A Teesside Taxi Firm refuses to Take Disabled Passengers, Over Fares Row

reply to post by kyviecaldges


You have to catch them doing it, its easy to say your busy, but this guy the article is about admitted they overcharged his disabled customers, he will have his hackney licence removed

reply to post by pavmas


Personally I don't have any contract work.

kyviecaldges
reply to post by pavmas

 

I think we have lost our humanity.

But why should businesses be forced to placate another person's view of humanity.

That is a platitude.

It's totally subjective.

This is a slippery slope. It's no different than forcing a baker to make a wedding cake for a gay couple.

Why do you feel the need to force your perspective on others?

Have you ever read 'Island'?

In the book when someone is disabled and they do not contribute, at all, to the greater good of society and everyone is forced to cater to them then a government individual is sent to their house to tell them this harsh truth and give them the option of suicide.
Should that be illegal as well? What about the rights of those who have to completely change their schedule to cater to someone?

Is that not discrimination?

Should it be illegal for, let's say me... for me to have the opinion that the disabled are a complete drain on society and of no use?
Sure... it's heartless, evil and immoral, but should it be ILLEGAL?

Where do you draw the line?

You really dont know a great deal about how it works over here

Gay snub Cornish B&B owners lose Supreme Court appeal

Im going out on limb here because its bed time for me

True British people do not consider disabled people a complete drain on society and of no use and most of us enjoy the feeling we get when we do that little extra to help someone out especially if that person is less fortunate than ourselves. people like Mohammed Bashir are and never will be a true British citizen because they have no intention of being, this is why they have no respect for our laws they are only interested in taking as much as they can and will not ever give anything back to the wider comunity wich does include a few disabled people they are only interested in looking after those who have the same mindset as themselves

these people should be boycotted completley and we as a people should be taking care of own
Off to bed looking forward to the backlash

kyviecaldges
reply to post by Shiloh7

 

Having to deal with the public as a taxi driver is his chosen daily job. Boo hoo! he has to occasionally work a bit harder for his cash but that's life. - anyone else expect their work to never require any extra effort at times?

But why do you want to FORCE him to do something that he doesn't want to do.

The entire idea behind capitalism is that if he chooses to do a poor job then he will not have customers.

The free market can decide this... the government doesn't need to do this.

It seems to me like this is more about forcing a perspective than about actually solving an issue.

Because business owners will simply close up shop and then no one will have a taxi.
And then everyone goes crying to the government for help.

Why not just solve the problem.
Pull up the proverbial boot straps and be a man.

edit on 12/1/2014 by kyviecaldges because: Because I made a stupid error. That is why we edit.

Once one applies for a public service license, sadly for Mr Bashir, like everyone else who has a similar license, he is bound by its rules, otherwise, its one rule for Bashirbaby and another for everyone else - is that vaguely capitalistic enough for you? The greedy guy at the top making money without any obligation to follow the same rules his competitors have to follow.

The government passed laws on our treating everyone equally, which most agree with, unless perhaps you don't.

I don't feel we can ignore the disabled because its how we look after each other that is an important part of our society. I don't want certain standards of care to drop any lower, despite our capitalist government's efforts to cut the public services that our taxes pay for.

As he is clearly doing a poor service by leaving our disabled and making their lives harder, hopefully he will find his business suffers due to his bad publicity and if he goes out of business - so what- the companies that do honour their obligations with their business licenses will simply pick up the business his drivers aren't doing anymore. Men like him should not be in public service, perhaps he should try a bank?

Taxi driving today is low skilled, if you can drive, can use a taxi and pass the necessary CRB checks etc off you go so I don't see any risk of taxis becoming a thing of the past - just the low calibre of some of the people working within it.

