CNN Poll - What America Considers to be 'Morally Wrong'

Edit:thumb typing.

ketsuko
reply to post by zeroBelief

 

The idea of American exceptionalism is not that the American people are somehow any better or worse than anyone other people. How could we be when we are composed of the cast offs and rejects and outsiders who didn't fit in those other places?

What made America exceptional was that for the first time we were supposed to be in a system where the individual was supposed to free to sink or swim and rise as he as he or she could in his or her own merits. That was what was supposed to make America exceptional. Most other places still held to an oligarchy and the peasants. And, we are back to that notion today.

American exceptionalism is fast becoming a thing of the past because it's wrong for you to want to succeed and if you do, you became that most hated and reviled of all things - a member of the greedy 1%.

edit on 10-1-2014 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)

"Was supposed to be" is the operative phrase there. It never was what all the promotional material promised it would be / could be / should be no matter how hard Americans tried to believe in it. Exceptionally gullible is more accurate.

Krazysh0t
reply to post by zeroBelief

 

No, YOU keep saying I do. I've already stated that I don't care. I was only answering a question that the OP asked. Again, I do not care what you do with or without your spouse. That doesn't mean that there aren't labels for the actions you perform. If those labels offend you, then that is your problem.

Alright, apparently I'm in the challenged section of the class.

When you label something as "cheating", you are implying a negative connotation along with that label.

"He plays unfair, he cheats at cards."

If you truly feel the way you do, perhaps you could use a different term. IF I do have a relationship with my wife where it is acceptable to all adult parties involved, it is clearly not cheating. It is what is commonly referred to as an "open marriage".

The very fact that you feel so pious as to even begin to label anything about someone else's relationship....I find offensive. Now, much as I don't care about what you feel on this matter, I can only imagine you'd care less about my feelings regarding the matter either. However, you are the one doing the labeling, in a situation that you know nothing about personally, and you are doing so with a negative connotation.

So again, thank goodness, you are not in my bedroom with my wife and I.

reply to post by frazzle


Never? Not even a little?

I guess that explains why so many of our millionaires made their money of their own and are first generation then ...

Look it's not perfect, but it's closer to the idea than anywhere else out there. There's no reason to stop trying to make it what it was intended to be.

But, of course, socialism will kill any hope left.

ketsuko
I think overall this shows the decay in morals of society overall. If it feels good, do it and damn the consequences!

I'd like to invite you to attempt to look at this outside of the framework of what you view as being moral and or correct.

That's all this is.

In other words, what I am saying is, the ideas espoused by this poll are based upon an ideal established by a certain group or thought.

If I chose to be gay, "cheat" on my wife, smoke pot while drinking a six-pack of beer, and make a five year old cry because I just shattered their belief in Santa Claus...well....

It's none of your business.




Perhaps, as a nation, if we internalized this outlook...we'd all be a little happier and live that life of freedom and liberty we were promised so long ago....

reply to post by Rosha


HOLY CRAP! I'm seriously getting annoyed at the people getting all offended pretending like I have some sort of moral outrage towards swinging or even adultery in general. You people are putting words in my mouth. People, get it through your head. I. DO. NOT. CARE. ABOUT. IT.

ketsuko
reply to post by frazzle

 

Never? Not even a little?

I guess that explains why so many of our millionaires made their money of their own and are first generation then ...

Look it's not perfect, but it's closer to the idea than anywhere else out there. There's no reason to stop trying to make it what it was intended to be.

But, of course, socialism will kill any hope left.

Of course it isn't perfect, that was my point. There are exceptionally good people everywhere you go in the world, including the US. There are also exceptionally good liars who will do whatever is necessary and/or expedient to take gross advantage of exceptionally good and gullible people. America is no exception to that rule and no ism rules it out.

eNumbra

Krazysh0t
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

I want to know who those 6% of Americans are who think adultery is just fine. YIKES!

They are called swingers and have existed since 60's.

None of those percentages surprise me really. The country has become less religious and more tolerant towards different lifestyles so those percentages that have dropped are a direct consequence. The ones that have gone up show that people are good liars about themselves (94% percentage of Americans think adultery is bad? I'm sure that there is FAR more than 6% of Americans cheating on their spouse).

Swinging isn't adultery. Swinging is a consensual relationship choice between both parties. Adultery is cheating, one party doesn't or isn't supposed to know, otherwise polygamists would be "cheating" on one wife with another.

