Religious Revival & A Lack of Metaphysics.

Aphorism
reply to post by BlueMule

 

It's isn't erroneous, and it isn't a desire. Conflict is part of nature, and conflicting ideas are natural. They arise, they conflict, and they evolve whether we desire it or not. You yourself take a side and contribute to this conflict every time you make one of your anti-spirituality threads or posts regardless of how subtle they are. So, this thread might be a tad bit hypocritical.

Hypocrisy too is natural.

My anti-spiritual threads are pro-spiritual. Hows that for a contradiction?

Pretty lame. You are pro-Aphorisms-personal-brand-of-spirituality and anti-everyone-else's-spirituality. You accuse others of chasing 'imaginary worlds' while using 'imaginary invocations and assumptions' while wearing mere 'costumes of spirituality' and you judge gurus by their beards. You are not open to evidence that suggests you are wrong. In my opinion you are judgmental, egotistical, hypocritical, closed-minded.

I would be interested to see if you can manage a pro-everyone-else's-spirituality thread that is anti-Aphorisms-spirituality.

reply to post by BlueMule

Pretty lame. You are pro-Aphorisms-personal-brand-of-spirituality and anti-everyone-else's-spirituality. You accuse others of chasing 'imaginary worlds' while wearing mere 'costumes of spirituality' and you judge gurus by their beards. In my opinion you are judgmental, egotistical, hypocritical.

I would be interested to see if you can manage a pro-everyone-else's-spirituality thread that is anti-Aphorisms-spirituality.

And you are so forgiving of other viewpoints. Even now you look down from your high-horse on my views, as if they weren't exactly equal. You attempt to take spirituality away from people by limiting it to your specific brand. Pretty lame.

the core of the OP statement can be characterized as an equivalence of all rational judgments according to a pluralistic relativism. in other words: there is a This and there is a That, but neither This nor That can be structured according to some vertical-hierarchical value system. the inevitable result of this type of thinking is a horizontal bland gray homogeneous mush where everything is something is nothing.

we can test this idea via simple observation of the world around us. quite plainly, we can see that reality does indeed appear to be constructed of Things. in order for this to be true, a vertical-hierarchical structure must exist as a fundamental corollary of reality. there is a This and there is a That, and much of the time This is 'higher than' That. the hierarchy of reality is the natural result of the evolution of forms, directionally, from stability to instability to stability.... and so on.

Therefore, inasmuch as we are members of reality, our thought-forms must also be structured according to some definite hierarchy.... one which is not subject to the demands of any individual in particular, but rather, one which may give proper context to all individuals in general.

It is a structure that can be known... but only after we move beyond egalitarianism, which is an unstable phase, back into a stable phase. we will expect this structure to be somewhat similar in nature to the current conventional (religious) paradigm, but different in that it will contain all previous phases on the interior of its new boundary.

and upon this 'new boundary' can be given a 'new name'. this is the proper revival.

Note: Personal attacks will not be tolerated.

Please discuss the topic itself and refrain from casting aspersions.

Yes, we all have our own individual little religion (the method we use to figure out our experience). Others who are similar start to get together and work towards coherence. When a conflicting idea is encountered, it is generally approached from a defensive standpoint based in asserting what we already know as true. Due to the human cultural story, the method frequently employed is to weaken the opponent to assert dominance. The other end of the spectrum is to use each others limited perspective to learn more about the world than either could on their own.

Math is just another language of sorts. However, it is very effective in communicating relatively complex ideas across personal boundaries. I have always wondered what it would be like if our spoken language was based on the mathematical wave functions of our experience..

All we will ever know is contained within the limited human experience, even collectively. Im not sure the method of communication (math, religion, pop culture) is as important as the intent and content of the communication.

But, we sure do tend to focus on the method!

Aphorism
reply to post by BlueMule

 

Pretty lame. You are pro-Aphorisms-personal-brand-of-spirituality and anti-everyone-else's-spirituality. You accuse others of chasing 'imaginary worlds' while wearing mere 'costumes of spirituality' and you judge gurus by their beards. In my opinion you are judgmental, egotistical, hypocritical.

I would be interested to see if you can manage a pro-everyone-else's-spirituality thread that is anti-Aphorisms-spirituality.

And you are so forgiving of other viewpoints. Even now you look down from your high-horse on my views, as if they weren't exactly equal. You attempt to take spirituality away from people by limiting it to your specific brand. Pretty lame.

One minute you think God exists, but only insofar as it exists as a word in a book. The next minute you think God sees through our eyes. Make up your mind! How can a mere word in a book look out from our eyes? Have an internally-consistent spiritual viewpoint that is open to modification by evidence, and I will forgive it. :p

You seem to be worshipping your own cleverness and enlightenment, and you sacrifice other peoples spirituality on your altar. But underneath your pomp and vanity is contradiction and error. So yes, maybe I do look down from high-horse at your views, but only because they are inconsistent and aren't open to evidence.