Perhaps its not me that needs to pull up the bootstraps to be a mature man?

dam00
I agree with what you are saying but we are talking about equality, who would pay the extra for these people ? I except that many people who are disabled probably earn the same money as the rest of us, but what about those that dont we have to be fair and equal and if they are charged more for not being able to do the things the rest of us can, then that is discrimination which isnt allowed in the uk
tough tough situation
I cant see the authorities saying yes its ok, all public buildings and even newly built houses have to have disabled access now at a cost to the owner

Thanks for your interest in my thread and thankyou for your comments

Bottom line is if there is additional services needed then they can charge for it. Works that way in most businesses so im not sure why its a big deal. I know in the states there are companies that only handle the disabled they are certified for emergencies and everything. Yes they pay more but the level of service is much higher and safer i might add. And no matter what it will always require more time and drivers make money off their time.The sad part is this company was providing a service that is probably hard to find im sure taxis made excuses as to why they couldn't do it ect and this just limited their choices. As long as this company let them know the costs of hiring the mini bus before hand i don't see a problem with it.Because i guess most people continued to use there service i guess.

reply to post by dam00

You really dont know a great deal about how it works over here

Yes... I believe that I stated that exact same thing.

True British people do not consider disabled people a complete drain on society...

You ever heard of the logical fallacy called the no true scotsman?
Obviously not.

No True Scotsman is a logical fallacy by which an individual attempts to avoid being associated with an unpleasant act by asserting that no true member of the group they belong to would do such a thing. Instead of acknowledging that some members of a group have undesirable characteristics, the fallacy tries to redefine the group to exclude them.

link to source.

... people like Mohammed Bashir are and never will be a true British citizen

SEE PREVIOUS LOGICAL FALLACY

these people should be boycotted completley and we as a people should be taking care of own

I think that is what I have been saying from the beginning.

No backlash, but pardon me if I point the flaws in you logic and reasoning.

reply to post by pavmas

dirty fking bastards. you are paid by milage thats what you are paid for so how the fvk can you charge more because they are disabled.

I'm "disabled". I have no problem understanding why I should pay for any service requiring a taxi driver to get out of their seat. More energy and time is equal to more money. Why do some people expect otherwise? Personally, I won't work a job whenever the energy and time has a greater value than the pay.

reply to post by kyviecaldges


Perhaps you don't realise that the UK is different from the USA in how we are governed and the UK's Welfare State? I will try to give a slight overview. (my objection to his behaviour is in fairness more what I see as exploiting a vulnerable sector of our society)

Our Government passes laws that cover everyone and the Equality or Anti Discrimination laws if abused can mean one ends up in jail. There is no negotiating with the Government if one doesn't like them and few probably would want to. I won't comment further although there are a few points others have raised which I suspect apply to the whinger in question.

The Welfare State in this country has a long tradition of caring for the sick and disabled and we have paid our taxes for this service since 1948 so it is an important part of our culture.

Operating 'in tandem' with the Welfare State, each Local Authority governs the By Laws which define the obligations and regulations anyone obtaining a license to eg operate a taxi service to all members of the public must abide by. They also set and monitor the meter in the taxi which governs the lawful rate you may charge for a fare. If you apply and are granted a License, of which only a number are available etc, you are given the choice, either you agree to follow the regulations and you get your license or you do not agree and so you are not granted it.

The choices you think should be there etc were never there in the first place and Mr Basher knew this. This guy, if he has charged over his meter's legal rate may well be prosecuted for fraud etc and breaking the Bye Laws as well as the Anti-Discrimination Laws of the land. He may find he no longer has a business and the future may not look too prosperous inside jail.

Perhaps the conversation should be about EQUIVALENCE rather than EQUALITY.
The wheelchair bound individual may not validly be considered to be equal to able bodied folk.
The private taxi business is in no way equal to public transportation, although highly regulated by the "state".

I've spent much time in taxis, limo, town car, shuttle, bus and "regular" public transportation (subway/bus) due to my business travel.
None of it in the UK unfortunately, so this may not be applicable.

