Workers Win Fight For Living Wage, Then Lose Jobs

reply to post by DCPatriot


We have an entire generation of Americans who blame the corporations for our current condition. They don't blame the politicians who released the chains that bind corporations.

I don't blame a snake for biting me. That is what snakes do. Corporations are supposed to seek out money. They are supposed to return the investments made in them. The politicians have not changed that as a law. What they DID change was the regulatory environment in a way that has gutted the middle class (creating all these disaffected and angry kids) and fattened the bottom line.

Why not? They get jobs and stock options, too. And they fatten their own bottom line, too. And I guarantee you this: every single person who espouses the "blame the corporation" mentality will vote for a Democrat in the next election cycle. Because they are not smart enough to figure out that the Democrats are who really started the recent decline in American stablity. It was Clinton's NAFTA that really marks the beginning of the end for us.

No, they instead will blame "those greedy Republicans". Not that the GOP is any better. Brown crap is the same as dark brown crap. SH# is SH#.

What really brings me shame is that people keep voting for them. Any of them. All of them. Even on ATS, where "alternative" thinking is supposed to be more prevalent. The useful idiots all line up in their two teams an shout taunts at each other. If you step back an look at it, it goes beyond ridiculous. Still just primates, just with fancier social nuances.

Hoosierdaddy71
I can tell you that as a business owner (5 employees) if I had to double their wages they would be unemployed. Simple as that.
The idea of a living wage crazy also. Prices are based off the minimum wage. If mcdonalds has to pay workers $12 an hour, they will compensate by making Big Macs $9. Then your living wage will still not be enough because of price increases. Every action has a reaction.

so your employees have to suffer because YOU are too incompetent to run a profitable business if it requires paying a living wage and/or you are competing with people half way across the world who will work for two dollars a day...... sounds fair to me

mcdonalds doesnt have to raise the price of the bigmac to remain profitable.... you have simply allowed them the leverage to raise their prices rather than take a hit on their disgustingly inflated profits.... again the employees should suffer because mcdonalds is run by morally deficient turds? and people wonder how we find ourselves caught in this downward spiral
oh wait i forgot its because of those damned employees trying to make enough money (off the labor they provide that allows these companies to thrive) to actually live on

The thing the company did was a soft let-down to deal with their "problem" employees. It's better for PR than a firing and re-hiring. The people laid off can still file for unemployment. Now watch, in another six months or so there will be yet another restaurant with a different name but the same parent company doing the same business.

Now on the topic of the current crap-tastic economic situation. If those making laws and regulation really wanted to fix the economic disparity, perhaps all minimum wage earners should get a housing stipend which is indexed to their localized regional cost of living. This would be paid for with taxes on the stock exchanges. That should help move capital into circulation from those that profit off a lot of resources without doing anything that could honestly be considered productive. Particularly in terms of serving the needs of the most people. Now, is everyone happy!? (Of course that'll never happen.)

Kangaruex4Ewe

HanzHenry
IF the rich don't want to pay a living wage. FINE,

don't let THEM make ANY profit..

And next hopefully people will find ways to destroy them. When 10 hungry unemployed people KNOW the rich guy has food. Hopefully they will take the rich out.

If everyone cant be rich then die fighting and making sure NOONE is.

With all due respect.... That is ridiculous and I felt a bit ridiculous reading it.

This line of thinking is becoming more popular by the day, yet most who espouse it never bother to put themselves in the "Rich Man's" shoes.

Imagine being born dirt poor. You work hard, you study hard, fate smiles down on you and gifts you with the ingenious idea of a self wringing cat bikini. You gamble your house, your savings, and the beginnings of your children's college funds to make this prototype in hopes of selling it for ( que Dr. Evil's voice here) 1 Million Dollars.

The panel loves it and agrees to go into production with you. QVC smells a winner and gives you an hour long spot to do your thing. The self wringing cat bikini explodes and they can't keep it on the shelves. You are suddenly living like Scrooge McDuck and swimming in your massive amount of income. You are forever thankful. You remember what it was like to be so poor but you worked hard for what you wanted and IT PAID OFF.

The doorbell rings... Who is that you ask? It's the meth addicted homeless man from down the street who beat his wife to death 15 years prior. He never had a work ethic in his life. He fathered child after child and never paid support. He steals from your neighbors to support his habit since he has no income of his own. Matter of fact he has never had a source of steady income the state did not provide. While you were working your arse off, he was sleeping till noon, knocking up every girl he could find, and sucking the system dry. What on earth could he want?

