Shocking; Lions almost extinct in West Africa

reply to post by soficrow


If you had read the article, you would know that it is native herdsmen who are poisoning the lions, not trophy hunters. When the taking of mature lions by trophy hunters brings in $50K or more, and a good portion is spread amongst the locals (as trackers, skinners, camp helpers, cooks, etc ), then the lions become not only tolerable--even if taking a few cows-- but valuable--and the poisoning will cease.

Same thing has happened in east Africa and south Africa. Where they have monetary value to the native population, their numbers increase.

The solution to Tiger decline in India would be similar. A dozen tiger hunts at $500K/hunt could be easily sold. If half were divided amongst the locals to help eliminate poaching for Chinese consumption, the tiger population would rebound quickly.

reply to post by Ektar


The cattle represent their wealth. They don't eat them; they milk them and sell the milk or milk products. You don't eat your most treasured possessions and money.

Which is really the problem - the lions represent a threat to their wealth, not a source of it.

You know....

China went through a very very serious starvation period, I could be wrong but I think it happened sometime in the sixties or early seventies. Probably sixties.

But anyhow, oh the horror stories during those times, people dying left and right from starvation. I think it's because China was paying back the debt they owned the Soviets, but that's off topic.

The important thing is, I remember hearing people talking about it, how people were so hungry, that they started to cook anything that's organic.

I'm talking about from belts, to boots, to leather jackets and crap. I'm very serious, some were even eating tree barks. The thing is, I don't ever recall the people of China actually ate a species into endangerment. Well, at least not during that period of time.

Point is, I'm pretty sure there are other types of sustenance that can keep a human alive, there's absolutely no reason to kill lions in high numbers.

If you are talking about an occasional kill, maybe, but hunted for food down to extinction.... somethings don't add up. Perhaps my suspicions are wrong, because I'm not too familiar with that region, but just doesn't make sense to me.

I think there is $$$ involved, not only it's for food, but I'm sure the bones, fur, hide and other materials are highly sought after. Good excuse to use starvation though, but I don't buy it.

reply to post by truthseeker84


Chinese peasants were far more controlled than African tribesmen. They weren't allowed the weapons and didn't have the hunting skills.

ketsuko
reply to post by truthseeker84

 

Chinese peasants were far more controlled than African tribesmen. They weren't allowed the weapons and didn't have the hunting skills.

Sure, I could agree to that.

But doesn't change the fact that lions are not the only type of sustenance that can keep a human alive. Dude, the Chinese were eating tree barks... and it worked. They maybe malnourished, but they didn't die.

And I'm pretty damn sure that there are other organic materials around to eat, other than specifically targeting lions.

reply to post by Tusks


So, would you say the lion in the link I provided was poisoned? Did Michelle just prop up on it for the photo op?

To imply that an impending West African Lion (a specific species) extinction is caused by nothing more than a few herders protecting their cattle (the poisoning reference) is specious.

From the article:

Although shocking, the news of the lions’ near extinction should probably not come as a surprise give the context of the region. The populations of other large mammal species declined an average of 85 percent in West Africa between 1970 and 2005, mostly to feed the voracious demand of the bushmeat trade.

The bushmeat trade is a commercial enterprise (What is bushmeat?):

Though habitat loss is often cited as the primary threat to wildlife, commercial hunting for the meat of wild animals has become the most significant immediate threat to the future of wildlife in Africa and around the world; it has already resulted in widespread local extinctions in Asia and West Africa. This threat to wildlife is a crisis because it is rapidly expanding to countries and species which were previously not at risk, largely due to an increase in commercial logging, with an infrastructure of roads and trucks that links forests and hunters to cities and consumers. The bushmeat crisis is a human tragedy as well: the loss of wildlife threatens the livelihoods and food security of indigenous and rural populations most depend on wildlife as a staple or supplement to their diet.

Gryphon66
(The lions aren't dying out because a few people are eating them.)

Tell that to the American bison (buffalo)..

They almost went extinct from hunting.
They used every part of that buffalo for something, number one meat.

You would be surprised how fast a species can become extinct from people needing to eat..

reply to post by Gryphon66

That is a lion from South Africa, where it was far more valuable than 50 head of cattle.

Unfortunately, educating the people of West Africa enough for them to understand the economics of it seems a hopeless project.

starfoxxx

Gryphon66
(The lions aren't dying out because a few people are eating them.)

Tell that to the American bison (buffalo)..

They almost went extinct from hunting.
They used every part of that buffalo for something, number one meat.

You would be surprised how fast a species can become extinct from people needing to eat..

... are you joking? Do you actually think the American Bison almost went extinct merely because of survival hunting by natives? How coincidental that it only happened in the 1800s, huh? Since bison had been on the continent for ... oh 10,000 years, give or take a few thousand.

This is how we try to explain it to our kids ...