Taxi rates in my youth were a fascination because of the odd charges: initial ride fee, mileage (cents per 1/10 mile), extra baggage, extra passengers - and then there was WAIT TIME, time spent waiting on traffic or the customer.
It was easy to see there were buttons on the meter for passengers, stops, extras (bags) and the initial ride fee posted as soon as the meter activated. I surmised that if no mileage was being posted the meter would add an incremental charge - the only variable is when the cabman decides to turn the meter on and off.

With what we've heard from our UK taxi members about the time spent with wheelchair bound customers, it would seem to me that charging the "wait time" fee for loading and unloading would somewhat relieve the burden of providing service to disabled individuals. The business problem is to provide "equal access" to services without being discriminitory or predatory - and to receive equivalent payment based on standard charges.

If this at all possible in the UK?

ganjoa

Seems to be a great deal of ignorance among the posters on here regarding taxis.

Firstly the only types of vehicle allowed to become taxis now are wheelchair accessible vehicles. There is no choice in the matter in my area. The only other type of vehicle permitted is a hybrid car such as a toyota prius. In my case I couldnt afford a prius. It was cheaper to get a minibus.

I'm fairly new to being an operator. before that I drove for other companies and it is the other companies I worked for policy to avoid picking up wheelchairs too often. They dont avoid them all the time but keep it to minimum.

As for the disabled customers themselves not all expect to get the service for the same money as able bodied. Some of them do recognise and appreciate the effort put in and tip well. Obviously they are going to get a taxi anytime they want one. The others will find it more difficult especially at busy times.

To the poster who thinks I shud be kept away from disabled people let me say that one particular lady customer I had always for me by name because I gave her very special attention which I picked up from being a nurse. So I dont think your assessment of me is correct.

Another point I would make is that the local council has authorised me to make a £40 charge to anyone who messes up my vehicle. That could be somebody being sick in the van or wetting themselves. Now usually that sort of thing would be a result of too much drink, but not always. I had guy recently who was violently sick several times on the way home from eating out. He had eaten something that he was allergic to, oysters i think, and this made him sick. Thankfully non of it ended up in my taxi but if it had then I could charge £40 extra because of the extra effort I would need to make to clean the van. So the guy didnt choose to be sick and yet he could be charged. Isnt that a contradiction. Disabled people cant be charged but sick people can ? Same would go for somebody with a continence problem.

Hypothetical situation, I have somebody in a wheelchair in my taxi and they are sick ..... can I charge them £40 ?

bigyin
reply to post by pavmas

 

Personally I don't have any contract work.

or soul

reply to post by bigyin


Well let me explain this to you. most of my life I was a brick layer.

Sometimes people would not grasp the plans and it could take a little longer, but each person is different.

Some Jobs the householder would have a delivery say of roof tiles and let them dump them where we would be working, we would have to hand move them just 10 ft away which took take 3 of us 2 hours.

Not once did I charge a householder for time moving materials that should not have been in my way.

In the work place delays happen thats part and parcel of the working.

I have built garages for taxi drivers
Not once have I charged a taxi driver more for the hold up caused by him working late and parking his taxi on the drive where we are meant to be working, i would have a cup of tea and give him time to get up to move it.

Delays happen in the workplace.

To charge people because they are disabled and take longer stinks.

reply to post by ganjoa


Mate they but the meter on when they pull up at the door, so if they take 3 mins to load a chair the passenger pays.

Lets take a further look, when you are sitting in traffic the meter ticks over and you are charged waiting time,

Why, you are paying to go to A to B so why pay to be sitting still.

If taxi drivers want to charge disabled more because it takes longer then why should we pay extra sitting in traffic.

Oh my God

As for the disabled customers themselves not all expect to get the service for the same money as able bodied. Some of them do recognise and appreciate the effort put in and tip well. Obviously they are going to get a taxi anytime they want one. The others will find it more difficult especially at busy times.

