Why I carry - even at home.

reply to post by Antigod

Thanks for the reply!

reply to post by mysterioustranger


Re: "can't shoot people over "STUFF". What state do you live in? I didn't see it in your profile. I sure wouldn't try seriously damaging private property in Texas. If someone's willing to do that with impunity then you and yours won't be far behind. I'd nip that tendency in the butt at the earliest possible convenience. I wouldn't blow someone's legs off for a fist full of wrenches from the tool box but I'd certainly give them a reason to change their pants ASAP.

This sounds like a really fun and exciting thread! As a rancher I carry a small .38 with ratshot and slugs while on the ranch and in between all the time. I decided a long time ago that if I carried an expensive high caliber rifle as a deterrent against some kind of ambush while on the ranch all that would happen is someone else would wind up with a pretty nice gun. Luckily we don't seem to be in any off the highway corridore for walk-through drug traffickers.

Many moons ago when I was working the night shift in the hospital at which I was employed I came home to a rather excited wife and kids. It turns out a couple of guys drove up in front of the house and parked. Being a small town of some 600 or so people, not all of them living in town, you notice when things are out of the ordinary such as strange cars being where they shouldn't at the wrong time. My brother and sister-in-law lived across the street at the time and observed one of the men get out of the car and walk down to the car port and look in the window then go back to the car. When my brother-in-law walked out on his front porch and yelled to ask them what they needed the car took off like a bat out of Hell and we never saw them again. Lord only knows what would have happened if he had not done that.

Our garage is always unlocked but we've never had anything stolen out of it even though it is a separate building located behind our main house and the kids' friends used the pool table in there when our kids were in high school. Now and then we'll get some "interesting events" in ours and surrounding communities but, surprisingly, West Texas is a very quiet place even with the oil boom going on and all the roughnecks from elsewhere arriving. I may be speaking too soon but ... so far so good.

At my age I've made the decision a while back that I can live with the knowledge, and karma, of having taken someone out that would harm me and mine without question - or hesitation. Every adult in the house knows how to fire their weapons, fairly accurately, while being safe with them - even our 4 year old grandaughter got a BB gun for Christmas last month. She thought we were calling the BB's "babies" so, while we were out at the ranch, when I showed her how the BB pops into the breech when the rifle is cocked she'd reach in and say "tickle, tickle, tickle". I couldn't regain my composure for quite a while after that!

Hi all,

I'm new to ATS, and quote fascinated by this thread.

Just to give back ground I'm from the UK and grew up in a London suburb. I've received training, carried firearms and been a member of a shooting club. At university (late nineties) I studied and wrote a couple of essays on US firearms culture during Clinton's presidency.

Do I support the desire to carry a firearm for personal protection? Well that depends, here at home on the UK mainland, no definitely not. Overseas in countries or cities with high rates of armed violence, yes provided you receive adequate training and regularly practice - little point having something if you don't know how to or cannot bring yourself to use it.

Culturally I noticed big differences in attitudes to firearms between Brits and Americans. Having been on a range with British and American OTC students firing military semi-automatic and automatic weapons for the first time I have to say a few of the Americans scared me. These were guys who had supposedly grown up around firearms but their casual attitude to basic safety was terrible. They had clearly not been taught simple matters such as checking if a weapon is clear when first picking it up. They really thought they had nothing to learn and that was dangerous.

The only conclusion I could come to was that in the UK firearms are well regulated and policed and ownership and club membership is on the whole rare and seen as a privilege. Perhaps due to the easy unregulated access in some US states the reverse is true? Certainly I have seen teenagers playing with air weapons in the UK with little regard to safety in a similar manner: Anyone over 18 in the UK can buy a air rifle up to 12ft/lbs power with out any checks or training. (this might sound weak but at point blank range it can put a .22 pellet through a human skull or penetrate the heart).

I am sure that many members of this site are responsible firearms owners and educate their children well to have a healthy respect for lethal weapons; but I do believe regulation, training and practice should most definitely be enforced.