Well it would still be on some level. Marriage is only exclusively between two people. So why would you want to marry someone if you're going to go out and hook up with other people? It's pretty pointless to be married in the traditional sense and be a swinger.

Swinging within marriage would be considered cheating. Some of these people actually take pleasure in seeing their spouses cheat on them. It doesn't make it 'immoral' though. But it does go against what a marriage is SUPPOSED to be.

eNumbra

Krazysh0t
reply to post by zeroBelief

 

No, YOU keep saying I do. I've already stated that I don't care. I was only answering a question that the OP asked. Again, I do not care what you do with or without your spouse. That doesn't mean that there aren't labels for the actions you perform. If those labels offend you, then that is your problem.

The problem is that you called "adulterers" swingers. Adulterers enter into a monogamous relationship and proceed to cheat on their spouse. Swingers aren't in an exclusive monogamous relationship, cheating is impossible.

6% of people are assholes, not swingers.

edit on 1/10/2014 by eNumbra because: (no reason given)

See here is the difference between you and I. I just put a label on something and call it a day. YOU attach morality to the label so that when someone labels something you do not find morally wrong with the label you've attached morality to, you get offended. They are all just words. Adultery is cheating on your spouse. It is just a statement I am making. Now whether or not you two agree to cheating (swinging) is irrelevant. You are still not honoring the relationship. It is cheating, ie adultery.

Again. I really don't care if people do it. I won't judge you as any less of a person for doing it either. I just don't care. To me, it is all just words and we are arguing over semantics. Heck, I really don't even care if you don't consider swinging adultery or not. Just understand, that many people do consider it adultery, so when polls like the one in the OP are conducted, you end up with results like the ones depicted in the OP.

I don't know if 'swinging' counts as adultery.

On one hand, the couple involved takes vows not to be with anyone else.
So any sexual activity outside of the couple would be a break of the vows and be adultery.

On the other hand, they both agree to partake outside of marriage. So no lies or deceit is practiced.

The definition of adultery is ... 'voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person
and a person who is not his or her spouse.'

I dunno ... I'm leaning towards 'swinging couples' being serial adulterers who are happy about the adultery
and who don't mind it at all. It's expected. But again, I don't know why anyone would want to bother
being married if adultery is expected and accepted. Sounds odd to me ...

It's no wonder to me that smoking dope and drinking alcohol are so low on the list.

Everyone's looking for an escape from this reality. Too bad they're doing it wrong.

I'd like to suggest that the conflicts arising in this thread are a result of significant psychological deviations from each other; more specifically, the use of cognitive functions known as, "introverted feeling", and "extroverted feeling".

Clearly, zero has introverted feeling, and will be in disagreement with the reasoning presented by extroverted feelers such as myself. Even the qualification of various terms can see as stemming from how we go about perceiving/judging emotional information in the first place.

This is a common cause for clashing and bashing of opinions and skulls amongst people. Though I can appreciate the function in and of itself, how it manifests sometimes... really ticks me off.

So I'll allow a bashing from zero, and bow out of the thread.

Before I do, I'll give a few links on Fi, Fe for the curious:

No hard feelings, zero, my disgust is related to macro-social ideals and their large-scale long-range impacts, not individual preferences, per say. I do think it genuinely works out well for some people, but think that the pushing from certain media sources, causes people to experiment where they have no psychological compatibility, and overall causes more harm than good for many new participants, that then flows into potential divorces, children living in broken homes, and on and on..

Fe - How is Feeling expressed when it is turned outward?
Extraverted Feeling reaches out to attach and interact with other living things . . . nurturing relationships. It is about validating and valuing others, encouraging, coaching, educating and motivating. It is protecting, helping, and caretaking. The Extraverted Feeling mind organizes action consistent with values, beliefs, spiritual foundations, and sense of humanity - how people (and other living things) ought to be treated. Extraverted Feeling promotes collaboration, a shared sense of community, and harmony in interpersonal relationships.

Fi - How is Feeling experienced when it is turned inward?
Introverted Feeling is being aware of and cherishing one’s own mental framework of values, beliefs and sense of self. It is being open to emotions and inner sensations. It is also being sensitive to others in an empathetic way. It is knowing what is right and wrong according to one’s personal moral and spiritual compass. It is being authentic. As a gatekeeper of the mind; it admits what is consistent with one’s value and belief framework and rejects what is repulsive or draining. Introverted Feeling seeks harmony with others and harmony within.

