advantage of them.

Source
"Koot Hoomi" was the "ascended master" that Blavatsky claimed was her spirit guide.
Soooo...

Not bloody likely.

Harte

reply to post by Harte



Anyone who has read Madam Blavatsky's book, the secret doctrine would know she was privy to the esoteric teachings, where she got them from none can say for sure but she learn what she wrote from somewhere. It is not true she was ran out of India (and probably a lot more that was stated in that excerpt), the theosophical society in India is still alive and is actually the oldest center with continuous functioning.

LUXUS
It is not true she was ran out of India (and probably a lot more that was stated in that excerpt), the theosophical society in India is still alive and is actually the oldest center with continuous functioning.

Like others of her ilk who tried to fool all of the people all of the time, Mme Blavatsky's demise came midst scandalous revelations exposing her fraudulent activities, when the British Society for Psychical Research proposed to investigate her, "marvellous phenomena" and publish their findings. They examined Colonel Olcott's claims of astral travel, an Indian member of the Society who related the marvels he had experienced, and Mme Blavatsky herself, but before they had time to publish their findings a devastating blow was struck at the very core of Theosophy.

The Protestant missionaries in Madras published some very indiscreet letters allegedly written by Mme Blavatsky to Mme Coulomb, which clearly exposed the great Mme Blavatsky as a fraud, and her "marvelous phenomena" as the work of confederates, of whom Mme Coulomb was the most important.

The news of the scandal was published in the world press, the crudeness of the revelations astounding.

Mme Blavatsky, it was alleged, had got Mme Coulomb to carry a dummy of a man on her shoulders on moonlit nights to give the faithful the impression that it was Koot Hoomi hurrying by, and that it was Mme Coulomb who dropped the Mahatma letters (Mahatma's thoughts projected through the ether to form themselves into a material letter, written in ink, and enclosed in a Chinese envelope) through a slit in the rafters.

When the Society for Psychical Research finally issued their report, it succinctly summed up Mme Blavatsky in unflattering terms: "For our own part, we regard her as neither the mouthpiece of hidden seers, nor as a mere vulgar adventuress; we think that she has achieved a title to permanent remembrance as one of the most accomplished, ingenious, and interesting imposters of history."

The scandal ended her life in India. Sick and demoralized, she moved to Italy, thence to Wurzburg in Germany, where she wrote her magnum opus, The Secret Doctrine. She suffered a severe attack of influenza in England in 1891, and died on May 8.

Source

Here's an article written 15 years after Blavatsky was forced to leave India amid allegations of fraud.

Harte

reply to post by Harte


There is support (if you believe in it) that confirms what she said about secret society's guarding knowledge such as I speculated on in my op:

an Austrian named Linauer, who stated that while at a remote monastery in northern Tibet during the 1930s, he had witnessed the demonstration of two curious sound instruments which could induce weightlessness in stone blocks. The first was an extremely large gong, 3.5 metres in diameter, composed of a central circular area of very soft gold, followed by a ring of pure iron, and finally a ring of extremely hard brass. When struck, it produced an extremely low dumph which ceased almost immediately. The second instrument was also composed of three different metals; it had a half-oval shape like a mussel shell, and measured 2 metres long and 1 metre wide, with strings stretched longitudinally over its hollow surface. Linauer was told that it emitted an inaudible resonance wave when the gong was struck. The two devices were used in conjunction with a pair of large screens, positioned so as to form a triangular configuration with them. When the gong was struck with a large club to produce a series of brief, low-frequency sounds, a monk was able to lift a heavy stone block with just one hand. Linauer was informed that this was how their ancestors had built protective walls around Tibet, and that such devices could also disintegrate physical matter.

I could find a hundred positive articles on HPB and you could probably find a hundred negative on her. in the end its best to read her works and decide for yourself if she was knowledgeable of what she writes or not.

LUXUS
I could find a hundred positive articles on HPB

All written by members of the Theosophical Society.

Harte

LUXUS
reply to post by Harte

 

Anyone who has read Madam Blavatsky's book, the secret doctrine would know she was privy to the esoteric teachings, where she got them from none can say for sure but she learn what she wrote from somewhere. It is not true she was ran out of India (and probably a lot more that was stated in that excerpt), the theosophical society in India is still alive and is actually the oldest center with continuous functioning.

edit on 22-1-2014 by LUXUS because: (no reason given)

Come on Luxus Madam Blavatsky was a fraud,between her and the Thule society gave the Nazi's their religious/ pseudoscience of Aryan supremacy that resulted in Over 60 million people dead by the end WWII,the fact that her theosophical society is still alive and kicking in India gives no comfort,these movements traveled the globe taking aspects of other people's culture and subverting it for mainly ugly purposes.see Albert Pike as one of the founding fathers of the Klan.