With regards to the second amendment? Pah, it's almost worthless, the moment the Patriot Act and similar in the UK were passed having firearms or not as an issue to defend against an overbearing government were side-stepped. There may be enough civilian owned firearms in the US to form militias but in my view the average American is now no better off that an average European. Is anyone really going to stand against western governments in enough numbers (and we don't even need arms) to change these oppressive and invasive laws passed under the guise of anti-terrorism?


Thought not...

reply to post by BigGL

Do I support the desire to carry a firearm for personal protection? Well that depends, here at home on the UK mainland, no definitely not. Overseas in countries or cities with high rates of armed violence, yes provided you receive adequate training and regularly practice

You say that you would carry in countries or cities with high armed violence rates. Then why not in London? Do you know the the stats for London? Be sure to look at a source that is not biased.

Most of this has to do with where you are from. I do not own a safe, there is a gun as close as a TV in almost any area of my home except for the kids rooms as they grew up, and they all owned BB guns. A CWP and a Drivers License is all the same to me. My family is everything, and I fear no man. I see protection as my job. If a politician deserves an armed presence, why not MY family.

It is a belief, attitude and a culture. The fact is my family does not fear, we do not cower. My children were raised to be aware and what to do.

Years back my, then, eleven year old daughter, was asked in class, "what would you do if an adult touched you in a private way', she responded "tell my dad". The teacher asked, why? She responded, "because he would kill them". I was never prouder.

Do not live in fear. If you are the good guy. Act like it.

mysterioustranger
reply to post by 2ndthought

 

Youre wrong on almost all points. You cant shoot them for stealing unless they are armed and not running away from you, removing the threat. You could if you and they are in the house at the same time...but not if youre outside because you could get away.

Look at what you wrote and said here. Your reasons for defending is correct. But when to use force...is not. Read my other posts or go online to research when to legally defend yourself.

Almost all points, huh?

www.keepandbeararms.com...

Read though some of these reports. I only went though the first 15 or so, but found several that fly in the face of what you expound. And these before many states enacted 'stand your ground' laws.

An unarmed thief caught in the house.
archive.ksdk.com...

Over a potted plant. Thief attempting to leave area. no apparent charges.
www.kens5.com...

And there's still youtube:
www.youtube.com...

I mentioned crawling though windows...
www.youtube.com...

whywhynot
reply to post by BigGL

 

Do I support the desire to carry a firearm for personal protection? Well that depends, here at home on the UK mainland, no definitely not. Overseas in countries or cities with high rates of armed violence, yes provided you receive adequate training and regularly practice

You say that you would carry in countries or cities with high armed violence rates. Then why not in London? Do you know the the stats for London? Be sure to look at a source that is not biased.

I've lived in London in the past and still work there often. I feel perfectly safe, I've personally encountered more crime in a rural Somerset market town - even then it wasn't violent. If you look at the stats for London the vast majority of victims of gun crime are criminals themselves. Victims of violent crime also often know their attacker. I'm not stupid however I don't wander around Brick Lane drunk on a Friday night with my latest iphone on display... street sense is a much better skill to have than being able to shoot a tight grouping at 25 yards!

You need to think proportionally, if violent crime in London were to rise drastically and the odds of being a victim with it then perhaps I would support concealed carry permits in the UK for those who can be trained and are happy to take on that responsibility. I would probably volunteer to be one of them. You do have to bear in mind that in the UK on the very rare occasion an armed police officer shoots & kills someone he will be off duty and likely dragged through the court processes to ensure it was a lawful killing; and these are people we extend rights to and expect them to kill in our name, so I doubt many people would actually want that job! I do believe that gun crime on the whole has fallen back in London in the past few years and hopefully it will keep going that way.

Right now if we allowed unregulated firearms access in the UK we would probably see a sharp rise in gun deaths, and only a fraction would be genuine bad guys killed by good citizens. I suspect most would be suicides and accidents.

reply to post by BigGL


It is all your opinion and speculation without supporting facts. Deny ignorance.

