The Haida Gwaii of North America and the Western European Peoples Connection.

Hello,

There may be a better title...

Months ago I was searching Google images for hieroglyphs, old art, religious art and mythologies. I was doing a lot of Hopi Indian searches I must have wound up stumbling upon a culture of American Indians named Haida Gwaii. We all learned of what they are famous for in grade school...Totem Poles. All my life I never really tried to look at what they depict.

Today I decided to do some random Google street viewing. When I first realized what that little yellow figure did on Google maps I was floored at the concept. It is one of my favorite things to do is check out ally's in some random location. Today It was Bulgaria. I started trying to see the blend of people near the Turkish border, but ended up venturing to the Capitol Sofia. After seeing some fountains and obelisks in a few of the parks I looked up Slavic Mythology, I should probably still be searching those dieties and stories, but I had to start this and see if anyone else can point some fingers of share some links of stuff already known.

It is known that The Proto-Indo-Europeans (sp) dispersed and said to travel towards Siberia, Southern Asia with dugout canoe skills producing 40 man vessels. As did so it sounds the Haida Gwaii. They both have totem poles depicting the same hatted and bearded figures multifaced dieties with animals perched on heads.. Both cultures influenced and converted by missionaries.

You see this new wave of people talking about the real source of Christmas and Paganism Catholicism/Christianity.. this is where it is coming from Slavic among other cultures witch wikipedia says predates Greek and Roman cultures. The Haida Gwaii of British Columbia are a direct link to the ancient mythology of Western Europe, basically... is this widely known or am I crazy?

You see it flung around as common knowledge how people came across the land bridge into the Americas..but it never seems clear who it may have been.

I think it is also a link with the Taiga forest biome. Pine Forest. The mythology is somehow tying together everything secret societies Masons connect with Egyptian lore and Iconography.. Bohemian Grove near these Pine Forests(Red Pines use to stretch much further than they do now) possibly for the same reasons. Tesla was a Slav I learned today. Creepy stuff...I went out to shovel and some strange guy sitting in a van do they know I know??

Is there a name for these guys, this is from Canadian Olympics I believe.
files.abovetopsecret.com...



This pic if you can zoom in to the far off totems in the dark grove of trees it looks to be a rather large and elaborately posed eagle with its wings half open(the scale and detail would be very impressive if thats what it it). Sortof like a charlie and the chocolate factory of totem poles hidden on a dark corner out of camera view. I have a wider angle shot of this location showing more hatted dudes on other nearby poles but the pic is wrong format or something. Also out past the water a mountain with what looks like something in the air above the peak. then the pole to the left looks to have a small twig of pin still bearing live needles at the top of the pole?


Here Hatted Figure Poles and the women seen wear clothes making them look European.


I was looking at this one and thought I could see a very large headed man looking over a fence at the right corner of the building.




Absalon topples Svantevit Slav diety


Swiotowit Slav diety


Not many pics of Europe mythology other than greek/roman need to search more.

Whoa, partner, yer probably safe from the white vans for now.........
Wouldnt it be wierd though if these are the remnants of a previous world wide culture which built the pyramids etc and were destroyed by catatyclism long ago.......
The Easter island figures are somewhat totem like as well, and predate civilisation......Egypt has immense figures.....carved in stone mind you, but possibly trees were substituted when the tools to work the granite were lost with the rest of the technology.....

Sorry to nitpick here but they are not American Indians but Canadian or North American, and Haida Gwaii is the name of the islands they live on which were formerly called the Queen Charlottes. The people themselves are Haida.

I was married to a native from a bit further south (Kwakiutl/Kwagiulth ) and his family said the Haida were much more warring than themselves or any other local group and speculated that the Haida must be from Polynesia.

reply to post by igloo


No thanks for clearing something up.

reposting this pic to point out the face. it doesn't have much to do with a eropean connection but zoomed in the definition looks so much like a face. though it would have to be one big dude considering the scale, is that another odd shaped face sitting across from him?



and that looks like a live bird on top that out of focus pole on the right eyeing the camerman up.




Let me just say too that I am in no way trying to say white men seeded North American Indians. Or take away or change someone heritage. Just trying to connect mythologies.

I just realized the above pic should be showing simply the ends of the A frame beams... Not a giant face, though the shading sure does create the illusion.

Something else I noticed though is what looks to be a log laying next to a ditch coming downhill from the right side of the house. I started another thread titled wooden water pipes suggesting some Indians could have known about piping technology, but it was more of a sidetrack from what I was trying to learn more about.

reply to post by igloo


I understand that there is cultural and artistic similarities between Polynesians of Hawaii and New Zealand and the Haida people but that one key physical piece has yet to be found.

It seems Central Asia and Siberia was a mixing pot of races and cultures. What can be seen in the pagan lore of Eastern Europe could well have a direct link of knowlede passed through millenia of eastern migration that can be seen on the other side of the planet practiced by a completely different race. Red ochre is common among indiginous people in religious ceremonies who live in the tran-boreal taiga that ring Asia, Europe and North America that can be an example of chthonic knowledge passed through migration.

