Consciousness is a system

I was reading This thread and felt compelled to reply.
Unfortunately i led my self astray. So i decided to take my post and make it into a thread rather than derail the OP.

I hope you all can follow my train of though, its kind of erratic in here.

Yes i know spirit science has been posted here and discussed before.
This is just my thoughts on the subject of creationism.
It borders metaphysical, spiritual, and creationism.

Mods if I'm in the wrong place please correct me.






We are a system within a system. As is everything.

planet to solar system to galaxy to universe.

Just like we have bacteria and virus that live within us.

We are all part of a system.

We might not know our purpose, neither do the bacteria.

Here is where my speculation comes in.

If god created man in his image, was it his consciousness that gave us life?

In turn, does our individual consciousness give others life?

Like the way there are so many solar systems, inside galaxy's,inside the universe?

So I'm here at this thought; "Consciousness is Creation".


For years i thought there is LIFE then DEATH.
Nothing before and after for an individual consciousness.

After seeing the spirit science series and reflecting on what i know,
I have changed my views on the subject.

Don't troll my thread expecting me to change my mind or stance.
I would like to know your thoughts ATS.
I would like to hear from others with similar thought patterns to mine.

I too see it as a system within a system. I also enjoy the spirit science videos as that is where my train of thought takes me. I can understand them so well because my studies have shown it to be true... for me.

Everyone doesn't think along the same lines though. Be open to others pov and see where it may fit in with yours. If there is no room for another's idea then so be it, but don't be against another pov.. this is how we learn and evolve.

reply to post by MamaJ


I am open to others opinions, i just ask that people not force their beliefs on me.

I also believe that from individuality comes creation.
So every persons reality is as valid as mine.(contradictory to my signature)


That is why the universe is so big and expanding.
Also that could explain the difference in solar systems.
All as unique as a finger print.

My problem with these theories is that it always leaves me with more questions in the end.

I always seek the definitive. But there are no answers as of yet for this.

Science provides answers through scientific interaction and observation.

Take the double slit experiment for example.
Light acts as both particles and waves.
But we cant observe both at the same time.

Confounding to say the least.

reply to post by shaneslaughta


Can you define consciousness?

I am stuck here because consciousness can be defined as awareness and awareness does indeed interpret thus creating a new sense or interpretation - awareness is the creator of concepts. However, awareness needs will, so how does that fit together so that awareness + will = image or new interpretation?

Think of it like a sense (sight, taste, touch, hearing, and smell), where the organ has awareness then interprets to give the sense/concept/image/creation to the brain. The interpretation, in this example, would be willed by the awareness, right?

There is awareness but there is also will. How can we differentiate them!!??? Is awareness a will or does awareness will will?

And spirit = will.

reply to post by Bleeeeep


But that is only real world views.

Consciousness transcends normal space and time in a way we cant understand.

reply to post by shaneslaughta


You remind me of Edgar Mitchell, an Apollo astronaut, who asked identical questions to you:

As a physical scientist, Mitchell had grown accustomed to directing his attention to the objective world “out there.” But the experience that came to him while hurtling through space led him to a startling hypothesis: Perhaps reality is more complex, subtle, and inexorably mysterious than conventional science had led him to believe. Perhaps a deep understanding of consciousness (inner space) could lead to a new and expanded view of reality in which objective and subjective, outer and inner, are understood as equal aspects of the miracle and mystery of being. In his words:

“I realized that the story of ourselves as told by science—our cosmology, our religion—was incomplete and likely flawed. I recognized that the Newtonian idea of separate, independent, discreet things in the universe wasn't a fully accurate description. What was needed was a new story of who we are and what we are capable of becoming.”

source

You might enjoy reading some of his thoughts and hypotheses, because it seems like you're on the same track.

B x

reply to post by shaneslaughta


Maybe consciousness is pure imagination....

I for sure disagree with the premise that there is a system to consciousness. But i am defining consciousness by relating it to the thought paradigm where inner awareness resides. To me it is the cosmic landscape that is the space between things. It is the foundation of existence.

My favorite analogy right now is that we are a spider on the web of consciousness.

I have a question for you... can you explain your idea of consciousness is without actually using the word consciousness? Try not to use the word god or consciousness.

Just want to better understand where your at.

I dont believe its a byproduct of a biomechanical process thats easily observable under a microscope. FOR SURE NOT.

reply to post by onequestion


Nothing can appear outside 'wakefulness' (consciousness).
Unless there is an observer there can be nothing to observe.
The observer and the observed are one.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


The observer represents a state of being what is it?

Dont tell me a label either because with a defined state of being then nothing could exist and we are obviously more then nothing.

onequestion
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

The observer represents a state of being what is it?

Dont tell me a label either because with a defined state of being then nothing could exist and we are obviously more then nothing.

Can you prove that you are not dreaming it all.
Is the dreamer separate from the dream?

It may appear as though there is a whole world 'out there' and that there are many things but it is just the one dreamer dreaming.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


I wont respond to you in this thread anymore only the other thread, no point in having the same conversation in 2 seperate threads.

onequestionMaybe consciousness is pure imagination....

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.

onequestionI have a question for you... can you explain your idea of consciousness is without actually using the word consciousness? Try not to use the word god or consciousness.

The problem with explaining it is we/i cant fully comprehend our existence.