Understanding the MBTI

reply to post by Lingweenie


If you believe in objective right and wrong, then adultery is always wrong even when swinging because marriage is an exclusive covenant/contract between two people, and you are breaking that to be with someone else, even if your spouse agrees to it.

Only people who believe that there are no objective right and wrong would say that adultery is not immoral.

reply to post by Lingweenie


and

reply to post by FlyersFan


Exactly, I'm glad someone finally sees what I'm talking about. Swinging is just adultery that the parties have accepted and are ok with. It's like the people I've been talking to haven't come to terms with this realization yet and are lashing out at me for calling it like I see it. I mean, I'm just calling a spade a spade.

webedoomed
Clearly, zero has introverted feeling, and will be in disagreement with the reasoning presented by extroverted feelers such as myself. Even the qualification of various terms can see as stemming from how we go about perceiving/judging emotional information in the first place.

No hard feelings, zero, my disgust is related to macro-social ideals and their large-scale long-range impacts, not individual preferences, per say. I do think it genuinely works out well for some people, but think that the pushing from certain media sources, causes people to experiment where they have no psychological compatibility, and overall causes more harm than good for many new participants, that then flows into potential divorces, children living in broken homes, and on and on..[/url]

I'm not going to buy into your psycho-babble personality labeling.

All I stated was, my business is my business. Not yours. Not anyone elses.

I did not elude to being in any form of "alternative lifestyle".

When I said family, I meant myself, my wife, and our child.


The conclusion you chose to come to was utterly wrong.


I may even POSSIBLY agree with the general consensus here about "cheating" or being an "adulterer". I may not.

All I stated was that it is my choice, my life, and my business. It is not up for perusal or judgement by anyone else that is not a member of my family.

reply to post by webedoomed


Personally, this INTJ sees the patterns being pushed that are unraveling us. We no longer hold to any common values as a society and it erodes our trust in each other.

Think about it - If you can't count on the person you just met to hold to at least the similar social values that you do, can you trust him or her at all? How willing are you to trust initially?

It isolates us and weakens us and makes us that much easier to control.

ketsuko
reply to post by Lingweenie

 

If you believe in objective right and wrong, then adultery is always wrong even when swinging because marriage is an exclusive covenant/contract between two people, and you are breaking that to be with someone else, even if your spouse agrees to it.

Life really is simple, cut, and dried for you when you follow a book written by men.

Isn't it?

Krazysh0t
Adultery is cheating on your spouse. It is just a statement I am making. Now whether or not you two agree to cheating (swinging) is irrelevant. You are still not honoring the relationship. It is cheating, ie adultery.

There's two problems with this.

If both of you have agreed to do it, it ceases to be cheating.
If two swingers have gotten married, what's the likely hood that it was a traditional judeo-Christian marriage, because they're still remaining at the end of the day, faithfully tied to one another. The act of sex is not seen in their relationship as some sacred covenant that shan't be broken. I haven't attached morality to anything. If two people have agreed to a set of rules and abide those rules then they're not cheating. If there was no agreement to monogamy then there either can be no adultery, or their definition of adultery is changed.


This thread is a great example of the rampant problem with "morality", nobody believes the same thing, based on everything from how they were raised to the definitions of words.

reply to post by zeroBelief


That's fine, your term has been properly qualified.

I am, however, open to judging your decisions, and stating my opinion as an autonomous, and free-thinking individual, and you'll have to use physical force to properly restrain me from doing so.

As for the "psycho-babel", your choice not to take the system in for whatever merits it may provide to people.

Take care!


reply to post by ketsuko


Different strokes for different folks. I love a woman, dearly, but she is unwilling to commit to a monogamous relationship with me. She loves me dearly, as well.

She genuinely believes that open relationships provide more trust in the relationship, and more respect for the significant other by allowing the relationship more freedom, and a doing away with what she sees as petty insecurities.

That being said, she's a meth-addict, currently in prison, lost her front teefers, has multiple STDs, and hasn't a clue who she is, by her own admissions.

Funny how the people who claim to have this advanced lifestyle in some respects, and depth of feeling, tend to be a wreck on the inside and outside, no?

Not in all cases, but man, she just can't get herself together.