Why China Must Start a War.

reply to post by ketsuko


That 80% number is BS. Only about 10% of what is sold here is actually "made in China." More than half of that isn't actually essential and the loss of those items wouldn't be life or death for anyone.

www.ritholtz.com...

Anyone who tells you differently is pushing a fairly transparent agenda designed to provoke fear and encourage nationalism, and little else.

reply to post by 0zzymand0s

I can't agree with those numbers. Mostly as I try very hard to not ever buy goods from China and have close to no luck in many categories.

The problem with statistics is anyone can make them up. for each site you post a link to showing low numbers I can find one just as reputable showing the opposite. The reality is Made in China is on most of the stuff most Americans buy.....
Sure we have cars and TV's from Japan and in reality we may be able to easily live without the good from them. It will not change the riots that will occur inside the USA one bit were an embargo to go down.

Mamatus
reply to post by dragonridr

 

I have to disagree. the USA gets 80% of it's consumable goods from China. Ever see what happens at Walmart on Black Friday? Or more recently, the chemical spill back east that affected 300,000 people. All the stores were out of bottled water in minutes and the National Guard had to be called out to supply water.

Now imagine the bum rush on the stores when China says no more to the USA.... People would kill each other over anything left on the shelves.

No they dont only about 10 percent of imported goods are from China i told you retailers are starting to get away from Chinese merchandise its bad for publicity.The 80 percent figure is for wal Mart though i believe that number is dropping as well. India will replace China eventually they dont have child labor issues and pollution. You especially see this in the garment industry want to end a clothing line say its made in china.Its caused items to be pulled from retail shelves. The ony person it would hurt in the long run would be China who would loose about 15 billion a year in Wal Mart sales.

China will eventually end up fighting a war, no doubt, but America will never have to fight them directly. Most likely sometime in the next generation China will spend a decade fighting Muslims in Central Asia, build a viable land route from Western China to Iran, and attempt to consolidate power over most of Asia.

They are unlikely to succeed in the long term. They can expect to scare Russia and China and face a cold war and outside meddling in their central Asian occupation.

Whether they succeed or not, Chinese expansion to the West is going to mean a new frontier- lots of young men with not much structure in a chaotic but lucrative environment full of opium and exotic women who may find the ideas of communist soldiers liberal by comparison to the local men. This could end up reshaping China more than a war with the US would. I think India China and several Islamic nations would find themselves going through some of the same changes the US Europe and Japan had after WWII.

reply to post by Mamatus


Like I said: Believe what you like. I never shop at Wal-Mart, my TV was made in Japan, and my service comes from local companies, just like everyone else.

Hell - we don't even get food from China in any demonstrably dependent way. The only reason why a few foods and drinks come from places like Mexico and South America is because of a complicated scheme of tariffs and trade regulations. Real costs are the same everywhere. About 25% is raw materials, and the rest is labor costs, utilities, insurance and transportation. That will leave any business with a relatively modest 8% profit. It doesn't matter where the business is located, but the further they are from the resources (and their customers) the higher their tangible costs and the lower their profit.

Same as it ever was.

rigel4

beezzer
reply to post by Mamatus

 

The US is weak. It's economy is poor. It's foreign policy is poor. It can't afford a war with China.

As a matter of fact, I heard on one of the talk shows that if America got into a war with China, it would have to borrow more money from China, to fight China!

Which would be perfect for China to start a war. Our civilian leadership has no stomach for war. Our civilian leadership has no spine for war.

This alone would make it a perfect oppourtunity for CHina.

Does the US really need money to fight a war or can it just go on a war footing and
legislation to send troops to the battlefield and commandeer hardware for the war effort.

It's been done before by Britain in the Second World War.. Just saying that money isn't real
for Government in an all out effort..

what do you think?

You have a good point, but as much debt that we are in?

It'd cause a total collapse if we were to go to an all out war footing.

In my humble opinion.

Last I looked (and I do look, because 1, my wife has worked for Wally World for over 20 years now, and 2, I do the grocery shopping), my hamburger I buy isn't stamped with "Made In China" on it.

Nor my cheese.....or the milk........or the pasta I buy.

My bread isn't from China.......actually, I can only think of a few food items that are sold that actually come from China.

Now: General Goods (IE clothes, furniture, TVs, etc), yes....a LOT of those are "Made In China".

Those would be the things to disappear from the shelves of Wally world.

However: how long would that take to happen? Not over night, I can assure you. It would take months for the shelves to go bare. All because of all those good being stocked at distribution centers (you think Walmart Super Centers and Sam's Clubs are big? HA! You ain't seen ANYTHING until you've driven past and looked at a Walmart Distribution Center).

So it would take a while for the shelves to go bare, and it won't be over night.

And while yes, us Americans tend to obsess over the crap we buy (just bought a new 1 TB HDD today......Seagate.....box for it says "Product Of China")....I'm pretty sure we're not going to go to war over not being able to buy a pair of shoes, some pants, a new deep fryer, or anything like that.