YOUR MONEY... Now give him half of it and be ok with that.

edit on 1/15/2014 by Kangaruex4Ewe because: (no reason given)

"A man never earned a million dollars honestly. " it was true when William Bryan's said it in 1920 and it still is. You'd have a lot fewer "socialists" if rich people actually earned what they have. They didn't.

bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by DCPatriot

 

We have an entire generation of Americans who blame the corporations for our current condition. They don't blame the politicians who released the chains that bind corporations.

I don't blame a snake for biting me. That is what snakes do. Corporations are supposed to seek out money. They are supposed to return the investments made in them. The politicians have not changed that as a law. What they DID change was the regulatory environment in a way that has gutted the middle class (creating all these disaffected and angry kids) and fattened the bottom line.

Why not? They get jobs and stock options, too. And they fatten their own bottom line, too. And I guarantee you this: every single person who espouses the "blame the corporation" mentality will vote for a Democrat in the next election cycle. Because they are not smart enough to figure out that the Democrats are who really started the recent decline in American stablity. It was Clinton's NAFTA that really marks the beginning of the end for us.

No, they instead will blame "those greedy Republicans". Not that the GOP is any better. Brown crap is the same as dark brown crap. SH# is SH#.

What really brings me shame is that people keep voting for them. Any of them. All of them. Even on ATS, where "alternative" thinking is supposed to be more prevalent. The useful idiots all line up in their two teams an shout taunts at each other. If you step back an look at it, it goes beyond ridiculous. Still just primates, just with fancier social nuances.

ok
who is worse the corrupt or those who corrupted them?
the puppet or the puppet master?
not saying politicians are innocent... on the contrary they are a huge part of the problem but they are not in fact the core of the problem

teslahowitzer
reply to post by Cabin

 

Holy crap, when does the next boat leave for this wonderland? and for the love of god, where is the immigration line? People, why the hell is this dump of a life in america still the most sought after???? BS may get you far in some places......If you cant make a living and support yourself YOU are doing something wrong, the sooner you get that the better you will be....Tell the next immigrant from bulgaria how bad your life is in america....

This is a myth. The U.S. has not been the most sought after immigration country in MANY years. Even our immigration from Mexico reached net-zero last year. This isn't the America you grew up. Scandinavian countries is where it's at, and their immigration rates show it too.

wildtimes
This is interesting. I've been thinking about it lately. Now, I'm no economist, but I do run a household with a balanced budget.
We live on one decent income, and share the burdens, a traditional situation. So, we are not "rich" - not in the 1%, by any means.

With that said, this is what it seems to me:
McDonalds is the example I'll use. They pay their staff minimum wage; not enough to live on, even with two earners in a household. That household earns little enough that they qualify for.....FOOD ASSISTANCE. McD's even tells them, "Don't eat this food - it's unhealthy; or, break your food up into smaller pieces. This isn't supposed to be a career."

Fine. But don't you see, people? The workers at McD's make it run - it is an incredibly profitable business; I'm not going to look up gross revenue or profits, since we all know that McD's is, and has been, lucrative for the owners. They have tax breaks, off-shore havens, all the Globe-trotting Corporate Personhood perks of every other major global corp.

But - guess who is SHORING UP those workers' wages enough that they can eat and have housing?
TAXPAYERS. McD's screws the system coming AND going. But no one wants to see that it is the taxpayers - the rest of the nation, we consumers - who are paying part of the "Wage" that means the workers can keep working there...

This is socialized corporatocracy, I guess. Nah, you don't have to pay them much - keep as much profit off-shore as you can, hide it away - the people who pay TAXES are the ones who have to bail out the employees that can't sustain their LIVES on this wage - but who cares!!???? Hahahahahaha!!!! Screw them! Screw the government, too!!

The private sector bitches and moans about "taxes" - while the working people struggle, and ALSO pay taxes to subsidize the employees of McDs.

Can someone please tell me how that is "clean business" - the taxpayers have to bail out racketeer banks, and ALSO the working poor - yet everyone who is a 'capitalist' wants to keep their money hidden away and not contribute their FAIR SHARE to the FAIR UPKEEP of their employees.

We are taxed when we earn it, and taxed when we spend it, and taxed when corporate "accountants" say 'screw them - the govt will bail them out - and bail US out, too!"

I don't know if I'm making sense or not. I just got out of bed - but I wish I'd never left Norway when I went there 19 years ago for a visit.

I hear you loud and clear. I wish I had never left Sweden in 2007. I had an opportunity to attend college there for next to nothing even as U.S. citizen.