You are saying now that the ones that don't pay extra will have added difficulty on top of their disability. but the ones that pay a surcharge will get a taxi anytime they want.

The ones that will get the taxi are the ones that have been made to feel guilty and pay extra, you have managed to make them think they should pay more, the odd yawn and sigh works wonders then.

You do understand that disabled people have higher living cost than normal, they have a limited budget

Hey Big Yin

I drove in Scotland for years, you know if you are caught rejecting a fare because the person is black, disabled, catholic, gay etc the you can wave bye bye to your licence.

So the disabled people that pay more, do you offer them a refund if sitting in traffic and the meter is ticking over.

pavmas
Oh my God

As for the disabled customers themselves not all expect to get the service for the same money as able bodied. Some of them do recognise and appreciate the effort put in and tip well. Obviously they are going to get a taxi anytime they want one. The others will find it more difficult especially at busy times.

You are saying now that the ones that don't pay extra will have added difficulty on top of their disability. but the ones that pay a surcharge will get a taxi anytime they want.

The ones that will get the taxi are the ones that have been made to feel guilty and pay extra, you have managed to make them think they should pay more, the odd yawn and sigh works wonders then.

You do understand that disabled people have higher living cost than normal, they have a limited budget

Yes everyone's aware that a disability costs more money because you need help. And as such they pay for that help through buying assistance usually for things that cant do like maybe mow the grass or shop for groceries. So im not sure your point really other than you think that extra assistance they pay for should be free i guess. Well i figure let your taxes pay for it hey i know you could put them all in a home and take care of them right? Really people with disabilities want to be independent and thats why they pay for assistance. You are actingly like there children and need protection from the big bad world its actually insulting.

when i resided in Phoenix...after my brain hemorrhage...the city provided cabs (from all cab companies) who took disabled folks to their destination for a subsidized $2. fare... sometimes you would need to call up 12 hours in advance for scheduled doctor visits to get this service...

i came back to SC and this place is 20 years behind Phoenix AZ... there's not even a trusted, well managed bus service in this tourist town that houses 60k in the winter and up to 450k in the summer weeks at a time.

dam00
Im not trying to wind anybody up, all the comments I have read have all made very valid points, and you all seem to have some level of experience to contribute, which is making for interesting debate, I will however keep asking questions

if the shortfall in this case was subsidised by local authorities, where do you think the extra money would come from ?
Obviously the local tax payer so I go back to what I said earlier is not discriminating against one group discriminating against another or at the very least putting another group under preassure ?

is this fair, is this what equality is all about ?

I know the country is in a mess and money is short for most people, equality, discrimination are a subject I am quite interested

I have never been a fan of the whole everybody is equal attitude because I just dont beleive it

I am quite aware of how comunism works and its goal to destroy the western way of life

Well the simple answer to who should pick up the tab is your government in the US if you're disabled you can get subsidies for housing transportation and of course food. Alot of companies that transport the disabled bill the government directly at least thats how we do it.

reply to post by dragonridr


There was reasons this anti discrimination bill was brought in, this taxi company says they are not lifting disabled people anymore.

So imagine if landlords in his area refuse to rent property to Pakistanis claiming the smell of curry gets into the carpets walls etc and cost him more to maintain.

a couple lost their boarding house because they refuse to accept gay people, they were christian.

This firm has broke the law and on further reading the council have known for some time that they have charged disabled people double and refused to act.

This story will get bigger.

Why did the council not remove their license, it appears that they dont want to upset them because its owned by a muslim, they broke the law by openly discriminating against disabled people, this is not just a council matter it is a police matter.

reply to post by dragonridr


Here is my point, its against the law of the UK
lawcommission.justice.gov.uk...

They can have their vehicles impounded, why Middlesborgh Council is not taking any action gods knows, it was bad enough when they were charging disabled people double or 310 extra but now they state they won't take disabled passengers.

This company should be shut down any other company would be.