Let’s say that I am a business. Why should I care for your family?

reply to post by darkbake


No, not the correct conclusion at all. If you mistrust the corporation, then you have no reason to trust the government, either. Both are large, bureaucratic power structures and neither has any inbuilt mechanism for compassion or caring for the common man or individual. Both are just running the numbers and acting on them.

The difference is accountability and which you believe to have more. Is it the government where the officials are voted on and then appoint the bureaucrats occasionally? Or is it the corporation which has to get the consumer to buy in ... well at least it did until Obamacare created the mechanism whereby government can compel us to buy consumer goods.

In the end, I really don't trust either to have my best interests at heart, so I look for the one where I have more freedom to engage in a relationship if I so choose.

YMMV

I would also like to add into the mix. Human Resource Depts / corporate structure. have deliberately put a huge gap between real bosses and employees.

People are now taught from school level that the "work life balance" is a right. And they act with a sense of self entitlement that any person who has set up a company from scratch can not relate to.

You add in the middle management / CEO set up. Where they look down on the workers as almost a lower class. You have a recipe for not only money wasting but an uncaring workplace.



The fact is, there now seems to be the idea that these layers of personal are "needed" to make a company work. It seems to be geared towards putting relatively lazy / greedy / markety type people in the middle layer of a company and keeping those who really run the company apart.


Caring must come from being on the floor so to speak. And seeing for yourself how valuable a good worker is.

Then caring after that person, becomes a priority.

reply to post by ketsuko


Thanks, I just wanted you to clear that up is all. I think there is a major problem right now regarding the middle option disapearing, I'm not convinced, like Beezer says, that it is easy or even possible to be entirely self-sufficient by any means -

Although I would, of course, prefer that - I (personally) am reliant on others in order to build myself up to the point where I can provide for myself. I don't like that - I even have to be on food stamps, and I don't like it - see, I'm belligerent -




This video is hilarious - a lot of it speaks to what I can be like (everyone has negative traits).

I go to my favorite hot dog stand and the dude said "You come here all the time, here's one for free"
I said, "Man, what do I look like, a charity case?" I took it and threw it on the ground.
I don't need your hand outs. I'm an adult. Please. You can't buy me hot dog, man.

Although look - it is the small business, the single hot-dog vendor, who is able to be responsive to his customers. We need more small businesses.

In my small town, there are even a lot of businesses here that break with Corporate policy because they would rather be more adaptable and personable with the environment around them. For example, Albertson's - they stopped using the card and automatically apply the discounts to all shoppers because the local manager doesn't agree with the Corporate policy of tracking purchases.

There is a book store in town that stopped hosting tournaments for gamers because it didn't want to bother - but then all of the gamers took their business to the locally-owned Arcade, which is now racking up business from around 10-15 extra people that show up 2-3 times a week, buy drinks, play arcade games and spread the word about the Arcade around town to more people and more people.

The Arcade is even going to start buying and selling some gaming supplies.

This is the kind of spirit I like. However, a lot of that free spirit, no matter how much I like it, is being stifled by a mixture of forced dependency and lack of freedom to pursue goals in our society.

One of the main problems, as I see it, is if our country shifts rapidly from one extreme to another - no one will be able to adapt fast enough.

And by the time they do, we could be back at the other extreme, jailing people who took advantage of the limited period of time where it was beneficial to harm others to get ahead.

Arbitrary rules that change rapidly with totalitarian control are dangerous in a free society.

This seems like a silly question to me, it should be obvious. A happy worker who is well taken care of is going to be more productive and invest more time and energy into the company. A worker who is is stressed out about having enough money to provide for their family or being able to provide healthcare for their children is not going to be as focused on their tasks, especially if it is a job they are doing just to make ends meet.

I have an idea for a business, but with out start up money I am afraid it will never see the light of day, but this is how I imagine it.
It would be a company that I feel the employees could feel good about working for based on what it stands for.
It would have a positive work environment that show the employees that they were valuable and not a disposable worker.
It would have an on site daycare and benefits packages for all employees.
I believe the success of the business would come from not only what the company represents but because the employees would be cared for and would make it a better company.

reply to post by calstorm


Only one problem. The kind of people who actually want to work and gain their self esteem in-part at being good at what they do is dwindling.