As far as large corporations, I'd like to see it make a dent in McDonald's profit if their CEO walked out for a day, compared to if all the minimum wage workers in the world walked out for a day. Then talk to me about how important your workers are. Every McDonalds worker in the world would make $50 the next day when they came back to work and the shareholders would be thrilled to pay it.

There was a time when employees were looked upon as assets to a company. Today they are seen as nothing more than a liability. Disgusting.

reply to post by sirhumperdink


Wow! You really got it figured out dont you.. Thats sarcasm..
First of all i run a profitable business, and I pay a living wage to my (skilled labor). Do you still think I can just double their pay? When you get to mcdonalds tonight to work your shift on the fryer, tell them how to run their restraunt.

Now please define disgustingly inflated profits..
Don't give me a huge dollor amount like everybody does with oil companies either. I want to know what percent of profit is acceptable to you 5% ,8%, 10%. If you don't understand that it means how much money are they allowed to make on a dollor.

sirhumperdink

bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by DCPatriot

 

We have an entire generation of Americans who blame the corporations for our current condition. They don't blame the politicians who released the chains that bind corporations.

I don't blame a snake for biting me. That is what snakes do. Corporations are supposed to seek out money. They are supposed to return the investments made in them. The politicians have not changed that as a law. What they DID change was the regulatory environment in a way that has gutted the middle class (creating all these disaffected and angry kids) and fattened the bottom line.

Why not? They get jobs and stock options, too. And they fatten their own bottom line, too. And I guarantee you this: every single person who espouses the "blame the corporation" mentality will vote for a Democrat in the next election cycle. Because they are not smart enough to figure out that the Democrats are who really started the recent decline in American stablity. It was Clinton's NAFTA that really marks the beginning of the end for us.

No, they instead will blame "those greedy Republicans". Not that the GOP is any better. Brown crap is the same as dark brown crap. SH# is SH#.

What really brings me shame is that people keep voting for them. Any of them. All of them. Even on ATS, where "alternative" thinking is supposed to be more prevalent. The useful idiots all line up in their two teams an shout taunts at each other. If you step back an look at it, it goes beyond ridiculous. Still just primates, just with fancier social nuances.

ok
who is worse the corrupt or those who corrupted them?
the puppet or the puppet master?
not saying politicians are innocent... on the contrary they are a huge part of the problem but they are not in fact the core of the problem

"Worse" are the American people who let it happen without raising holy hell. The politicians are accountable to US. But we let them answer to THEM instead.

bigfatfurrytexan

sirhumperdink

bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by DCPatriot

 

We have an entire generation of Americans who blame the corporations for our current condition. They don't blame the politicians who released the chains that bind corporations.

I don't blame a snake for biting me. That is what snakes do. Corporations are supposed to seek out money. They are supposed to return the investments made in them. The politicians have not changed that as a law. What they DID change was the regulatory environment in a way that has gutted the middle class (creating all these disaffected and angry kids) and fattened the bottom line.

Why not? They get jobs and stock options, too. And they fatten their own bottom line, too. And I guarantee you this: every single person who espouses the "blame the corporation" mentality will vote for a Democrat in the next election cycle. Because they are not smart enough to figure out that the Democrats are who really started the recent decline in American stablity. It was Clinton's NAFTA that really marks the beginning of the end for us.

No, they instead will blame "those greedy Republicans". Not that the GOP is any better. Brown crap is the same as dark brown crap. SH# is SH#.

What really brings me shame is that people keep voting for them. Any of them. All of them. Even on ATS, where "alternative" thinking is supposed to be more prevalent. The useful idiots all line up in their two teams an shout taunts at each other. If you step back an look at it, it goes beyond ridiculous. Still just primates, just with fancier social nuances.

ok
who is worse the corrupt or those who corrupted them?
the puppet or the puppet master?
not saying politicians are innocent... on the contrary they are a huge part of the problem but they are not in fact the core of the problem

"Worse" are the American people who let it happen without raising holy hell. The politicians are accountable to US. But we let them answer to THEM instead.

by not limiting the ability of these companies to affect legislation (and i agree the populace shares a large portion of responsibility as well)
again who is more at fault here the entity that failed to address a problem or the entity that caused the problem

think of it like this if there is a rapist or murderer (maybe thief is a better example) on the loose doing as they please do you blame everyone else for not preventing their actions or do you hold them accountable for their abominable deeds?

reply to post by sirhumperdink


Corporations are not individuals. If they acted within the letter of the law, I don't blame them. I blame the people who changed the laws that allowed us to be raped in the first place.

bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by sirhumperdink

 

Corporations are not individuals. If they acted within the letter of the law, I don't blame them. I blame the people who changed the laws that allowed us to be raped in the first place.

says the owner of an llc
no conflict of interest here

oblvion
reply to post by ownbestenemy

 

You are absolutely right in saying the workers make the company.

