ETs / UFOs as Advanced Machine Intelligence.

I guess it just depends on what we're willing to call a "machine." In my mind, insects are like little machines, running around with their tiny efficient bodies using a microscopic brain with only a few simple programs/instincts.

Anyway, I think it might be a mistake to see these things as machines the way we consider machines, and swapping out alien creatures for robots, even though that's what our brains are telling us they most closely resemble. There is probably more to them than that.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

I guess it just depends on what we're willing to call a "machine." In my mind, insects are like little machines, running around with their tiny efficient bodies using a microscopic brain with only a few simple programs/instincts.

Ha interesting point mate and I suppose it's all about context - macro images of insects make them look more 'organic' (link) but I suppose large numbers of human beings running around could also resemble something machine-like from a certain perspective.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

Anyway, I think it might be a mistake to see these things as machines the way we consider machines, and swapping out alien creatures for robots, even though that's what our brains are telling us they most closely resemble. There is probably more to them than that.

Good point there - hell, maybe all the different UFO occupant reports are products of different AI avatars from 3D printers - who knows?

Have you read the short story 'The State Of The Art' by Ian M. Banks? Certainly makes a person think!

Know you will probably have read it but for those who haven't below is a great article on AI by Tim Urban (sourced by AdmireTheDistance).


The AI Revolution: The Road to Superintelligence

originally posted by: Blue Shift
I guess it just depends on what we're willing to call a "machine." In my mind, insects are like little machines, running around with their tiny efficient bodies using a microscopic brain with only a few simple programs/instincts.

Anyway, I think it might be a mistake to see these things as machines the way we consider machines, and swapping out alien creatures for robots, even though that's what our brains are telling us they most closely resemble. There is probably more to them than that.

And humans are just bigger machines. Self replicating machines at that. Given a high enough degree of technology, I do not see any problems with future "humans" being pretty much any size and shape, completely machine based. The ultimate goal would probably be to create an artificial cellular structure, allowing you to control your body to fit any environment in the universe (need 4 arms for a task? Well then just grow them out). Actually "becoming" a UFO is problematic in the sense that you need a strong propulsion system, but if every human can have that already built in (but not necessarily always used) then why not? Again, its a matter of the degree of technology. If everyone could wear a small fanny pack that enabled you to fly... we would wear them. If it was the size of a house, not so much.

Sure we would loose pretty much everything that makes us human and compress it down the very essence of life - curiousity, evolution, will, etc - but hey you loose some and win some

Seth Shostak still going on about AI aliens.

… any society that invents radio, so we can hear them, within a few centuries, they’ve invented their successors. And I think that’s important, because the successors are machines.

SETI Expert Says Aliens Are Probably Robotic Life Forms

a reply to: merka

Enjoyed reading that post mate and although I don't like keep recommending Sci Fi literature have you read "Diamond Dogs' by Alasdair Reynolds - it's quite a relevant one.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

"In my own case, the study of UFOs and occupant encounters has led me to two predominant interpretations, each at odds with the traditionally accepted Extraterrestrial Hypothesis (ETH). In one scenario, the beings sighted since at least the 1950s (and, if folklore is any indication, long before) are the denizens of an invisible landscape: technologically savvy but impoverished hominids I've dubbed "cryptoterrestrials." In the other, the enduring UFO spectacle is the product of an almost inconceivably ancient machine intelligence not unlike that portrayed in Arthur C. Clarke's 2001"

a reply to: karl 12

The problem here is that almost everybody who has ever claimed to meet an alien has described them as being biological. One witness claiming aliens are biological might be considered an isolated incident, but we're talking tens of thousands of people consistently saying similar things over the course of several decades.

Accounts of machines or robots are extremely rare and inconsistant with each other.

I think that maybe he's simply expressing his own views regarding the movement of human society, and is projecting it on to aliens.

Another delicious Karl gem from the past.