I run a company that looks after its staff in a very unique way. But to find passionate people Vs self entitled people is getting harder and harder.


There are millions of people out there now who do not want a vocation / trade / or generally just be great at what they do.

In fact they now seem to gain their self esteem from external sources like FaceBook . Rather than something tangible.


People by nature now seem to be frivolous and unfocused. Hell I cant even remember the last time I heard the word "vocation" out of someones mouth.

It is like the whole world has turned into teenagers just looking forward to the weekend or next holiday.

If certain parties have worked hard to breed this mentality to drive a further wedge between the elite and workers. They have done a great job. This sense of self entitlement actually fragments and keeps the worker in their place. By giving them what they "think" they want.

thedeadtruth

Only one problem. The kind of people who actually want to work and gain their self esteem in-part at being good at what they do is dwindling.

I run a company that looks after its staff in a very unique way. But to find passionate people Vs self entitled people is getting harder and harder.

I think in the early 80s I was making 3.50 an hour that came to about 700 per month at 50 hours per week. Minus 100 for taxes and I had about 400 left to live on once 1/2 my apartment was covered. That is 100 per week for everything else and I lived on that.

The problem today is what people see as a standard of living is much higher. I did a tally in the past an a typical 20 year old needs about 2000+ to meet their level of standards. That higher number has more to do with being a hyper consumer society than inflation or lower incomes.

Add in internet, phone, cable, nice car, Starbucks, premium foods, games, apps, electronics etc and you get a picture of where the magical 15 bucks per hour for a living wage comes from.

There are millions of people out there now who do not want a vocation / trade / or generally just be great at what they do.

In fact they now seem to gain their self esteem from external sources like FaceBook . Rather than something tangible.

One big problem is that college is pushed on everyone and so there are now 100s of totally crap degrees and schools out there that end up giving you nothing for 50k of school. We saw it with the 99%ers who were told that a 100k a year job was there for them when they graduated but they found nothing in the end while still having a 50k bill. They blamed this on industry "evil rich" and not the scam job they got in school.

Today, there is a serious lack in people wanting to do trade skills instead of college. The truth though is the college person is complaining they cant even make 15 bucks per hour while the skilled craftsman of the same age is making 40 per hour...go figure...

calstorm
This seems like a silly question to me, it should be obvious. A happy worker who is well taken care of is going to be more productive and invest more time and energy into the company. A worker who is is stressed out about having enough money to provide for their family or being able to provide healthcare for their children is not going to be as focused on their tasks, especially if it is a job they are doing just to make ends meet.

Business have always spent about 30 to 35% of its gross on wages/benefits, this has not changed over the years so what do you purpose since this percentage can not be exceeded without failure of competition? At what point is a person paid for the work done, or the value of the work being done?

The formula is quite simple. The more skilled a job is the higher the pay will be. If you have a job that requires unskilled/uneducated workers it will not be a living wage or even close to it.

reply to post by Xtrozero


I'm 28 yrs old, I don't hyper consume any electronics, I can barely afford bills, the job market is always shifting. I am a welder and it always requires me to travel for my job, I've been in places that cost me more then 800 a week to stay in a motel room where as perdiem for the company was only 55 a day, that is supposed to cover my food and room it never came close. I was spending out of my pay to stay in a motel room on top of the per diem and paying the bills back at home at the same time, left very little for food and gas. Seeing as my motel room was nothing more then a bed and a bathroom I had no refrigerator or microwave no tv etc I was spending quite a bit on gas station sandwhich's and other little things like canned food I would eat cold out of the can etc etc. Essentially I was working to pay for a house I couldn't live in to live a lifestyle like the poorest, I have a deep relationship for the poor and homeless because I am poor and used to be homeless. I think that there is alot of assumptions between these kids today versus the old timers that think they know everything, I see another divisive phenomenon when it comes to the topic of the "modern workplace" Your 3.50 an hour by todays standards lol would barely buy you the gas you would probably need to get to work. The standard of living is a lot higher and wages are not matching with them anywhere near close enough for so many workers in America. Personally any company that wants to advocate the "team" mentality in my opinion is at that point obligated to treat there people like a team which means that yes they are obligated to take care of each other, if they do not have that then they do not have to, simply put.

reply to post by calstorm


All good points. I've worked for companies that gave you the bare minimum and others that went out of their way with benefits like a full remodeled kitchen with large screen tv In the break room, free Ipads for Christmas and so on. The employees were very loyal and it was a great place to work. The only downside is can you afford the wages and benefits that you need to pay your employees?