BigGL
Culturally I noticed big differences in attitudes to firearms between Brits and Americans. Having been on a range with British and American OTC students firing military semi-automatic and automatic weapons for the first time I have to say a few of the Americans scared me. These were guys who had supposedly grown up around firearms but their casual attitude to basic safety was terrible. They had clearly not been taught simple matters such as checking if a weapon is clear when first picking it up. They really thought they had nothing to learn and that was dangerous.

...

With regards to the second amendment? Pah, it's almost worthless, the moment the Patriot Act and similar in the UK were passed having firearms or not as an issue to defend against an overbearing government were side-stepped. There may be enough civilian owned firearms in the US to form militias but in my view the average American is now no better off that an average European. Is anyone really going to stand against western governments in enough numbers (and we don't even need arms) to change these oppressive and invasive laws passed under the guise of anti-terrorism?

I haven't subscribed to the idea of the Second Amendment being useful against the government for a long time, and it has nothing to do with the patriot act. The reason has to do with arms escalation. Back in the 1800's when everyone was using muskets and maybe a few rifles? Everyone could own a gun and an organized group of people could fight back against a professional army. WW1 changed everything, starting with the Great War things like chemical weapons under state control became a thing, as did fortified positions with machine guns, air power also made an appearance. Economics have prevented the common man from owning these things, and since WW1 the gap has grown. Today we can all own a pretty fancy rifle but that does nothing against cruise missiles, bombs, jets, tanks, body armor, chemical weapons, drones, tactical nuclear weapons, communications bugging, spy satellites, railguns, stealth, a navy that can prevent 99% of arms shipments, and so on. Any armed open rebellion against the government either requires the support of a faction of the military or is limited to small acts of domestic terrorism. In either event, our personal arms exist only for self defense against criminals.

To me the second amendment means one thing. You have the right to defend yourself in any method you wish. The only line I draw with it is a weapon which you can't conceivably use to protect against an imminent threat without also being caught in the weapons blast radius if the weapon is lethal. A chemical weapon that incapacitates you both? Sure. A chemical weapon that likely kills you both? No. A nuclear weapon? Good luck getting out of the blast range if you're using it on a nearby threat. A gun? Of course. A grenade? Seems fine to me.

Pretty simple really, though I know some disagree. But my thought is, even if there's a better way (which is a subject of debate... I think I already gave my stance on this) freedom means being free to make a less than optimal choice.

justreleased
reply to post by CeeRZ

 

I feel sad for you if you feel the need to carry a gun/weapon in order to feel safe.

It is your right but.....whatever. Some people are thick.

I respect your choices regarding guns, however, to some folks it is just another form of insurance. If a person chooses to legally carry a firearm for protection is no different than the person who has an alarm system, home insurance, health insurance, etc.

Who are any of us to decide the validity of it? I believe that some folks need to remove the rose colored glasses and see the world for what it is. It's not unicorns and rainbows. It is filled with crime and desperation. The current state of this country has driven many folks to turn to desperate measures. Our current justice system does not punish the guilty.

I'm all for being optimistic, but in between the unicorns and rainbows lie some bad people. Despite the hope for the best, some folks prepare for the worst.

A lot of haters on this thread, but i agree with carrying a weapon.

I carry a firearm and a blade on my person at all times. except when i go to the gym. And i always have a loaded one in the room at home.

Military taught me that its better to have one and not need it, than need it and not have it!

Anyone who disagrees, i dare you to try and rob me.

Also, i have a feeling that i will be the silent one in the candy bar isle at the gas station while some thug demands the cash at gunpoint. Bad day for him.


And best of all, I FEAR NO ONE

I now have no problem giving up the little freedom I have left because of your words of widom

Being obsessed with guns isn't freedom- more like a mental disorder.

reply to post by mysterioustranger


None taken.

Yes, I am legal to own ALL the weapons I have.
Yes, my training has been properly done through gun training on JBER (Fort Richardson, Alaska), and by my father who is a retired Vet from the Navy and continues to be overly done as a trainer, mentor, and all around great man.

If I was unfit to own one my Dad would kick my ass and take every one from my house!

IMHO, anyone who does not have proper training and intro classes before owning a gun should be flagged by their community to know the lack of stupidity and carelessness of those around them.