I mean, exactly how often does your average American run to the store to buy a new 52 inch flat screen TV?

Now think about how often you go to the store to buy food though.

HUGE difference.

Would it hurt Wally World (and other large retailers)? Oh sure, yes it would. Would it kill them? Not too sure about that. You see as I said: they won't run out of crap to sell to consumers over night, or in a few days. They will have months.
And because they have months, means they'll have time to find new suppliers of certain things. They won't find replacements right away for all things.......but they'll still have a supply of food to sell too, and other items that do not come from China.

Personally I think an event like that would help the US, not hurt us. It would bring back a need for things to to made here and sold here. It would help force a mega corp like Wally World to buy locally.

Go to actual war over it? Nah. I know a lot of people (even ones that work for Wally World) that would be cheering to see this happen and watch the brass at Walmart piss their pants.

The real question is: would China actually shoot themselves in the foot like that? They know they have it good: IE selling all their crap to everyone in the world.

By the way: here is a list of those distribution centers, and even a picture of one:

www.mwpvl.com...

In a real war effort with China, the Chinese would lay down arms and surrender just like the Iraqis did. The US has some nasty tricks up its sleeve that the public doesn't know squat about.

They don't work so well in guerilla type conflicts because of logistical problems, but in "conventional" warfare, the US would make short work of any effort China mounted. They would totally obliterate China's anti-air capabilities and then fly non-stop psyop sorties over enemy positions using mind control tech. The Chinese soldiers would surrender in droves.

reply to post by Mamatus


War isn't their " nature" any more than imperialism is English nature, or domination is American nature.

Are their leaders complete tardos.....yes absolutely.

Does the everyday citizen agree, absolutely not, they just feel powerless to stop this insanity.

reply to post by oblvion

I guess you did not read my OP?

Link - to this at the bottom of the page.

For all we hear about China’s peaceful history, it has been anything but. Over that same 2500 year span, they have enjoyed a measly 500 years of “peace”. More often than not, their lives were filled with war and brutality. Even more recently China has been equally aggressive. Up until 1987 China had used military force in 76.9% of all international crises compared to just 17.9% by the US and 11% by the United Kingdom. (Hegemon- China’s Plan to Dominate Asia and the World, Steven W. Mosher, pg. 59)

Mamatus
reply to post by oblvion

 

I guess you did not read my OP?

Link - to this at the bottom of the page.

For all we hear about China’s peaceful history, it has been anything but. Over that same 2500 year span, they have enjoyed a measly 500 years of “peace”. More often than not, their lives were filled with war and brutality. Even more recently China has been equally aggressive. Up until 1987 China had used military force in 76.9% of all international crises compared to just 17.9% by the US and 11% by the United Kingdom. (Hegemon- China’s Plan to Dominate Asia and the World, Steven W. Mosher, pg. 59)

No offense, but those statistics are ridiculous. Any idea howoften the US uses proxy military aggression? Like ALWAYS. The US is so devious that it CREATES crisis and funnels money to elements in those nations in order to sway the outcome of conflicts. Think Mexico.

China isn't any more aggressive than any other Government with the means to impose its will. They are ALL EQUALLY corrupt.

I don't buy this nationalistic CRAP you are suggesting that China is gonna do such and such because they are "bad dudes".
As pointed out previously, your "source" at Rand has been flat wrong before.
"Nobody knew that the Iraqis would surrender." LMAO. The US military knew it.
Otherwise they wouldn't have done it.

beezzer

rigel4

beezzer
reply to post by Mamatus

 

The US is weak. It's economy is poor. It's foreign policy is poor. It can't afford a war with China.

As a matter of fact, I heard on one of the talk shows that if America got into a war with China, it would have to borrow more money from China, to fight China!

Which would be perfect for China to start a war. Our civilian leadership has no stomach for war. Our civilian leadership has no spine for war.

This alone would make it a perfect oppourtunity for CHina.

Actually just the opposite happens look at world war 2. Debt would be paid off not owing china do to war unemployment drops to zero.


Does the US really need money to fight a war or can it just go on a war footing and
legislation to send troops to the battlefield and commandeer hardware for the war effort.

It's been done before by Britain in the Second World War.. Just saying that money isn't real
for Government in an all out effort..

what do you think?

You have a good point, but as much debt that we are in?

It'd cause a total collapse if we were to go to an all out war footing.

In my humble opinion.

No id be instant revitalization look WW2 ended a depression. Us debt would actually shrink do to not paying china and seizing their assets. Unemployment goes to zero and industries reopen to produce war supplies.

Yeah China may become like America and always be in a war:


WW1, WW11, Korean War, Vietnam War, War in Grenada, War in Panama, War In Iraq I, War in Iraq II, War in Afghanistan, War in Libya

What else I know I’M MISSING SOME

en.wikipedia.org...