Brotherman
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

I'm 28 yrs old, I don't hyper consume any electronics, I can barely afford bills, the job market is always shifting. I am a welder and it always requires me to travel for my job, I've been in places that cost me more then 800 a week to stay in a motel room where as perdiem for the company was only 55 a day, that is supposed to cover my food and room it never came close. I was spending out of my pay to stay in a motel room on top of the per diem and paying the bills back at home at the same time, left very little for food and gas. Seeing as my motel room was nothing more then a bed and a bathroom I had no refrigerator or microwave no tv etc I was spending quite a bit on gas station sandwhich's and other little things like canned food I would eat cold out of the can etc etc. Essentially I was working to pay for a house I couldn't live in to live a lifestyle like the poorest, I have a deep relationship for the poor and homeless because I am poor and used to be homeless. I think that there is alot of assumptions between these kids today versus the old timers that think they know everything, I see another divisive phenomenon when it comes to the topic of the "modern workplace" Your 3.50 an hour by todays standards lol would barely buy you the gas you would probably need to get to work. The standard of living is a lot higher and wages are not matching with them anywhere near close enough for so many workers in America. Personally any company that wants to advocate the "team" mentality in my opinion is at that point obligated to treat there people like a team which means that yes they are obligated to take care of each other, if they do not have that then they do not have to, simply put.

Typically per-diem does not include lodging....so I think you were kind of screwed there if they paid you 55 a day for everything.

I'm assuming you are paid well above minimum wage, right?

I like you saying by todays standards...that is my point. You tell me what is today's standards?


I do agree that wages are lagging, mine is lagging. My wage has gone up 15% or so since 2008, but I had a hell of a lot more buying power in 2008 than today. The question is where does the fault lie. Company profits get tighter and with failed steps from our Government the cost of living goes up much quicker than we can compensate for. What a family could survive on in 2008 is not enough a few short years later, so how do we fix that? Do you think a typical company can survive with a 20 to 30% pay hike?

BTW that 3.50 would be about a 10 to 12 dollar an hour job today.

thedeadtruth
I would also like to add into the mix. Human Resource Depts / corporate structure. have deliberately put a huge gap between real bosses and employees.

I used to work for a interstate shipping company. They paid well, had some real busting ass workers with great attitudes. The bosses (Both corporate and local) showed up regularly to keep employees updated. They had what looked like a great healthplan and contributed up to 5% to 401Ks. I loved my job and looked forward to going to work.

But upon injuring myself while at work, the HR dept. has lied about my injury and denied any comp. They would have saved more money if they had just helped with paying my medical bill (I would have been grateful for that) and now it's tied up in the courts. Luckily, I have my own insurance, but it did drain my bank account nonetheless at the time with all the copays. I worry about my old boss as he and his assistant did write statements that I was injured at work.

I would bet even money that the headshed had never heard of my case and it is stuck in the legal/finance/HR realm.

I’ve heard since that there have been other employees injured across the states working for this company and they are now experiencing a higher rate of turn around. People are catching on to the lies being told.

reply to post by TDawgRex


Fire Everybody and Run your Freakin Business YOURSELF . If you Really want an Honest answer , then it's that Simple . If you cannot Run it yourself , then Hire People that will Work Hard and will be Loyal to you and your Business . Treat them with Respect , let them know they have an Honest Belief in Job Security with you , and if you cannot Pay for their Health Care under Obamacare , then ask them to Pay for it themselves but STILL KEEP Their Job . Truth and Honesty go a Long Way when it comes to making a Living , does it Not ?

reply to post by Zanti Misfit

What you said there, is just about spot on for a successful small business model. There are a couple of minor things (not worth mentioning in this thread) that need to be defined between the employer and the employee.