It's a fascinating theory precisely because it's the most likely (and safest!) method humans would use in the far future as an initial exploration of an unknown world.

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: karl 12
The problem here is that almost everybody who has ever claimed to meet an alien has described them as being biological. One witness claiming aliens are biological might be considered an isolated incident, but we're talking tens of thousands of people consistently saying similar things over the course of several decades.

Well, as discussed in another thread this week, only a small number of accounts may be worthy of analysis rather than 10s of 1000s. I think visitations, if genuine, would be few and far between, so we need to focus on the exceptional abduction accounts that go beyond potential dream paralysis and fragrant lies/money-spinning/attention-seeking.

Travis Walton's 1975 case remains very controversial, but the benefit of SIX co-witnesses to the initial 'fire in the sky' UFO sighting is an unusual detail. As for the actual abduction (which I have doubts about), it has been proposed by some that the so-called 'Greys' he encountered were AI machines controlled by other biological entities.

And one of my favourite cases concerns Bob Taylor's 1979 'attempted abduction' in woods by small spherical devices emanating from a much larger sphere. His clothes were ripped by these 'machines' as he fell unconscious, but the case uniquely remains on British Police records as an unsolved physical assault. A purely AI incident? Good thread here.

My theory is that CERN is actually the development of an engine that uses photons as an energy source its replicating something that is a property of a photon for travel or for accessing dimensions

It was a dream I had where an alien that looked like a grey was teaching me how their engines work

They said it works like the LHC

The only thing we'll hear from alien life is "hey Carl, hold my space beer" That's what they said off camera in that Independence day movie before the laser show.

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit
Another delicious Karl gem from the past.

It's a fascinating theory precisely because it's the most likely (and safest!) method humans would use in the far future as an initial exploration of an unknown world.

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: karl 12
The problem here is that almost everybody who has ever claimed to meet an alien has described them as being biological. One witness claiming aliens are biological might be considered an isolated incident, but we're talking tens of thousands of people consistently saying similar things over the course of several decades.

Well, as discussed in another thread this week, only a small number of accounts may be worthy of analysis rather than 10s of 1000s. I think visitations, if genuine, would be few and far between, so we need to focus on the exceptional abduction accounts that go beyond potential dream paralysis and fragrant lies/money-spinning/attention-seeking.

Travis Walton's 1975 case remains very controversial, but the benefit of SIX co-witnesses to the initial 'fire in the sky' UFO sighting is an unusual detail. As for the actual abduction (which I have doubts about), it has been proposed by some that the so-called 'Greys' he encountered were AI machines controlled by other biological entities.

And one of my favourite cases concerns Bob Taylor's 1979 'attempted abduction' in woods by small spherical devices emanating from a much larger sphere. His clothes were ripped by these 'machines' as he fell unconscious, but the case uniquely remains on British Police records as an unsolved physical assault. A purely AI incident? Good thread here.

If you look at a lot of the early accounts, particularly the ones from contatees rather than abductees, we're constant that the aliens are observing us and that they have bases locally. If you look at it earlier reports that many accounts of aliens having bases of facilities on the moon or on other planets in the solar system. Even in orbiting mother ships. in particular if you look at the South American reports there are many accounts of aliens having bases on earth often in plantations in out-of-the-way areas. just look at the way that we do things ultimate team of scientists go to a remote location set up a camp and then spend weeks months or even years studying the area in situations like this you would have lots of reports of contact in a short period of time which is exactly what we had don't think of aliens flying to and from the home planet abducting people bring them back to the home planet and then dropping them back off again think of a dedicated team locally doing experiments is remain rather than having contacts few and far between because of the distance between us and them the distance would be only be covered once and they would simply stay here:

originally posted by: AaarghZombies

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit
Another delicious Karl gem from the past.

It's a fascinating theory precisely because it's the most likely (and safest!) method humans would use in the far future as an initial exploration of an unknown world.