Why not, those I'm talking about are a danger to good people.
The public does that to pedophiles as a precaution.

I had an encounter last year with some drama. A Trooper asked if I had any weapons on me, I told him I had a legal pistol, loaded on my hip. There was probably 7 there in the yard. He ask to see it. I calmly told him I would hand it over. he was relaxed. I pulled it out slowly with respect, discharge the clip and slide gave it to him. I told him my story (the situation) He ran it in their system, handed it back to me, put the clip back in and back under my coat. No problems.

I understand the problem with corrupt police. but I have read stories of cops abusing power and a citizen having to shoot one down and no charges. The chance of that happening, which should be never is another reason I carry.

I have also read stories of a armed citizen seeing a cop in trouble on the side of the road with a struggled patron and pulling there weapon out and help subduing the other and the cop being thankful for the armed citizen. Never to be seen in the media though.

It's a good and bad thing to own guns, but you can't have the good without the bad.

Thanks for the response.

reply to post by Onemorevictim


Your awesome!

(Need it not have it....) I can't tell you how many times my Dad beats that into my head

reply to post by CB328


Everything in moderation, makes for a good man that sees a balance and equality for their environment.

Greed, selfishness, envy, etc makes for a dangerous individual.

reply to post by 0zzymand0s


Great Comment in my opinion, I see alot of this 50/50 where anti guns belittle pro guns and vice versa. At the end of the day, if someone wanted to harm you, they can. My only issue with it is the probability of accidents.........Holding a firearm IMO is a constant reminder of what its purpose is for and after an incedent which the OP experianced, That can make someone 'Jumpy' and God forbid a family member tries to open the door and struggles with it. Thus making the sound of someone entering with ill Intent......We all hear of stories that end badly like that. Luckily these are rare to an extent.

To the OP I am truly sorry to hear what happend to your Neighbors and having you and your Husband carry does provide somewhat community protection in my oppinion. That said we live in a world with advanced means of protection and implements of death. There is no YES or NO to having firearms, its all down to people and we as a whole are different. The one that carries may never be attacked and the one who seldom holds a knife other than when eating could have a very traumatic exsistance. You never know until something happens but then that something could happen because of the firearm you carry.

I personnally wouldnt carry but where I am from we dont carry but some criminals do..........Most of our deaths by guns tend to have guns on themselves. Culture causes our perception of what we need to feel safe. As long as we all do feel safe that should be the goal

InverseLookingGlass
reply to post by CeeRZ

 

Before you get defensive, please understand that no one that is in the process of living and enjoying life, needs to have instant access to lethal force at all times.

You're exactly right. 99.9999% of the time you won't need "instant access to lethal force at all times"... until you need it. Please share your clairvoyance with me so that *I* will know the exact moment I'll need my handgun. That way i don't have to carry this thing around all the time, ya know... because, well, it's just silly to have this thing on me if I absolutely know I won't need it. Otherwise I'll resign to keep it on me... just in case.

Thanks!

A firearm is a tool in a toolbox. It is there if needed.

Love my right to own a firearm, carry a firearm, discharge a firearm, and even the freedom not to do all of the former.

Having someone tell a person that is legally able to own a firearm that they shouldn't is just plain odd.

We made most street drugs illegal and see how that worked!

If the USA makes gun ownership illegal, we only make the black market richer.

Agreed about training. OP states he is trained and continues to train. Smart move. Most folks purchase a gun and it sits with dust collecting on it. To benefit from your firearm, it is best to take it out monthly or even more to prepare for a variety of situations.

InverseLookingGlass
reply to post by CeeRZ

 

Before you get defensive, please understand that no one that is in the process of living and enjoying life, needs to have instant access to lethal force at all times.

Perhaps having the means of self defense readily available is why people can be in the process of living and enjoying life.

CB328

I now have no problem giving up the little freedom I have left because of your words of widom

Being obsessed with guns isn't freedom- more like a mental disorder.

Fear of inanimate objects is more a mental disorder than wanting the freedom to choose for yourself what you do or do not own. I'd say obsessing about removing the ability to choose from your fellow citizens is the more intrusive mindset.