The Exterimination of the American Bison - Library of Congress

The settlement of the West changed the environment in numerous ways. One well-known example is the mass killing of American bison. In 1889, William T. Hornady, Superintendent of the National Zoological Park, wrote a detailed report of what he termed the "extermination" of the species

The causes which led to the practical extinction (in a wild state, at least) of the most economically valuable wild animal that ever inhabited the American continent, are by no means obscure. It is well that we should know precisely what they were, and by the sad fate of the buffalo be warned in time against allowing similar causes to produce the same results with our elk, antelope, deer, moose, caribou, mountain sheep, mountain goat, walrns, and other animals. It will be doubly deplorable if the remorseless slaughter we have witnessed during the last twenty years carries with it no lessons for the future. A continuation of the record we have lately made as wholesome game butchers will justify posterity in dating us back with the mound-builders and cave-dwellers, when man's only known function was to slay and eat.

The primary cause of the buffalo's extermination, and the one which embraced all others, was the descent of civilization, with all its elements of destructiveness, upon the whole of the country inhabited by that animal. From the Great Slave Lake to the Rio Grande the home of the buffalo was everywhere overrun by the man with a gun; and, as has ever been the case, the wild creatures were gradually swept away, the largest and most conspicuous forms being the first to go.

In Tanzania, east Africa, a common tactic is for the game departments to catch poachers, imprison them for a short while, then convince them they can make better money as game rangers--catching more poachers--and hire them as such.
That is one of the reasons Tanzania has such rich game concentrations.

Tusks
In Tanzania, east Africa, a common tactic is for the game departments to catch poachers, imprison them for a short while, then convince them they can make better money as game rangers--catching more poachers--and hire them as such.
That is one of the reasons Tanzania has such rich game concentrations.

That sounds like a great solution to me. It's proactive. We need more solutions like that.

reply to post by ketsuko

Sorry I should have been more clear as I was in a hurry.
I do realize that milk is the purpose & was being a smart a$$
because the whole thing makes me upset.
Why do they have to graze in a lion protected area?
They should NOT be poisoning them regardless. It is NOT
their area as far as I'm concerned it's for the lions not humans.

Thanks for pointing out me mistake, I shouldn't have been so quick
to respond.

Cheers
Ektar

starfoxxx
Poachers and people exploiting the lions for anything other then in really dyer need of food should be shot..
The article focuses on the nations poor not being able to provide conservation, and killing the lions for food.
If the people need to eat, who am I to say don't kill that lion, your CHILD can die?

In that aspect it's a tough decision, i agree.

I'm inclined to know what your solution would be..

reply to post by Tusks


I DID read the article. I call mis- and disinformation. So much easier to blame illiterate tribespeople than globe-trotting studly gourmands popping $20,000 a plate for roast lion.

Gryphon66

starfoxxx

Gryphon66
(The lions aren't dying out because a few people are eating them.)

Tell that to the American bison (buffalo)..

They almost went extinct from hunting.
They used every part of that buffalo for something, number one meat.

You would be surprised how fast a species can become extinct from people needing to eat..

... are you joking? Do you actually think the American Bison almost went extinct merely because of survival hunting by natives?

Where did I say that? I never said it was just natives that did it.
The population in Africa is much higher then the population of the native americans..
Hunting DID cause the near extinction of the bison is what I said.
The article in the OP points to the hunting of lions for meat as cause of the population being thinned, and it has happened
in history..

soficrow
reply to post by Tusks

 

I DID read the article. I call mis- and disinformation. So much easier to blame illiterate tribespeople than globe-trotting studly gourmands popping $20,000 a plate for roast lion.

As abhorrent as it may seem to you, such hunting can become the means for the species' salvation, not by the people who are willing to pay that much but because there are people willing to pay that much. It's a matter of getting enough local people and the right local people to buy into the idea that the lions can be a useful resource rather than simply pests.

Believe it or not, it works in other places.

If you can get the locals to view the lions as living, breathing meal tickets, then they have a vested interest in making sure that the lions are protected and flourish. They have a vested interest in making sure that any hunting that is done doesn't harm the overall numbers of the species and is done at prices that benefit the entire local economy.

Worldwide, some of the biggest advocates of conservation are local hunters, fishermen and wilderness guides whose livelihoods depend on the health of the environments and ecosystems around them. They are some of the biggest advocates of catch and release, buy up natural wetlands and other habitat to ensure that waterfowl can migrate, and teach their children and others how to respect nature. Yes, even as they enjoy hunting, fishing, and eating wild game.

reply to post by ketsuko


Thanks - Tusks and ketsuko. I do get that - but still think the focus just takes the heat off the real bad guys. People pop $20,000 to maybe $1,000,000? only if the animal is nearly extinct. Maybe the tribespeople are so ignorant and stupid that they don't realize rarity is a marketing device but some day they will catch on and realize they've starved themselves for no reason.

reply to post by Staroth


Tiger population has been rising here in India at least ...