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: karl 12
The problem here is that almost everybody who has ever claimed to meet an alien has described them as being biological. One witness claiming aliens are biological might be considered an isolated incident, but we're talking tens of thousands of people consistently saying similar things over the course of several decades.

Well, as discussed in another thread this week, only a small number of accounts may be worthy of analysis rather than 10s of 1000s. I think visitations, if genuine, would be few and far between, so we need to focus on the exceptional abduction accounts that go beyond potential dream paralysis and fragrant lies/money-spinning/attention-seeking.

Travis Walton's 1975 case remains very controversial, but the benefit of SIX co-witnesses to the initial 'fire in the sky' UFO sighting is an unusual detail. As for the actual abduction (which I have doubts about), it has been proposed by some that the so-called 'Greys' he encountered were AI machines controlled by other biological entities.

And one of my favourite cases concerns Bob Taylor's 1979 'attempted abduction' in woods by small spherical devices emanating from a much larger sphere. His clothes were ripped by these 'machines' as he fell unconscious, but the case uniquely remains on British Police records as an unsolved physical assault. A purely AI incident? Good thread here.

If you look at a lot of the early accounts, particularly the ones from contatees rather than abductees, we're constant that the aliens are observing us and that they have bases locally. If you look at it earlier reports that many accounts of aliens having bases of facilities on the moon or on other planets in the solar system. Even in orbiting mother ships. in particular if you look at the South American reports there are many accounts of aliens having bases on earth often in plantations in out-of-the-way areas. just look at the way that we do things ultimate team of scientists go to a remote location set up a camp and then spend weeks months or even years studying the area in situations like this you would have lots of reports of contact in a short period of time which is exactly what we had don't think of aliens flying to and from the home planet abducting people bring them back to the home planet and then dropping them back off again think of a dedicated team locally doing experiments is remain rather than having contacts few and far between because of the distance between us and them the distance would be only be covered once and they would simply stay here:

twitter.com...

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit

It's a fascinating theory precisely because it's the most likely (and safest!) method humans would use in the far future as an initial exploration of an unknown world.

Happy holidays mate and a festive all the best, when looking into this subject the Bob Taylor incident popped into my head as well - also thought Mac Tonnies raised an extremely intriguing point in this quote about 'fairie lore' and there are many, many similarities between it and UFO abductions (and Missing 411).

"In one scenario, the beings sighted since at least the 1950s (and, if folklore is any indication, long before) are the denizens of an invisible landscape: technologically savvy but impoverished hominids I've dubbed "cryptoterrestrials."

Cheers with eggnog

I think it possible that they are just advanced humans from the future

Or

Their lineage is so long that they are unable to procreate, resulting in experimentation on humans to continue their bloodlines.

One thing for certain, we are not alone.

a reply to: Blue Shift

If it's an organic entity designed by (humans) is it a machine or a being?

originally posted by: karl 12

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit

It's a fascinating theory precisely because it's the most likely (and safest!) method humans would use in the far future as an initial exploration of an unknown world.

Happy holidays mate and a festive all the best, when looking into this subject the Bob Taylor incident popped into my head as well - also thought Mac Tonnies raised an extremely intriguing point in this quote about 'fairie lore' and there are many, many similarities between it and UFO abductions (and Missing 411).

"In one scenario, the beings sighted since at least the 1950s (and, if folklore is any indication, long before) are the denizens of an invisible landscape: technologically savvy but impoverished hominids I've dubbed "cryptoterrestrials."

Cheers with eggnog

With the varied reports over the years, specifically encounters of the third kind, think of events like the Flatwoods monster for example, it is entirely possible that some craft are AI while others do require manual control.

In summary, is this evidence of multiple race types visiting earth?

Why trust an AI robot machine to do a biological sentient entity's job?

Maybe I just have a prejudice against AI machines...or maybe I've seen to many reruns of "Terminator Judgement Day"..

originally posted by: karl 12
Great reading (sourced by StringTheory)

THEY'RE MADE OUT OF MEAT


"They're made out of meat."