It requires an amount of faith. While some may scoff at the idea of a god,
others believe with out a shadow of a doubt he/she exists.

I cant say for sure if we were created by someone or something god/lucifer or otherwise.
Nor can i conclude that we came into being because someone else existed 14 billion years ago at the day of the known universe.

I can speculate that our universe is part of an even bigger creation, one we can not comprehend due to our age and experience here.

From a scientific standpoint, can you explain to me the big bang, and in where our universe resides?
From that point alone it required theory, theory requires that you believe in something more.

Just because we cant understand fully the existence we have been given, does not mean we are not a part of a bigger system.

In fact, science has proven so far; we live on a rock in a solar system inside a galaxy inside a universe.
We are an infinitesimal speck of sand in the grand scale of the universe, as is bacteria to our body.

So from that premise alone, i can only conclude there is a bigger system outside of the universe.
Just because we cant see it or understand it does not mean it dose not exist.

I feel the above is true without this next bit.

Add to all that, the thread about the spider web connecting the galaxies together, and how they look just like synapses in the brain.
The visual would help here.

Then there is the experience i had when my dad passed. I was not present at the moment, i was in the next room.
I had just went in the room and was there for a moment when i felt it. For lack of a better term, i felt a shock wave hit me.
He had died and i felt the exact moment from the next room. almost as if his consciousness expanded into the system we live in.

That moment changed my perception of existence. After some reflection it all made sense to me.

When i die i will join the system that created me personally. My mom and dads systems that will have expanded into the system that created them. so on and so forth.

Its my belief and my faith that we all create from our existence here. We become more than we are now.
We expand into the next realm of existence, inside our solar system inside our galaxy, just like the universe is expanding.

There may be a few grey areas and a lot of faith but its my faith just as god is the next persons.

reply to post by shaneslaughta


What is the significance of it being a system? What are the qualities of the system? How does physicality play into that system, and is consciousness' interaction with physicality a conscious choice?

Consciousness and will can be defined separately, but it seems to the serious seeker that both terms do relate to one another, for example, consciousness is being aware that one is aware, and a being separate of its environment, while will is the force that allows the conscious being to understand that while separated it IS a part of something bigger, will is the force that allows the consciousness to realize that it is much more than the sum of its parts.

I have dedicated my life to the study of these phenomena and the more I believe to advance the more I can understand that there are "limits" to our comprehension, thus leaving me to realize, that consciousness is just part of an equation that defies our so called rationality, which in itself adheres to the boundaries of our social - historical slice of timespace, meaning that rationality only go so far to try and give meaning to these mind benders!

Anyone that has had a mystical/spiritual/entheogenic experience, can attest to the fact that consciousness IS awareness, but will is the glue that makes the bonds, that gives a sense of meaning where sometimes there is apparently none.

sometimes when our will is diminished, the experience comes, and we are aware but cannot give any meaning to it, other than the realization that something has happened.

Both, consciousness and will can be strengthened as a whole, although one could argue that if both are a part of us then they could in fact be the same, but this theory debunks itself with countless examples of people that are aware but cannot be bothered to exert their will in any meaningful manner, and proverbially drown over and over again the half empty half full glass of water...

reply to post by Bleeeeep


what is the significance of being in a system?

Simple, that our perceived physical reality is indeed part of something else, like gears in a wondrous machine, and in more earthly terms, that the fractal nature of reality is much more than a model.

Th fractal nature makes us realize that things are connected in ways we have a hard time realizing, or even comprehending, we are aware that the Fibonacci sequence for instance follows a certain chaotic order, but we have to make a conscious effort to execute our will and give any meaning to it!

reply to post by TheOneEyedProphet


Wow. You have a way with words.
I wish i was that fluent. I can get my point across with time.
You laid it out well.

there is a system out there, in here, that we are part of, the problem lies in it existing in a place where words cannot even begin to describe what that system is, or means, countless mystics and thinkers have gone insane trying to give coherence, but it is beyond us, its like trying to rationalize love and give out an exact description of what it means, and when you think you have nailed it, some other experience comes along and trumps that pinnacle of understanding!

Make no mistake, you are on the right path, but undoubtedly, its meaning will elude us until we become as one with it!

There is something else , some call it god, others chaos, its useless trying to describe it, the secret is just "feeling" it...

whatever that means!

reply to post by shaneslaughta

So from that premise alone, i can only conclude there is a bigger system outside of the universe. Just because we cant see it or understand it does not mean it dose not exist.

Nice response. Lot of deep observations in your post that i agree with but i think the above quote is a great way to summarize your post.

I agree there are bigger forces at work and how we are connected to this is probably unimagineable, and thats probably the point.

shaneslaughta

If god created man in his image, was it his consciousness that gave us life?
In turn, does our individual consciousness give others life?
Like the way there are so many solar systems, inside galaxy's,inside the universe?
So I'm here at this thought; "Consciousness is Creation".

Are you speaking of Universal digital consciousness in general or 'an individualized being having self awareness? They are subsets or/compartmentalized into areas of consciousness to express different things, much easier to understand as it is a self organizing system to the positive; the system recognises growth and rejects added entropy. Does this system have to have individual consciousness? No, its digital and only responds a positive continuance. Il put it this way as an algorithymic 0s1s thoughtform PATTERN that changes due to recognising chaos bad, growth good. These are very esoteric questions youve posited so of course no clear answers.