America's arrogance astounds me; despite our freeze, record heat persists worldwide!

ElectricUniverse

Rezlooper
Okay folks...I give up. The argument on both sides is unwinable. This whole argument mainly focuses around carbon emissions, but my true concern is methane and hydrogen sulfide gas.
...

The fact is that Anthropogenic Global Warming/Climate Change is being attributed by most AGW scientists to anthropogenic CO2 emissions, and not to methane.

Also, in one of your responses you sided with a member who ridiculed those of us who believe AGW is a hoax, or did you not?...

As to methane emissions what do you think are the causes of them?

And again, why is it that there are, and have been world record COLD/WINTERS if methane is heating the planet?

edit on 11-1-2014 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

Can you show me what you're talking about here...where I sided with who?

I've discussed causes numerous times in the threads that I've posted.

If there are these record cold winters can you show us the data that shows that, rather than one record cold day, can you show how over the long term, these are record cold winters.

reply to post by Dianec



Natural Climate Change is happening, and it is not the first time in the history of humanity, or this planet when the weather and climate has gone wild and caused catastrophes.

There are countless ancient descriptions from all around the world of people and civilizations that suffered dramatic and strange weather extremes and Climate Changes.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Yea, but you know what they were all missing?

The use of coal, gas, and petroleum.

Quite the difference, don't ya think?

Rezlooper

Can you show me what you're talking about here...where I sided with who?

wow...really? on the first page your response to member amazing.

Rezlooper
If there are these record cold winters can you show us the data that shows that, rather than one record cold day, can you show how over the long term, these are record cold winters.

Winters don't last a day... BTW, I am aware that some winters have been short, but there have also been some springs and summers that have been shorter. Hence why the AGW scientists changed the name from Global Warming to Climate Change, because there have been record winters as well.

webedoomed
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

 

Yea, but you know what they were all missing?

The use of coal, gas, and petroleum.

Quite the difference, don't ya think?

Using coal, gas and petroleum all release CO2. So I don't really understand what you are trying to say.

Its amazing that some brain washed clowns believe Global warming ,now climate change [to accommodate extremes of cold ] is reversible ,as if arrogant humans can keep the weather, seasons, static to suit themselves ! stupid, egotistical dililtante Politicians ,who mindlessly repeat Climate change is real, and offer a Tax as a solution ,which they then mindlessly squander this money anyway ! Can these Idiots stop volcanoes erupting ? Tsunamis ? Tired of hearing about it ,more fear porn, like terrorism to keep the masses occupied ! if its not that, its North Korea ,what happened to that ??? now its Iran, another ''Evil Empire '' that Israel and its useful Idiot followers need to attack ,to save humanity from this ''Threat'' !!!!!! the Mega Fauna and dinosaurs died out ,maybe its out turn ,all we need it several volcanoes or a super volcano to erupt and we are all finished ,Try to reverse that !

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


I am aware that climate change has happened before and is natural to our planet. I believe the reason people are concerned is because it has also been associated with the mass extinction of species.
www.sciencedaily.com...


Current climate change is altering the ecosystem. For example - insects living in places too cold to live before - impacting animal and plant species without immunities against them. Or creating situations where disease has more of an opportunity to mutate/spread among different species. The smallest life forms on earth affect those higher up (fungus as an example). When ice melts it rains and rain with warmer temperatures provide a breeding ground for such conditions.
theextinctionprotocol.wordpress.com...

I believe the study of this is important. There is no denying it happened in the past. It's about understanding the past and applying that knowledge to what we see today that may help us adapt. If we in any way shape or form are accelerating this we need to stop. A tax won't help - stopping will. There are misguided people who think they can buy the climate back - and sadly that's how out of touch they are with money and its place in the natural world. The planet is warming and whether that leads to an eventual cooling I have no clue but a cold few days or even a cold winter cannot refute the long term data that we are warmer over the past dozen years. What is "has been" versus "where its going" are two different things so I refer to it as climate change since its disputable what it will be like 5 years down the road.

I like how NASA refers to it as the planets vital signs. If we watch what's happening we can understand where we may be headed since it will impact at least some life on the planet (all interconnected).

climate.nasa.gov...

webedoomed
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

 

Oh I get it, you're playing stupid, in a passive-aggressive move.

No thanks!

I don't like to mess with fools.

You enjoy sucking up that propaganda, though.

edit on 11-1-2014 by webedoomed because: (no reason given)

What in the world are you talking about now?... You should learn to make an intelligent and concise argument if you want to be taken seriously.

The release of anthropogenic CO2 includes the emissions from gas, coal, and other petroleum products, yet you seem to think that this isn't being taken into account which shows your lack of knowledge on the subject. Not only that but you resort to using insults, which again shows that you have no valid argument at all.