I repeat... personal attacks will not be tolerated. If one cannot stop themselves from doing so, a post ban may very well result.

reply to post by BlueMule

You seem to be worshipping your own cleverness and enlightenment, and you sacrifice other peoples spirituality on your altar. But underneath your pomp and vanity is contradiction and error. So yes, maybe I do look down from high-horse at your views, but only because they are inconsistent and aren't open to evidence.

And such are your opinions. I appreciate them because they are not mine; you created them. They are the views of a human being. That is how I see value in them. Why do I not receive the same respect? Why doesn't anyone receive the same respect?

Why concern yourself with my opinions? Why the disgust in how I express myself, how I view the world? Do my opinions have any bearing on yours?

This is religiosity. This is fundamentalism—the strict adherence to fundamental principles, as if they were God's honest truth.

Aphorism
reply to post by BlueMule

 

Pretty lame. You are pro-Aphorisms-personal-brand-of-spirituality and anti-everyone-else's-spirituality. You accuse others of chasing 'imaginary worlds' while wearing mere 'costumes of spirituality' and you judge gurus by their beards. In my opinion you are judgmental, egotistical, hypocritical.

I would be interested to see if you can manage a pro-everyone-else's-spirituality thread that is anti-Aphorisms-spirituality.

And you are so forgiving of other viewpoints. Even now you look down from your high-horse on my views, as if they weren't exactly equal. You attempt to take spirituality away from people by limiting it to your specific brand. Pretty lame.

I disagree he cannot be "taking spirituality away from people" because that's impossible.
How is he "limiting it to a specific brand" when he clearly stated :

I would be interested to see if you can manage a pro-everyone-else's-spirituality thread

Although my recent threads didn't exactly start from that perspective, after extensive research and questioning that is where I am at now. In fact since such information is so rare I should probably dedicate a lot of time this weekend to focusing on adding a few pages of new stuff to the 'Shade of the Sha'.

I am convinced everyone is "spiritual" however most are ignorant about the world around them.
So the problem isn't a 'lack of spiritual', it's a lack of knowledge. By increasing knowledge, one expands their perceptions and widens their view of that always existent Spirit. 'Language' is a central component of this.

reply to post by muzzleflash

Although my recent threads didn't exactly start from that perspective, after extensive research and questioning that is where I am at now.

Isn't it so amazing when that happens?

In fact since such information is so rare I should probably dedicate a lot of time this weekend to focusing on adding a few pages of new stuff to the 'Shade of the Sha'.

Don't know what 'Shade of the Sha' is, but....hey...go for it!

I am convinced everyone is "spiritual" however most are ignorant about the world around them.
So the problem isn't a 'lack of spiritual', it's a lack of knowledge.

Yes!

By increasing knowledge, one expands their perceptions and widens their view of that always existent Spirit. 'Language' is a central component of this.

Yes.
Thanks for your post. Deserved repeating.
star

Aphorism
reply to post by BlueMule

 

You seem to be worshipping your own cleverness and enlightenment, and you sacrifice other peoples spirituality on your altar. But underneath your pomp and vanity is contradiction and error. So yes, maybe I do look down from high-horse at your views, but only because they are inconsistent and aren't open to evidence.

And such are your opinions. I appreciate them because they are not mine; you created them. They are the views of a human being. That is how I see value in them. Why do I not receive the same respect? Why doesn't anyone receive the same respect?

Why concern yourself with my opinions? Why the disgust in how I express myself, how I view the world? Do my opinions have any bearing on yours?

This is religiosity. This is fundamentalism—the strict adherence to fundamental principles, as if they were God's honest truth.

The thing about value is...people like to prioritize their values by how they serve the purposes which would undermine those said values. That is, how does being honest help the part of me that doesn't want to be honest? How does being kind benefit the part of me that would rather be unkind? There are psychopaths, and then there are people who are dishonest or unkind purely because they are surrounded by so many people who will easily bite you if you don't bite them first. They have learned to be unscrupulous to a degree, because that moment of unscrupulousness is the difference between getting ahead and falling behind.

So when we look at value, what are we looking at? What makes us a better person today, or what helps us survive today so we get the chance to be a better person tomorrow?

AfterInfinity

The thing about value is...people like to prioritize their values by how they serve the purposes which would undermine those said values. That is, how does being honest help the part of me that doesn't want to be honest?

The part of anyone that does not want to be honest is the part of the ego that is afraid. The "truth" or perhaps it would be more accurate to use the word "sincerity" can be like dropping a bomb to many people. Many people tend to only want to here something if it suits them, so it is common for people to want to lie to protect themselves from conflict.