JayinAR

Mamatus
reply to post by oblvion

 

No offense, but those statistics are ridiculous. Any idea howoften the US uses proxy military aggression? Like ALWAYS. The US is so devious that it CREATES crisis and funnels money to elements in those nations in order to sway the outcome of conflicts. Think Mexico.

China isn't any more aggressive than any other Government with the means to impose its will. They are ALL EQUALLY corrupt.

I don't buy this nationalistic CRAP you are suggesting that China is gonna do such and such because they are "bad dudes".
As pointed out previously, your "source" at Rand has been flat wrong before.
"Nobody knew that the Iraqis would surrender." LMAO. The US military knew it.

Otherwise they wouldn't have done it.

do you have anything besides your opinion to back up your statements about either the numbers regarding China's warlike history or can you prove via anything that the US military knew the Iraqi's would surrender?
As for my friend at Rand, did you miss the part about Rand trying to scare the leadership away from war? Or most likely as I see it are you just gonna troll topics and provide no sources for your opinions?

reply to post by Mamatus


First of all I do not disagree that China is war-like. What I SAID was that ALL Governments with the means to impose their will are equally corrupt. Meaning they all do so. The difference being that the US tends to not only engage in open combat, but create proxy conflicts. I shouldn't have to source this as it is obvious to all who take an even cursory glance at current affairs.

A source on what we know about making soldiers surrender? I will let you dig for that yourself. If you are truly interested that is.
Look into a company called Silent Sounds Incorporated.

They currently have some pretty snazzy tech in conjunction with the DOD that is being tested in North Dakota.
But during the Persian Gulf war their platforms were loaded onto what amounted to a remote controlled airplane with NO weapons platform and witnessed an Iraqi Colonel dance in circles with his hands above his head.

It is mind control via sound frequency.

Zanti Misfit
reply to post by Mamatus

 

, China does not really have Allies per say , just a bunch of Lackies with their hands out.......

The same could be said of the USA.??

JayinAR
reply to post by Mamatus

 

First of all I do not disagree that China is war-like. What I SAID was that ALL Governments with the means to impose their will are equally corrupt. Meaning they all do so. The difference being that the US tends to not only engage in open combat, but create proxy conflicts. I shouldn't have to source this as it is obvious to all who take an even cursory glance at current affairs.

A source on what we know about making soldiers surrender? I will let you dig for that yourself. If you are truly interested that is.
Look into a company called Silent Sounds Incorporated.

They currently have some pretty snazzy tech in conjunction with the DOD that is being tested in North Dakota.
But during the Persian Gulf war their platforms were loaded onto what amounted to a remote controlled airplane with NO weapons platform and witnessed an Iraqi Colonel dance in circles with his hands above his head.

It is mind control via sound frequency.

You bought into a fairy tale for one the DOD does no testing in North Dakota i suggest you look where weapons are tested.

I disagree that China needs a War. I realize that War is good for the victor's economy. WW2 was great for America! But I think that China has more to gain from beating us in the 2nd space race and making money from us. The weird mix of communism and capitalism is working for them. The leaders anyway. I think they like the status quo. I really do. WW3 wont' come from China, in my humble opinion. They have too much to lose if that happens.

amazing
I disagree that China needs a War. I realize that War is good for the victor's economy. WW2 was great for America! But I think that China has more to gain from beating us in the 2nd space race and making money from us. The weird mix of communism and capitalism is working for them. The leaders anyway. I think they like the status quo. I really do. WW3 wont' come from China, in my humble opinion. They have too much to lose if that happens.

edit on 19-1-2014 by amazing because: (no reason given)

China does need an external enemy so those billion people wont pay attention to their living conditions. They cant even see the sky anymore i dont think other people in other countries realize how bad it is there. If there living conditions dont cause the people to uprise then i say the chinese people are entirely diffrent then the rest of us. Look at whats going on there:

Beijing Watches Fake Sunrise On Video Screen Amid Smog Emergency

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Highways closed as Beijing blanketed by toxic smog

rt.com...

Canned air for sale in China as smog returns

www.stuff.co.nz...

In Beijing the gray smog continued to shroud the cityscape and many a tourist new to the city mistook the sun for the moon in the morning.

So alarming was the dark shroud that blocked city views that expats began leaving, no matter the good jobs and high incomes to be had.

After five years in Beijing, an American couple with a new baby is grappling with the health impacts of pollution. "We’re doing pretty well professionally,” the wife said, "but now we have to seriously rethink our strategy." Their baby rarely leaves the house, where an air purifier is on round-the-clock. "If we stay we might have to equip her with an oxygen mask when we take her outside," the husband remarked. "There's probably a market for that kind of oxygen mask for children of the wealthy...You just don't see kids playing outside in Beijing."

newamericamedia.org...

reply to post by Mamatus


Are you a advocate for first strike?