Dianec
...
Current climate change is altering the ecosystem. For example - insects living in places too cold to live before - impacting animal and plant species without immunities against them. Or creating situations where disease has more of an opportunity to mutate/spread among different species. The smallest life forms on earth affect those higher up (fungus as an example). When ice melts it rains and rain with warmer temperatures provide a breeding ground for such conditions.
theextinctionprotocol.wordpress.com...

Yes, there are continual changes in the ecosystem of Earth, but there is nothing humans can do to change that, we can only adapt to the natural changes.

it is also true that we should take better care of the environment, but not at the extremes that some people want to take it in which some people advocate even to stop using our technology altogether, even when they themselves are not willing to do so.

Dianec...
The planet is warming and whether that leads to an eventual cooling I have no clue but a cold few days or even a cold winter cannot refute the long term data that we are warmer over the past dozen years. What is "has been" versus "where its going" are two different things so I refer to it as climate change since its disputable what it will be like 5 years down the road.

according to more recent studies quite the contrary has been happening.

The following is a research from 2012.

Climate in northern Europe reconstructed for the past 2,000 years: Cooling trend calculated precisely for the first time

Calculations prepared by Mainz scientists will also influence the way current climate change is perceived / Publication of results in Nature Climate Change

09.07.2012

An international team including scientists from Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz (JGU) has published a reconstruction of the climate in northern Europe over the last 2,000 years based on the information provided by tree-rings. Professor Dr. Jan Esper's group at the Institute of Geography at JGU used tree-ring density measurements from sub-fossil pine trees originating from Finnish Lapland to produce a reconstruction reaching back to 138 BC. In so doing, the researchers have been able for the first time to precisely demonstrate that the long-term trend over the past two millennia has been towards climatic cooling. "We found that previous estimates of historical temperatures during the Roman era and the Middle Ages were too low," says Esper. "Such findings are also significant with regard to climate policy, as they will influence the way today's climate changes are seen in context of historical warm periods." The new study has been published in the journal Nature Climate Change.
Was the climate during Roman and Medieval times warmer than today? And why are these earlier warm periods important when assessing the global climate changes we are experiencing today? The discipline of paleoclimatology attempts to answer such questions. Scientists analyze indirect evidence of climate variability, such as ice cores and ocean sediments, and so reconstruct the climate of the past. The annual growth rings in trees are the most important witnesses over the past 1,000 to 2,000 years as they indicate how warm and cool past climate conditions were.

Researchers from Germany, Finland, Scotland, and Switzerland examined tree-ring density profiles in trees from Finnish Lapland. In this cold environment, trees often collapse into one of the numerous lakes, where they remain well preserved for thousands of years.

The international research team used these density measurements from sub-fossil pine trees in northern Scandinavia to create a sequence reaching back to 138 BC. The density measurements correlate closely with the summer temperatures in this area on the edge of the Nordic taiga. The researchers were thus able to create a temperature reconstruction of unprecedented quality. The reconstruction provides a high-resolution representation of temperature patterns in the Roman and Medieval Warm periods, but also shows the cold phases that occurred during the Migration Period and the later Little Ice Age.

In addition to the cold and warm phases, the new climate curve also exhibits a phenomenon that was not expected in this form. For the first time, researchers have now been able to use the data derived from tree-rings to precisely calculate a much longer-term cooling trend that has been playing out over the past 2,000 years. Their findings demonstrate that this trend involves a cooling of -0.3°C per millennium due to gradual changes to the position of the sun and an increase in the distance between the Earth and the sun.
....

www.uni-mainz.de...

www.uni-mainz.de...

That study shows that the past was much warmer than the present, despite claims from the AGW hoaxers. It also shows that the Roman Warming period and the Medieval Warming period were even warmer than previously thought.

BTW, yes that study was for Europe, but I have given many times in the past research from all over the globe that shows the Roman Warming period and the Medieval Warming period were warmer worldwide than the present time.



www.uni-mainz.de...

Dianec
I like how NASA refers to it as the planets vital signs. If we watch what's happening we can understand where we may be headed since it will impact at least some life on the planet (all interconnected).

The natural changes the planet goes through always impacts life on the planet. What we have to make sure is that no more oil spills happen, they didn't follow safety procedures to save time and money which lead to the spill. The Fukushima plant should be closed and cemented completely, and among other things we should start a project to clean the pacific ocean of the large plastic island that exists there and recycle that plastic.

There are so many things that could be done with that recycled plastic, including better housing for poor people in places like India, Mexico, etc.

But the thing is those in power do not want to do any of this. Despite their claims that they want to protect the environment, in reality they just want more power, and use excuses and hoaxes like AGW to try to grab more power and more money from the regular people.