"Meat?"

"Meat. They're made out of meat."

"Meat?"

"There's no doubt about it. We picked up several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, and probed them all the way through. They're completely meat."

"That's impossible. What about the radio signals? The messages to the stars?"

"They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don't come from them. The signals come from machines."

"So who made the machines? That's who we want to contact."

"They made the machines. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Meat made the machines."

"That's ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You're asking me to believe in sentient meat."

"I'm not asking you, I'm telling you. These creatures are the only sentient race in that sector and they're made out of meat."

"Maybe they're like the orfolei. You know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage."

"Nope. They're born meat and they die meat. We studied them for several of their life spans, which didn't take long. Do you have any idea what's the life span of meat?"

"Spare me. Okay, maybe they're only part meat. You know, like the weddilei. A meat head with an electron plasma brain inside."

"Nope. We thought of that, since they do have meat heads, like the weddilei. But I told you, we probed them. They're meat all the way through."

"No brain?"

"Oh, there's a brain all right. It's just that the brain is made out of meat! That's what I've been trying to tell you."

"So ... what does the thinking?"

"You're not understanding, are you? You're refusing to deal with what I'm telling you. The brain does the thinking. The meat."

"Thinking meat! You're asking me to believe in thinking meat!"

"Yes, thinking meat! Conscious meat! Loving meat. Dreaming meat. The meat is the whole deal! Are you beginning to get the picture or do I have to start all over?"

"Omigod. You're serious then. They're made out of meat."

"Thank you. Finally. Yes. They are indeed made out of meat. And they've been trying to get in touch with us for almost a hundred of their years."

"Omigod. So what does this meat have in mind?"

"First it wants to talk to us. Then I imagine it wants to explore the Universe, contact other sentiences, swap ideas and information. The usual."

"We're supposed to talk to meat."

"That's the idea. That's the message they're sending out by radio. 'Hello. Anyone out there. Anybody home.' That sort of thing."

"They actually do talk, then. They use words, ideas, concepts?"
"Oh, yes. Except they do it with meat."

"I thought you just told me they used radio."

"They do, but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds. You know how when you slap or flap meat, it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their meat."

"Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much. So what do you advise?"

"Officially or unofficially?"

"Both."

"Officially, we are required to contact, welcome and log in any and all sentient races or multibeings in this quadrant of the Universe, without prejudice, fear or favor. Unofficially, I advise that we erase the records and forget the whole thing."

"I was hoping you would say that."

"It seems harsh, but there is a limit. Do we really want to make contact with meat?"

"I agree one hundred percent. What's there to say? 'Hello, meat. How's it going?' But will this work? How many planets are we dealing with here?"

"Just one. They can travel to other planets in special meat containers, but they can't live on them. And being meat, they can only travel through C space. Which limits them to the speed of light and makes the possibility of their ever making contact pretty slim. Infinitesimal, in fact."

"So we just pretend there's no one home in the Universe."

"That's it."

"Cruel. But you said it yourself, who wants to meet meat? And the ones who have been aboard our vessels, the ones you probed? You're sure they won't remember?"

"They'll be considered crackpots if they do. We went into their heads and smoothed out their meat so that we're just a dream to them."

"A dream to meat! How strangely appropriate, that we should be meat's dream."

"And we marked the entire sector unoccupied."

"Good. Agreed, officially and unofficially. Case closed. Any others? Anyone interesting on that side of the galaxy?"

"Yes, a rather shy but sweet hydrogen core cluster intelligence in a class nine star in G445 zone. Was in contact two galactic rotations ago, wants to be friendly again."

"They always come around."

"And why not? Imagine how unbearably, how unutterably cold the Universe would be if one were all alone ..."

link

Bumping because this is the best.

This most excellent author Terry Bisson passed away January 10th, 2024. RIP

For those who haven’t read this I hope you enjoy.

www.mit.edu...