In the context of this thread, following what you say shows you recognize the human factor of business. The big business model either loses that ... or they wind up with extra staff that eat into profits. Can't say much about the corporate side ... but where I work it is even far less 'personal' thanks to the Gestapo/bean counters and in-house competition for resources.

In the long run, it still boils down to knowing what you're worth, and insisting on fair pay for your efforts. IME, very few people take the time to figure out what they're worth ... and there are far too many people who simply take advantage of that.

Aside from expected obligations to my family, I will only be forever in debt, to those folks who took the time to explain things clearly and concisely.

reply to post by Snarl


" In the long run, it still boils down to knowing what you're worth, and insisting on fair pay for your efforts. IME, very few people take the time to figure out what they're worth ... and there are far too many people who simply take advantage of that.

This is so True . Employers need to get a better Idea of what they have in an Employee by Challanging them from time to time with difficult tasks to see if more Trust and Responeability can be handed to them in order for an Employer to spend more time with their Families instead of constamtly being Stressed out over Controling every apect of their Business for Fear of losing it .

reply to post by Xtrozero

I'm assuming you are paid well above minimum wage, right?

I'm a welder, of course I make more then minimum wage, I have seen people try to offer welding jobs for a dollar more then minimum wage which is at the least insulting, I wouldn't want to go to a job where structurally critical welds were made by those that accept 10 an hour thats laughable. Besides all of that minimum wage isn't intended to be a livable wage anyways.

reply to post by Xtrozero



" They blamed this on industry "evil rich" and not the scam job they got in school. "

Yes. Lots of academics out there willing to sell a pipe dream, just to keep lecturing and stay employed.

thedeadtruth
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

" They blamed this on industry "evil rich" and not the scam job they got in school. "

Yes. Lots of academics out there willing to sell a pipe dream, just to keep lecturing and stay employed.

Oh yea! They want to be tenured.

Most schools these days, with the exception of community colleges suck.

TDawgRex
reply to post by Dimithae

 

Unions, and their high wages/dues are driving business overseas. The Gov't is trying to level the playing field when it comes to employer healthcare, and failing miserably in the process overall.

This is utter bull# and if you are buying this line then there is no reason to go any further with the conversation. You put this as the root cause, but even now the Asian markets are more than willing to pay the premium price for American goods as their incomes grow. Off shoring is the result of a system that first allows it by enacting free trade with developing nations. Second with changes in investor philosophies. We went from a system that accepted stable steady profit to one that demands bigger earnings each and every quarter as the determining factor of healthy growth. A change which created the lobby to eliminate our trade protections to begin with.

Ford and the other welfare capitalists understood that the earnings they gave up today would ensure continued growth into tomorrow. They didn't see employees as a cost but an investment into their own prosperity. This is not rocket science and as we go down the road of credit bubble after credit bubble, it will sink in as lower and lower paying jobs become the norm Americans will be buying fewer and fewer luxury items.

There is something truly sad about a consumer system that relies on the entirety of one month's sales before it sees any profit at all. The American Dream isn't dying, it is dead has been for awhile. Only thing is those that managed to hold on to it for the time being don't realize it yet. And they won't until the next market crash which is on it's way because nothing was really done to fix the problems that caused the last one.

reply to post by TDawgRex


Those who run a large proction company, cannot do everything on their own, for that reason 'Employees' are called upon and paid to carry the Owner / Employer, till he and his company hit the financial jackpot. What would happen IF the said Employees - 100%, and regardless of who he / she so asked, said "No Thanks", and refused to work for he or she.???? Business / Company would never start. However IF the said Employer proved how he / she cared about their Employees, then the balance between give and take would surely run nice and smooth................As many such Large Employers can tell you. Why should a professional Doctor or Nurse care about someone elses Family ?? same answer,

reply to post by KeliOnyx


I see that you are from Ohio, a heavily unionized state and that you are spouting the same crap I hear in bars all over. I’ve lived in Cleveland and this city is rampant with corruption, of which the unions have a hand in. It’s the friggin’ mafia all over again.

I’m not totally anti-union. Just the big ones. SEIU, AFL-CIO, etc. They are all corrupt…to the core. They no longer help the employees…they help themselves to the employees paychecks.

Ask any LTV worker how his or her union helped them out. But I wouldn’t suggest it. You may end up with a black eye.