As for the Climate Changes which will continue happening? We can only learn to adapt to them, and be better prepared for those changes.

reply to post by Rezlooper

Earth will rebound fine. the planet doesn't care about life on it.

humans have been dying from their own actions since the beginning , global warming is just another way.
we as a species will either change with the planet or die off
if you would go back through the ages the planet has warmed and cooled many times. this is nothing new.
maybe millions will die from lack of water/food , maybe that the way it has to be for the human race to get it head out of ass.

if anyone is really worried about global warming then start getting water stored and start using seawater as a source of that water.
we have thousands of miles of oil pipelines but we still don't use the one thing that is abundant on the planet, " SEA WATER " which covers almost 3/4 of the planet.
a billion people on the planet could die and we would go on as nothing happened.

onequestion
reply to post by Agit8dChop

 

Its arrogant to think we have more control over the weather then the cosmic ebbs and flow of the universe.

i don't think we have control over the universe but this planet is just a speck and i don't think it's arrogant at all to think that overpopulation and spewing man made chemicals into what was supposed to be balanced without the chemicals.... can alter the atmosphere of our little speck in the universe. in turn, eventually with the change in atmosphere we won't last. the earth will go on.... just not with humans.

i think it's arrogant to think that we can just do what we want to this living breathing planet and not face some repercussions.

reply to post by webedoomed


The catastropic impacts on animals and weather that may be happening now, man made or not, happened many times before as climate always changes and those things are normal. Mass extinctions, vastly variable weather and regional changes in rainfall and temps all are normal and happened many times. Consider that the oceans in ice ages (remember that for 90% of the last million years) are 200-300 feet lower than now, plus who knows at what temps. As we go into an ice age this kind of stuff happens and its very severe. Oceans up and down many times by hundreds of feet, no doubt the origin in most cultural myths of the primordial floods as it is in our collective unconscious.

Yes we are affecting climate now, but even if we adopt radical changes to have no influence- the climate will change radically on its own and be just as devastating from whatever causes ice ages. It wasn't that long ago that our ancestors lived in an ice age, many flips from warm to cold, and back to warm, over and over, for millions of years. Many species suffered in the transition stages until a new stabilization was reached, but it never stays stable. Bet when it flipped in the past back to colder many times people were freaking out just as some are doing now.

We can not stop climate change, we need to prepare to live though it, and we don't want quick change, also we can't have 6 -7 billion people survive in total made-made environments. We will need other places to live and self-contained living zones even if there were no impact on climates by human activities. The climate will turn against us no matter what. Yes its good to understand it, that is the first step and we are not there yet.

reply to post by Rezlooper


I suggest someone putting up the video "the day after tomorrow."

This was all predicted in global warming scenarios including the monster typhoon haiyan.

We need to not only cut down greenhouse gas emissions but somehow suck it out of our atmosphere.

reply to post by pasiphae

i think it's arrogant to think that we can just do what we want to this living breathing planet and not face some repercussions.

I agree with this statement.

I just don't think CO2 is the problem.

And besides, climate change is the least of our problems... we've got far bigger fish to fry:

Pollution
Toxic landfills
Poisoning our waterways
Deforestation
Depleting finite natural resources
Altering our landscapes with open pit mining
Fracking
Chemicals in our food
Killing off natural habitats of other species
Altering natural biological processes
Increasing rates of cancers and diseases
Wars
Famine
Poverty
World economies on the brink of collapse

... just to name a few

retsdeeps1
reply to post by webedoomed

 

The catastropic impacts on animals and weather that may be happening now, man made or not, happened many times before as climate always changes and those things are normal. Mass extinctions, vastly variable weather and regional changes in rainfall and temps all are normal and happened many times. Consider that the oceans in ice ages (remember that for 90% of the last million years) are 200-300 feet lower than now, plus who knows at what temps. As we go into an ice age this kind of stuff happens and its very severe. Oceans up and down many times by hundreds of feet, no doubt the origin in most cultural myths of the primordial floods as it is in our collective unconscious.

Yes we are affecting climate now, but even if we adopt radical changes to have no influence- the climate will change radically on its own and be just as devastating from whatever causes ice ages. It wasn't that long ago that our ancestors lived in an ice age, many flips from warm to cold, and back to warm, over and over, for millions of years. Many species suffered in the transition stages until a new stabilization was reached, but it never stays stable. Bet when it flipped in the past back to colder many times people were freaking out just as some are doing now.