I find it interesting too that the Haida according to wikipedia were not only slave keepers but also supposedly cannibalistic to whatever degree. Could there possibly be a link to the legends of vampires in Europe? If you look elsewhere other climate zones tend to share similarities with other climate zones. Hopi have similarities with Aborigine and Papa New Guineans(of wich also share legends of vampire like creatures) and or practice cannibalism(not the Hopi).

Polynesians were tropical islanders through and through if you go by appearances. Likely just coming out of the tropics of Asia versus the arctic like other groups, fur clothing opposed to grasses and palm.

reply to post by Mailman


uh no, the populations that became native americans mostly came from asian populations.
also, " proto-indo-european" is not a tribe or a small group, it is a linguistic name for the trunk language that most european and indian languages stem from.
this includes, english, french german,greek, italian, latin, iranian, sanskrit, and quite a huge number. this is in contrast to the middle eastern languages like semitic:hebrew,sumarian,aramic and arabic,etc , or sino-tibetan, chinese, japanese, tibetan etc.

i'm not sure where you get the idea that this tribe had any connection with european mythology, their beliefs bear no resemblance to eastern or western european mythology.
a lot of mythologies use the same symbology, but that doesn't mean that one comes from another. before christianity the slavic peoples more than likely had similar beliefs as the norse, the greeks and the celts.
there is little evidence left of their native beliefs after being converted, mostly like other european tribes, they had no written language, so most is second hand from priests.
but from what can be gathered, there were two gods, perun and veles the first a storm god and the other a cattle god. later on they became opposites, often depicted as perun fighting veles in the form of a giant serpent and perun as an eagle.

this is why you see monoliths with eagles, because perun was often depicted as one. perun being a storm god is theorized to be an evolution of a proto-indo-european god of thunder, he has analogs in other cultures.
from zeus to jupiter, to indra, to thor, as well as perkele the finnish god of thunder. the reconstruction name is perkwunos.

how does that have any connection with native american mythology though? the people you are referring to believed their gods were animals and while many did have a creator god i see nothing from this tribe.
i think you should realize that a lot of ideas come from being human not from one group coming up with the belief and spreading it or one group coming from another.

Mailman
I find it interesting too that the Haida according to wikipedia were not only slave keepers but also supposedly cannibalistic to whatever degree. Could there possibly be a link to the legends of vampires in Europe? If you look elsewhere other climate zones tend to share similarities with other climate zones. Hopi have similarities with Aborigine and Papa New Guineans(of wich also share legends of vampire like creatures) and or practice cannibalism(not the Hopi).

i doubt it, trading tends to lead to the influences of legends, folklore and mythology of other peoples, but not that wide ranging.
this is why there are many cultures in the middle east that have very closely related myths (think the noahic flood) but others don't until trading began or beliefs were forced onto them, like say the celtic gods becoming fairies or saints.
as for vampires? vampires in europe are way different than the middle east or the east, most of what we think of as vampires are not that old, they go as far back as the 18th century.
most of it stems from the slavic and romanian area, with a crap load of made up stuff by bram stoker and later hollywood. if you want to talk influences though, every culture had their version of the restless spirit that returned to their corpse to bother the living.
i doubt it really had much to do with cannibalism though, more so this tribe, i can't even find information about them being cannibalistic.
i think you might be reaching too far.

reply to post by demongoat


I just have to say that all of your explanations appear to be just as baseless as any of my claims. There is something in this regions culture I am trying to point out that is extremely unique. Like the Aztec cultures they are finding in southern states. Open your mind up a little bit instead of regurgitating what somebody else is saying how stuff went down.

I apologize that I confused some neighboring groups with Haida mentioned in the OP.

The group I failed to mention was Kwakwaka'wakw en.wikipedia.org...
and the hamatsa secret societies they practiced en.wikipedia.org...

The other day I was looking at some popular Flemish landscapes by Bosch, Brueghel.. crazy stuff "Christ in limbo", "Peasant Dance", "Peasant wedding", "Garden of Earthly Delights" to name a few.. These Indian tribes I mention above share the same imagery of the legends in Europe in these mentioned paintings and countless others.. If you keep looking you find that almost every indigenous culture also shares similarities. Ezekiels Vision. Multiple heads and eyes.. It's not just these totem pole carving, A frame house with steeple building Indians. They were adding small steeples on A frame houses before they were encountered by Modern Europeans. That is astounding to me.

As crazy as it sounds, I started another thread in Movies about a Kubrick film. I didn't mention something that gets focused on in the movie yet I couldn't figure out what it meant until now. A en.wikipedia.org... . Is this what is depicted in Eyes Wide Shut when Bill enters the coffee shop to avoid his trench coated follower? Interesting.


apon further search though still holding similarities the movie could just be showing a festoon.

stirling
Whoa, partner, yer probably safe from the white vans for now.........

reply to post by Autograf


I am over that now. Honestly.
I am no expert on anything.. I am just out of work trying to piece together what I am seeing with imagery. I thought it was interesting that "iconography" that thing we use to explain motifs in art was institutionalized by Aby Warburg and friends of the Warburg family. Maybe it is just grasping at straws.

There are other popular posters posting things that if true could "rewrite history" I am coming into this with with no real backround on the subject just what old unedited images are showing me. You even end up seeing images that have been attempted to be edited and you can see where they hid something and repainted to totally change the meaning into something that doesn't make sense on purpose.