NSA scandal: Washington State considers cutting off electricity, water for NSA

I hope that so happens

What I'm worried about is a false flag attack, Dear Leader suspending the Constitution, and turning his loyal troops against us, eliminating all state rights.

We have a rule of law

reply to post by mOjOm


LOL...had would be the operative word there. The law applies only to those without the substantial means to defend themselves. As for US politicians, judges, police....all corrupt to the core. If the POTUS only follows the law when it suits...does the law even have meaning anymore?

...and methods by which to hold people or agencies accountable for misconduct. Actually holding people accountable for what they do wrong and reorganizing those institutions when they get out of line is what civilization is about. You know, actual true Justice

That part made me spit all over my keyboard...WHAT?

Again....you HAD that...not anymore. I'll site the following few examples of lawlessness in the very government tasked with safe guarding our rights...

Massive total surveillance via the NSA WITHOUT probable cause....illegal under the 4th
Torture
Massive fraud and theft via mortgage backed securities...ect that imploded the economy in 2008
Manipulation of LIBOR rates
Illegal detention of 168 people in Guantanamo
Eric Holder lying to Congress...re: Fast and Furious
James Clapper lying to Congress....re: NSA Spying
Indefinite Detention of American citizens
Execution of Americans without due process

These are but a few that I can think of off the top of my head....and what do they all have in common? Not a single person has gone to jail for any of these crimes....and they are very serious crimes. You see....the legal system is a two tiered affair in the US now....one for the rich and powerful...you know, those folks with kids so rich that they can catch "afluenza" from being so ridiculously rich and because of that, not be responsible for killing 4 people...and the rather more harsh law applied to the other 99.8 % of humanity. Does that sound at all "just" to you?

You need to face reality....your country is run by criminals who change the rules after the fact to shield each other from prosecution. Worse....they run everything at the moment. They are ruthless and crafty...and will not give their power away willingly. Thats the truth of what the US is facing.

reply to post by dreamingawake


It will be very interesting to see how this pans out.... I see some kind of court order in the future that disallows them to cut off water & power to the NSA, for whatever reason... Something of that nature. You know?

reply to post by dreamingawake


It will be very interesting to see how this pans out.... I see some kind of court order in the future that disallows them to cut off water & power to the NSA, for whatever reason... Something of that nature. You know?

reply to post by deadcalm


I see what you're saying but you're making it much too simple. Yes, I realize that there are criminals running rampant within our system, however to just say "law has no meaning" isn't exactly correct either. But what you are getting at is very true, I agree. That goes for pretty much every government world wide for that matter. They have all positioned themselves "above the law" and have been for a very long time. That or they just change or remove the laws when needed to allow their agendas.

However, what are the alternatives then without using the justice system?? There are none other than full on Revolution or Rebellion against the Government taking down the whole thing. I know there is no way you're gonna see that anytime soon, so what else is there??? I'm certainly interested in hearing some of your ideas if you got them....

The truth is there is a rule of law and it applies to everyone, rich and poor, however, it takes people with courage and integrity to make sure they are enforced properly. We may not have any more of those people anymore which is a problem. I don't know what the answer is exactly myself, but I know it's not to just throw your hands in the air and say "well, the criminals have already won".

I am against what the NSA is doing. That said, they don't do nothing without the O.K. from our Government leaders. If the president told them to close down tomorrow, they would have to close down. Our officials are the ones that grant them these powers. The NSA is not above the president and they are not some rouge agency set on world domination. Our Government Is The Problem!!

This would give the criminals in the white House an excuse to cause or let happen some major disaster. Then they will blame us, say I told you so, and go onto their next unconstitutional power grab.

Love it. Sure it's a small idea and maybe small effect, right off the bat and maybe Obama's speech about ending some NSA programs was small and superficial or PR related, but...I do know this. History has shown us again and again that small things become big things. A pebble can cause big ripples and form much larger waves. I think things are changing. Hope.

reply to post by dreamingawake


That's good news, since the whole premise is based on nothing but a murderous hoax to begin with (see my signature, below).