Thanks for acknowledging this obvious fact.

How hard (or maybe easy) is it for you to contort facts to fit your narrative? I acknowledged nothing of the sort, except in your mind I have.

Take Walmart, the most profitable company on the planet, remove all hourly employees, what is its revenue next year? .......exactly zero.

Now remove all owners and management install minimal staff to secure supply chain in same situation, the company is still profitable and viable.

My guess is that you haven't obtained anything higher than stocking shelves then. Do you think any Joe that is stocking the shelves could maintain the inventory management that Walmart has? How about Amazon, do you think the person who has only demonstrated the skills to put boxes on a shelf, be able to run and maintain probably one of the largest inventories in the world?

Not one company can survive without the little guy doing the work, all companies can survive without almost all execs and managers.

I think we are on to a new reality show. I wish I had the funding for it because I guarentee that unless it is a "diamond in the rough", if we removed "execs and managers" (even though, they too are employees), companies would fall.

Why can't you see the obvious.

Apparently you can't either because you are not willing to listen to any views other than those that you have entrenched yourself into.

Corporations exist to better mans existance, through goods and services, not to fill a worthless bloated rich guys bank account.

That is interesting....

You my friend are saying the king deserves all the resources, because he is king.

Nope, never said nor implied. My guess is your projecting.

You can't really think this current system is working for anyone but the elite if there is a brain cell in your head.

Never said it was working on a macro level. I was looking at specific examples given.

People drive their corporate made cars filled with conglomerate refined gas to nation wide chain store Starbucks. All the while texting on their mass produced cell phones and surfing the World Wide Web on their internationally built tablets. Then they complain about big business. Thats to funny..

sirhumperdink

bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by sirhumperdink

 

Corporations are not individuals. If they acted within the letter of the law, I don't blame them. I blame the people who changed the laws that allowed us to be raped in the first place.

says the owner of an llc
no conflict of interest here

edit on 17-1-2014 by sirhumperdink because: (no reason given)

I don't own an llc. I manage the busienss that the owner has. I am not wealthy by any stretch of anyones imagination, other than maybe a homeless man. I have influence in my community, but that isn't because of money. Its because I am smart, and people like to utilize that. I do work that typically carries a college degree as a prerequisite. I like the challenge, and I find people crazy enough to give it to me. I speak of my experience because I have traded my abilities with lack of experience and a lower pay rate. I know itll pay off in the end, and couldn't do the college thing like most people.

The fact of the matter is that there used to be laws in place to restrict business. We had taxes in place to level the playing field with foreign products. Politicians were the only people in the entire world with the power to change those laws and remove those tariffs. And they did it. And then when they did it, the American people rewarded them by continuing to vote for them. It isn't even consent through silence. We actively voted for and supported them.

Same with Iraq and the rest of the mess we have made over there. We actually re-elected the man who did it.

The politicians are the dirty, traitorous bastards. They are the ones who were supposed to do different. Not corporations, who are (by law) required to seek out the greatest profits by operating up to and within the confines of the law. That is what they are supposed to do. The politicians, they are supposed to vote for laws in the best interest of The People. They are the ones who failed.

Then The People gave them a positive performance appraisal by re-electing them. The only entity involved here that acted as it was supposed to are corporations. They are capable of great evil, and we know it. And we allowed them to be unleashed. Yet you blame them?

bigfatfurrytexan
The only entity involved here that acted as it was supposed to are corporations.

no.... no they did not
and your depiction of corporations as greedy power hungery A holes that have to be kept in line with a whip illustrates deeper problems within our economic system

They are capable of great evil, and we know it. And we allowed them to be unleashed. Yet you blame them?

yes....yes i do
i blame the corporations i blame the populace and i blame the politicians
there is more than enough blame to go around
and your assertion that corporations are somehow innocent because they should be expected to behave in a despicable manner is ridiculous

but yeah lets not blame the thing that by its very nature appears to be an oppressive force

OpinionatedB
reply to post by wildtimes

 

I dont think one minimum wage income is enough to support two people. That wasn't what I was saying. When it was only me and minimum wage, I paid all my bills and ate, even sent money to others from time to time.

When it was completely supporting two people, I was running short. (donated plasma to make it through that time) But... when two people are on minimum wage both of them, there is plenty for both to live, and even better than just one alone. (ie: you can then save money and eat out occasionally etc.)