People would lie for many reasons (it is all to do with fear) but it can only be because they do not appreciate the 'man in the mirror' they see enough to own it. It is as if some people see other people as a "resource" they cant live without and will do whatever it takes to protect their vested interests.

This post kinda pings on what I've been chewing on for a while OP - but I personally view it as a hardening of what is there already and not a revival. The same thing is happening with politics - those disillusioned with the systems remain so - but those still participating (red versus blue) are hardening their stances.

Everyone that is still in the game (for lack of a better word) is tensing up - IMO it's kinda like rigor-mortis.

Thanks for your perspective.

TheDualityExperience

AfterInfinity

The thing about value is...people like to prioritize their values by how they serve the purposes which would undermine those said values. That is, how does being honest help the part of me that doesn't want to be honest?

The part of anyone that does not want to be honest is the part of the ego that is afraid. The "truth" or perhaps it would be more accurate to use the word "sincerity" can be like dropping a bomb to many people. Many people tend to only want to here something if it suits them, so it is common for people to want to lie to protect themselves from conflict.

People would lie for many reasons (it is all to do with fear) but it can only be because they do not appreciate the 'man in the mirror' they see enough to own it. It is as if some people see other people as a "resource" they cant live without and will do whatever it takes to protect their vested interests.

Imagine if everyone was completely and perfectly honest, all the time. Ever seen the movie The Invention of Lying? Yeah. But that just brings us back to the point I made. What values do we hold dear? The values that make us a better person today, or keep us alive long enough to be a better person tomorrow?

Aphorism
reply to post by BlueMule

 

You seem to be worshipping your own cleverness and enlightenment, and you sacrifice other peoples spirituality on your altar. But underneath your pomp and vanity is contradiction and error. So yes, maybe I do look down from high-horse at your views, but only because they are inconsistent and aren't open to evidence.

And such are your opinions. I appreciate them because they are not mine; you created them. They are the views of a human being. That is how I see value in them. Why do I not receive the same respect? Why doesn't anyone receive the same respect?

I'm truly sorry if I have made you feel disrespected. In fact I do have respect for you or I wouldn't bother bantering with you. You're a worthy opponent. I enjoy bantering with you, and as I have said before I appreciate your polite manners.

Why concern yourself with my opinions?

I don't concern myself with anyone's opinions about trivial things like politics, or pop-culture, or sports, or food. But I do concern myself with your opinions about spirituality because I feel they are worthy of my concern.

AfterInfinity

Imagine if everyone was completely and perfectly honest, all the time. Ever seen the movie The Invention of Lying? Yeah. But that just brings us back to the point I made. What values do we hold dear? The values that make us a better person today, or keep us alive long enough to be a better person tomorrow?

edit on 16-1-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

I think as far as values go they really cant be specified for anyone by anyone else. I do think there has to be some universal values, not many, that everyone must accept. There has to be some common ground that every single person on the planet can agree on sort of like the ten commandments or something that makes 'perfect' sense to everyones interpretations on how we can all "play together" without conflict escalating.
Look the only reason i believe people are dishonest is because they build an personal image that is placed on some pedestal and compared to something else.

reply to post by BlueMule

I'm truly sorry if I have made you feel disrespected. In fact I do have respect for you or I wouldn't bother bantering with you. You're a worthy opponent. I enjoy bantering with you, and as I have said before I appreciate your polite manners.

I have a really thick skin, especially when it comes to internet discussions, so please don't feel sorry. I expect confrontation when I write polemically. I merely wanted to ask the question why my views—or anyone's for that manner—are worthy of disgust and hatred? Why would someone harm themselves or someone else for what amounts to mere opinion? And why attack me as a person for having a strictly personal set of views? These are a questions I wrestle with often.

I don't concern myself with anyone's opinions about trivial things like politics, or pop-culture, or sports, or food. But I do concern myself with your opinions about spirituality because I feel they are worthy of my concern.

This is honest. The question I have for you is: why are my opinions worthy of your concern? Do you perhaps fear that I may turn people away from spirituality? Or that I am being dishonourable towards it? Or that they somehow take away from your truths? I am being sincere here.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

So when we look at value, what are we looking at? What makes us a better person today, or what helps us survive today so we get the chance to be a better person tomorrow?

These are tough questions AfterInfinity. Do you care to formulate an answer?

It is hard to understand someone's total perspective when only viewing snippets of them.
Seems that people are very eager to make assumptions. Just because someone doesn't follow a system does not mean they see no value in it.
What bothers me is we as society seem to have some mental tick of forcing our will on others.
I appreciate knowledge in all forms but when someone offers enlightenment it sends up red flags to me.

Aphorism
Do you perhaps fear that I may turn people away from spirituality?

How do you turn someone away from Everything?
You keep talking about spirituality like it's a possession that can be traded or stolen, so color me confused.

Explain how spirituality can be stolen or taken away.
I am very curious to find out how this works because it seems impossible.