It's time for a movement over the abuses of power and the pushing against civil liberty leveraged into place by 9/11.

An act of catastrophic terrorism that killed thousands or tens of thousands of people and/or disrupted the necessities of life for hundreds of thousands, or even millions, would be a watershed event in America's history.

It could involve loss of life and property unprecedented for peacetime and undermine Americans' fundamental sense of security within their own borders in a manner akin to the 1949 Soviet atomic bomb test, or perhaps even worse.

Constitutional liberties would be challenged as the United States sought to protect itself from further attacks by pressing against allowable limits in surveillance of citizens, detention of suspects, and the use of deadly force. More violence would follow, either as other terrorists seek to imitate this great "success" or as the United States strikes out at those considered responsible.

Like Pearl Harbor, such an event would divide our past and future into a "before" and "after."

The effort and resources we devote to averting or containing this threat now, in the "before" period, will seem woeful, even pathetic, when compared to what will happen "after."

Philip D. Zelikow, December 1998

Catastrophic Terrorism, Imagining the Transformative Event - Elements of a National Policy

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Just one more little point I'd like to make here. Specifically for those members, like deadcalm, Dynamitrios and Common Good, who find it hilarious that I use our "Rule of Law" and "Justice" in my argument. I would just like to point out that this "Obstruction" idea which you all are in such favor of supporting is in fact A NEW LAW!!

So be sure and save some energy to laugh and mock yourselves as well.

It begs the question, does Washington State have any NSA facilities in it?

reply to post by mOjOm


You know- I just got rhough reading your comments- and I was about to just let it go, do to your lack of knowledge on how
govt is ACTUALLY supposed to operate, and WHO it is supposed to operate for. That was until you posted that last little piece trying to mock us, for your lack of knowledge on any of these matters . So here I am, to tell you, that you do not understand what you are talking about when it comes to who runs what and who answers to whom.

First off- You can start all of this off with one little document that is the bedstone of our republic. The Constitution of the United States of America. All of our laws, values, and principles of governing STEM from that one piece of paper.
The most IMPORTANT part of that document is who it is addressed FROM... WE THE PEOPLE.
Who is it addressed to? Those whom WE THE PEOPLE have picked to represent us not only locally- but globally.
That is why we vote. THEY- get their powers from US- THE PEOPLE. That paper is a guidline we handed to them to govern by- which is why they and all those who serve our interests- are asked to be SWORN BY. That is their licsense- That is their power- That in which WE give them.

NOW- That said- Our govt was set up with 3 different roles- The Executive Branch- The Judicial- and the Legislative branch.
Each Branch has a role. No branch was set out to be above the other because ultimately we have represenative in EACH ONE.
If the Executive tries to pass law that doesnt consist with the guidlines they are supposed to rule by- then not only is it the
legislative branch that is responsible for writing it- but to have the Judicial to determine the merits of such a law and whether or not it is consistant with the rules which they are sworn to obide by. It is quite sad that most people dont understand these basic functions of government, which in turn is the reason why most get confused early-resulting in an angered tangent that is equal to a stray dog crapping in my yard- it has no merit whatsoever unless there is a actual law passed about stray dogs crapping in other peoples lawns.

What you seem to have a problem understanding(and you arent the only one)- is that ALL govt appointees are subject to
the wrongdoings of their illegal actions by WE THE PEOPLE.

WE THE PEOPLE- are NOT- supposed to be answering to them- they are supposed to be listening to US- more than willingly might I add.
That is where they get their ability to do what they do- FROM US.

THE PROBLEM IS- We The People- Stopped patrolling and monitoring these branches diligently- which ends up resulting in one side gaining fake ownership over new percieved POWER. Which we let happen, because WE HAVE NOT BEEN DOING OUR JOBS AS RIGHTFUL OWNERS of THE STATE. We let them start to go crazy with their own new laws pushed by lobbiests, not in the interest of the people, but for the interest of some INDIVIDUAL agenda. Thats why they call Corporations PEOPLE. They are ROGUE capitalists that manipulated our REPRESENATIVES into voting against the wishes of THE PEOPLE- for those of special interest. They are able to do all of this, and have been able to do this because of inability to actually do our jobs as responsible owners of a country.