We can not stop climate change, we need to prepare to live though it, and we don't want quick change, also we can't have 6 -7 billion people survive in total made-made environments. We will need other places to live and self-contained living zones even if there were no impact on climates by human activities. The climate will turn against us no matter what. Yes its good to understand it, that is the first step and we are not there yet.

edit on 12-1-2014 by retsdeeps1 because: (no reason given)

Yes it happened before but the Q is howlong the current climate could have been sustained, could be for tens of thousands of years.
But now we make things happening in a very short time, just like a mega earthquake, and you could say we are just like that mega earthquake, also natural.
Although if we where smarter...

Looks at the big animals on this planet, there are only a few left on a few places (compared with not so long ago, 50-100 years) because of humans and in the past they could just move to colder or warmer places and survive, they won't survive now with a (fast) changing climate for sure.
And this is also human caused, what arrogance??[

ElectricUniverse


What in the world are you talking about now?... You should learn to make an intelligent and concise argument if you want to be taken seriously.

Wow! Talk about assumptions.

The release of anthropogenic CO2 includes the emissions from gas, coal, and other petroleum products, yet you seem to think that this isn't being taken into account which shows your lack of knowledge on the subject.

No. It shows you assume too much. They are not being weighed accordingly by you.

Not only that but you resort to using insults, which again shows that you have no valid argument at all.

How many false assumptions can you make in one post! Sheesh, and we're supposed to take YOU seriously?

Rezlooper


And you're 'just sayin' it correctly. The whole point..."North America freezes doesn't prove there is no global warming"

North America - cold
Europe - warm
Eurasia - warm
Asia - warm
Australia - warm
Africa - warm
Alaska - warm
South America...not sure, haven't checked lately.

The Northern Hemisphere is not "warm", period. Unless we use your subjective view on what constitutes warm. Is 30 degrees F warm? Is it as warm as 100+ degrees F in Australia? This is why no one takes you climate alarmist srsly. You people are far too sensationalist when it comes to your arguments. And if no one agrees with your anecdotal arguments, they're "arrogant" and "ignorant". Global warming has become a religion to you people. Those who are outside of the cult are shunned and called flat earthers for even the smallest of disagreements. Its ridiculous.

Lets ignore the data that suggest global warming "stopped" 16 years ago, because it doesn't fit your maligned argument/agenda. Lets ignore the damning emails of East Anglia and the terrible track record of predictions from the IPCC. Furthermore, lets concentrate on the evil oil industry and the corruption there, while turning a blind eye by ignoring the massive government grants going towards "climate science" which could just as easily be viewed as corrupt if we apply the same standards...

Look, the Earth IS warming. This tends to happen after an ICE AGE. We can agree that Human level of involvement does contribute even if said involvement is less than a tiny fraction of a percent. I agree that Co2 IS a warming gas, and that it does (or appears to) contribute to the acidification of the Ocean. We should find alternative energy. But let's not pretend that Humans are the singular cause for the earth warming. Richard Lindzen (whom works for MIT and is a renowned climate scientist) Says that human involvement (in the climate warming) is so miniscule that it is immeasurable. Yet, that does not stop you annoying alarmist from flapping about as if you have all the answers, and everyone else is stupid morons. You people are pretentious, and the bane of all existence. Get a life.

reply to post by retsdeeps1


MIT, huh? Sounds pretty fancy!

Wonder what some other folk from MIT might have to say regarding him. I found this rather quickly:

The April 30, 2012 New York Times article included the comments of several other experts. Christopher S. Bretherton, an atmospheric researcher at the University of Washington, said Lindzen is "feeding upon an audience that wants to hear a certain message, and wants to hear it put forth by people with enough scientific reputation that it can be sustained for a while, even if it’s wrong science. I don’t think it’s intellectually honest at all." Kerry A. Emanuel, another M.I.T. scientist, said of Lindzen's views "Even if there were no political implications, it just seems deeply unprofessional and irresponsible to look at this and say, ‘We’re sure it’s not a problem.’ It’s a special kind of risk, because it’s a risk to the collective civilization."

WiKi

I deny your false assumptions that nothing can be done about climate change. Plenty can be done, and many are working on coming up with solutions to the various problems that surround the issue.

I would generally agree that the earth has had natural variations in climate throughout it's entire span of existence, however, this in no way points to a humans not mucking up these natural cycles to an extent. Yes, mass extinctions have occurred in the past, and another is certainly underway at the moment. The difference from the previous five, and the sixth that we have entered, is that one species is to blame for it this time. Pretty sure you can figure out which one it is!

Hi,
You will see some cool stuff comming when you explore my signature. Just not yet. Now we are on the peak of the solar maximum.
And the jet streams are messed up
maybe because of atmosphere shrinkage. That's probably why you saw all the "chemtrails" threads.
I would bet on the cooling but what about this:
Isn't it from the lack of love? Don't you know the air-heart chakra? The substance we share and burn with our solar-plexus fire.