As far as a car, no, you shouldn't finance a car anyway just to throw money away on interest. This is part of living within your means. While working, two people on minimum wage can save up for a car. And having a savings is important anyway for those times when bad things happen, like your car breaks down or other unforeseeable events. I spent a thousand dollars and did not have any income for a month, if I had saved that money instead, and worked instead of taking a month off, we would have plenty in the bank for a cheap car. (saw one the other day for 1,300.00 that was in good running condition)

We do the same as you, we are very frugal with our money (with the possible exception of what foods we eat, because lots of times I am in too much pain to cook much... but that goes to my disability) We buy clothes at thrift stores and sales.

But when you are frugal it is a good thing..Even when I had money I shopped at thrift stores for the kid's school clothes, and yes, this was even when I was a multi millionaire in my own right. (yes, lol... life does happen! hahaha... but when it does you just start again, perhaps better the second time, and with much more knowledge)

I don't think minimum wage is a bad income, its very low, but its doable, and it should never be forever for anyone... but as a place to start. I don't blame any CEO for rising to his position or having their money, nor do I feel like they should have to share with me.

edit on 16-1-2014 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)

Wow so you really think it is okay that in the "greatest country in the world" that you had to donate blood to make it? Seriously?

As far as saving up for a car, please tell me how to save up for a car when you have no car to get to a job to pay you to save up. Financing is the only option some people have. It's not like we are Sweden and actally have public transportation.

jjkenobi
Not every menial job deserves a living wage. People need to go out and obtain skills that will make them more valuable to a business. Hundreds of millions of Americans make more than living wage. How is that possible with all the "evil greedy" businesses out there? Because the employees made themselves valuable. Carrying a tray of food doesn't cut it. Putting french fries into a bag doesn't cut it. Those are transitional jobs you work while you obtain new and more valuable skills.

I don't want to live in this country anymore. You are always going to need someone to carry those trays and put those fries in a bag. Those people don't deserve a living wage? Disgusting. I think im done with this thread.

sirhumperdink
no.... no they did not
and your depiction of corporations as greedy power hungery A holes that have to be kept in line with a whip illustrates deeper problems within our economic system

By law, yes they did. We are talking about legal responsibility. That is the way the world works here. The law dictates corporate responsibility. And executives can be sued, personally, for failing to uphold their required owner interest. The corporation that doesn't take advantage of new law changes is the corporation that will have all its executives sued or fired (or both) for failure to uphold their duty.

And it may indicate the deeper problem you propose. But I am not able to solve all the worlds problems. If you have a solution (that hasn't already failed in the past) I would be interested in hearing it. But, barring that, I am talking about analysis of what has happened in the past, and how we got to where we are today.

They are capable of great evil, and we know it. And we allowed them to be unleashed. Yet you blame them?
yes....yes i do
i blame the corporations i blame the populace and a blame the politicians
there is more than enough blame to go around
and your assertion that corporations are somehow innocent because they should be expected to behave in a despicable manner is ridiculous

but yeah lets not blame the thing that by its very nature appears to be an oppressive force

edit on 17-1-2014 by sirhumperdink because: (no reason given)

They are innocent because they acted within the law, as they are required to do. If you find corporations who acted outside the law, then lets string them up. I am all for that (start with banks, who we KNOW have violated the law and had it overlooked). But for the corporations to act poorly, laws were changed for the purpose of allowing them to act poorly. Had we not been betrayed by every last DC official, that situation would not have been created. The laws are the rules that business operates within. Altruism is legally not allowed. Donated monies, etc, from corporations are expected to have an ROI, or they will cost the person authorizing them their job. Because not firing that person creates liability that creates lawsuits.

Anonex

jjkenobi
Not every menial job deserves a living wage. People need to go out and obtain skills that will make them more valuable to a business. Hundreds of millions of Americans make more than living wage. How is that possible with all the "evil greedy" businesses out there? Because the employees made themselves valuable. Carrying a tray of food doesn't cut it. Putting french fries into a bag doesn't cut it. Those are transitional jobs you work while you obtain new and more valuable skills.

I don't want to live in this country anymore. You are always going to need someone to carry those trays and put those fries in a bag. Those people don't deserve a living wage? Disgusting. I think im done with this thread.

edit on 17-1-2014 by Anonex because: to add another line.

Since you are so well versed in how a business is run, then please enlighten us. I would LOVE to see a business model for any service business where you can have all employees paid "a living wage" (which is, I believe, variable by region). ill eagerly await it.