We still have the power though- to make choices about who we send in to represent us- and if you keep sending in the same corrupt scumbags time and time again- You are going to have Govt Over-reach and corruption, until all that corruption is put to an end by the only people who were capable of doing it in the first place- WE THE PEOPLE.

With that said- THEY HAVE GAINED MASSIVE POWERS- based off our emotional demands that something need be done, We handed them the key to go play World Policeman. By doing so- we alloted them the ability to use our own fear against us- making us willingly accept our own lives under their scrutiny to protect the national defence of our nation. We do this time and time again- and it is equivelant to shooting yourself in the foot-willingly.

So to be suprised that they are actually using that power is - ignorant to the tenth- well guess what- now they are trying to dictate to the people what THEY think is lawful under that written statute- that was written by them.

Heres the thing though- We still have power over those 3 wonderful branches- and still have the right to hold ALL of those represenatives accountable for their actions- they never took our power- they took our ignorance.
Why is why we have our judicial branch.

The problem I see- Is that an Executive official has the right to appoint a Judicial appointment. WHOOPS(me thinks).
That SHOULD NOT HAPPEN. That is just asking for more corruption- and it is happening.
These branches are supposed to work independantly- but through and with each other- as a viable force to protect our nation.
These laws need to be fixed- powers of presidents need to be reduced- or you are just asking for someone to steal everything your country has worked for by the power that WE GIVE THEM-by being dumb-distracted-moronic politician worshipping morons.

We shouldnt worship ANY of them- it is THEIR DUTY to represent us how WE want to be represented.

If there is a sector in any of those departments not fullfilling their roles that were granted to them - and instead being disregarded
and corrupt- it is OUR DUTY and the duty of our represenatives- TO TAKE PROPER ACTION. If no action is taken then guess what- someone is in complicit conspiracy to violate or circumvent our rule of law. If that law was changed in their favor- it is STILL our RIGHT to change or retract such an outlandish law. If they dont follow the rules and laws appointed to them- They are in FACT waging a
war on the people whom in fact- granted them their powers.
It would be on us- to strip them of that power- and if any of those 3 branches dont make sure to fullfill their obligations to us as our represenatives- than at that point- the entire United States Government has now just declared war- ON THE PEOPLE.

YOU DO NOT WANT THE THREE BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT determining their own power- but they have- are and will continue to do so until this nation wakes the hell up. They stopped representing us years ago-- and we keep electing all the ones they want us to- because they are in fact using the people like the stupid-ignorant sheep that they have really become.
It is our fault for letting this happen- And it will be our fault if we dont handle it sooner rather than later- because the corruption wont stop until we do.

The moment we give up our power- is the moment we give up our lives. I aint down with that- And I am not down with their Agenda.
Cause it certainly doesnt relflect the will of WE THE PEOPLE.

Thorneblood
reply to post by ManFromEurope

 

That is actually pretty funny coming from a German considering just how much aide Germany has given the NSA in their spying operation.

Anyway, this is just political posturing to lead everyone to believe that the Representatives of all these states actually care about the rights of their people.

edit on 17-1-2014 by Thorneblood because: (no reason given)

We... did help the NSA? Okay, this is a side to the discussion completely muted in Germanys media. Could you explain, please? I will not attack you or your opinions (because I'm such a nice guy but this is sincerely new to me!

How did we help? Merkel by clicking "Allow transmission to .gov" on her phone? No, seriously, I have no idea.

Well if one is planning to shut down Government buildings, then I hope they have blueprints for the building design and construction. I am sure that important facilities have independent back up generators. Especially older buildings that were constructed in the Cold War when nuclear war was a real possibility. If they built self contained buildings and bunkers that would function in the event of a dreaded nuclear holocaust, then it is likely that the NSA can survive civil unrest and disobedience. Unfortunately. I can understand the need for spying to protect a nation etc but not to the extent that the NSA has done and have become a Monster that is out of control. Actually it would not surprise me if the secrets to who killed JFK, alien coverups, cosmic Watergate et al is hidden away withing the NSA. But if one is to dismantle the powers of the NSA, then you need to cut off the snake's head. And that snakes head is in the shadow government, and the likes of Dick Cheney, Bush Snr et al.

What the USA needs to do is essentially wipe out the corruption at the very heart of it's empire. Until that is sorted, no real change will ever come. But then again the Roman Empire did not last forever. I doubt the USA will if it carries on down the dictatorship road.

reply to post by Common Good


Common Good, you're talking in circles now and I don't even understand why. First of all, you and I are almost saying the same thing, so I don't really get what the argument between us is even about. But let's try and straighten this out.

You're lengthy little breakdown of our legal system is hardly something new to me, regardless of what you may think. Plus, I don't know why you felt you had to tell me about it because I'm not in disagreement with any of it anyway. I'm fully aware of the functioning principles of how a Republic operates and how far away from an actual Republic we have fallen. But thanks for taking the time to write all that and for informing me on how dumb you think I am once again.

However, nothing you wrote even addresses the point I made earlier, which was: "If you are of the opinion that our Justice System is so completely broken and worthless at this point why then are you in support of yet another NEW LAW which is what this thread is talking about???" Especially one which only puts WE THE PEOPLE in a position where they are forced to rebel against the Federal Government.

You seem to be angry about the fact that the criminals running our system have stacked the deck in their favor making it "Legal" for them to run amok and get away with it. I also agree. What I'm suggesting is that rather than allow such corruption, we should follow "True Justice" and arrest and/or charge anyone who is in violation and more importantly, actually follow through and hold them accountable. Now, this might take actually using Force to do so since without Enforcement any and all Law is nothing but some pretty words on a page. You seem to be of the same opinion, so I don't get what you are trying to debate about in this regard. If I'm mistaken then let me know.

Other than that I thought we were debating the new Law being brought forth and it's mandate to have the State Gov. obstruct the Federal Gov. Why not stay on topic??? Also how about addressing the other points and questions I've made in my previous posts???

Maybe a way forward is to bring a court case against a figurehead personality if possible? To start with a figurehead personality and then to work a way through other figureheads. Or.. to join the local political party, work your way up to where you can influence the vote and select someone who is honest and true. Is there anyone left like that? Maybe everyone gets blackmailed into becoming corrupt and if there is no dirt on someone, then they make it up or destroy their character. I can just hear the characters in a soap like Dallas.

If the people elect a leader, then the people should be able to take away that leader from power and replace him or her with another better one who can properly represent the will of the people. But.. how is that to be done? impeachment?

The BBC's old TV program Yes Minister was amazing for its insights into politics.

dreamingawake

DaMod
reply to post by dreamingawake

 

Sorry to burst your bubble but it will never happen in Utah..

Utah is so corrupt it would make you sick....

Too much wish for then huh? Looked this up and yeah it's #1. on that list. Unfortunate and guess it's due to less regulation on monitoring on such ill action, less population, an easy frontier for shysters, or what have you, making it a free for all for corruption. Then again that's probably why the Data Center is there. Not trying to be off topic but, corruption in states, levels of it might make for a good thread topic, if not already started.

Hmm, I wonder, then how will this even pan out. Your view/s?
Utah Legislators Move To Kill NSA Data Center


Bill by Rep. Marc Roberts

The legislation drafted by a transpartisan coalition organized by the Tenth Amendment Center (TAC) and the Bill of Rights Defense Committee (BORDC) called OffNow Coalition. The Utah Fourth Amendment Protection Act would expressly prohibit state material support, participation, and assistance to any federal agency that collects electronic date or metadata without a search warrant “that particularly desribes the person, place and thing to be searched or seized.”

Thanks to: www.abovetopsecret.com...

-apologies on bumping an older thread- but this appears relevant.