Insane Clown Posse Defends Fans, With F.B.I. Lawsuit

ICP is the polar opposites equivalent to what is wrong with America. Every song I ever heard repulsed me, which admittedly wasn't many. After watching the first two posted in this thread....my God, the rhyming is so basic I can't help but feel it being targeted towards little children. Who else would listen to this? The skinny dude dropped the F bomb in every line. Each line was 5 words.....

Very limited. I'd think the government would want our kids listening to this garbage.

More on topic: after watching more about fan base, so the FBI want to designate 14 year old preadolescent boys with potty mouths as a criminal gang? Hahaha am I missing something here?

Lingweenie
Two groups of clowns fighting against each other? How poetic.

No kidding.

Floydshayvious
If the authorities designate their brand as gang related then people will be scared away from buying their merchandise (their bread and butter) - that affects the duos bottom line - money. I don't believe this has much to do, ultimately, with defending their fan base. I listened to them as a teenager until I realized what I was cheering for. Cops DO treat it like a gang (right or wrong) and a hatchet-man anywhere on you or your vehicle is like a damn magnet. I read Violent J's biography "Behind the Paint" years ago and found they both acted like they really wanted to be thugs at least for the added shock value over and above their visual shtick - now they're getting the attention and realizing the consequences (again - right or wrong).

It's pretty amusing - even though I swear I remember hearing about this a long time ago. I guess the system really is backed up with crap on crap on crap lol.

I once bought a car that still had the hatchetman sticker in the back window. The cops probably laughed when they saw this middle-aged lady driving it.

I am so glad my formative years was before ICP, all we had when I was 12 was ABBA, Queen and the BeeGees. Maybe Disco should not have died, that left it open to ICP.

I think this thread is drifting a bit. The OP is about ICP defending their fans from the FBI, and whether you like their music or not, that's commendable in my eyes. Agreed with other poster, it probably had as much to do with publicity as it did with helping their fans.

Personally, I've been a fan of theirs for years. It's not really much different than Eminem, but in this case it's 2 white guys from Detroit rapping instead of a solo act.

S+F OP

reply to post by thov420


Actually yes i was hoping for some more discussion about the lawsuit and the definition of a group of individuals as a gang by the FBI, never think most of the post were going to be about the music or life stile of the Juggalos.

Most states have laws against gangs that limit their rights, for example they cannot have public meetings among many other things, although most states have antigang laws in the majority of the states there is no legal definition of what is a gang member.

This sort of branding can lead to huge discrimination, now is the Juggalos, its easy to point them out as not many like them, but what if things escalated to branding of other groups as gangs, like for example idk conspiracy theorist.

thisguyrighthere
reply to post by Fylgje

 

Hmmm I would have thought WV was a ripe place for the Juggalo.

I see them all over Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont and upstate New York.

Their little hatchet man logos are all over the place on cars and street signs and buildings and the word "Juggalo" is a staple of graffiti spots all over the Northeast.

They're based in Michigan so maybe it's more of a Northern half hillbilly thing and not a genuine Appalachia hillbilly thing.

I'm sorry but I've lived in Maine most of my life and I don't think I've ever seen a "Juggalo". You say they are everywhere. I'm sure there are small pockets of them around but certainly not everywhere.

Aside from that though, regardless of who they are, I think it's great they are standing up against this. Labeling a whole group of people just because they like a type of music or lifestyle is, imo, wrong.

Indigent
reply to post by thov420

 

Actually yes i was hoping for some more discussion about the lawsuit and the definition of a group of individuals as a gang by the FBI, never think most of the post were going to be about the music or life stile of the Juggalos.

Most states have laws against gangs that limit their rights, for example they cannot have public meetings among many other things, although most states have antigang laws in the majority of the states there is no legal definition of what is a gang member.

This sort of branding can lead to huge discrimination, now is the Juggalos, its easy to point them out as not many like them, but what if things escalated to branding of other groups as gangs, like for example idk conspiracy theorist.

I agree and I apologize for contributing to the thread drift.

Now about your last statement, the Government already has their eye on conspiracy theorists. There is a list that many people with inquiring minds and a desire to uphold the Constitution may well find themselves on... 72 Types Of Americans That Are Considered "Potential Terrorists" In Official Government Documents.

I feel we may be staring straight down the barrel of Agenda 21 implementaion at it's most obvious for anyone with a clue! We've (members here at ATS) already been "branded", now TPTB simply have to keep working their way down the food chain. Before we know it we'll be living in one big Global Police State. If ICP wants to spend their money on a lawsuit, well good for them. Honestly, bringing any attention to these attempts by the government to categorize and stigmatize certain groups of people is a good thing.

It remains to be seen if these Juggalos will return the favor by learning their Constitutional RIGHTS and then standing up for them.

Rosinitiate
ICP is the polar opposites equivalent to what is wrong with America. Every song I ever heard repulsed me, which admittedly wasn't many. After watching the first two posted in this thread....my God, the rhyming is so basic I can't help but feel it being targeted towards little children. Who else would listen to this? The skinny dude dropped the F bomb in every line. Each line was 5 words.....

Very limited. I'd think the government would want our kids listening to this garbage.

More on topic: after watching more about fan base, so the FBI want to designate 14 year old preadolescent boys with potty mouths as a criminal gang? Hahaha am I missing something here?

edit on 9-1-2014 by Rosinitiate because: (no reason given)

The FBI is the name we give to the department run by the Minister of Culture.

They have waged culture wares on behalf of old Uncle Sam ever since they were first formed. That is all this is. ICP fans are seen as counter culture (and they really are, if you consider what "counter culture" really means, vs what it is intended to mean), and thus are targeted by the FBI. Same as the commie hunting they did pre 1990.

I can't stand their stuff. I lump them in with Hollywood Undead, which is another group that just annoys the hell out of me.

That said, ill fist fight any one of you to ensure that they are given the right to make their horrible music and badly influence their fans.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Are you for real? Calling these guys wiggers and white trash? Why, cause you don't like their make-up? You hate rap? The music doesn't move you? Well I know, then call them offensive, racist names and belittle them with insults. So much for art right? You my friend need a reset.
I have been around the scene for quite awhile, I remember when long hair was talked about similarly. I remember when my friends hated punk so much I had to listen to Iggy Pop alone. I remember thinking the Insane Clown Posse was a joke.
I recently allowed myself to listen to some of their stuff. It started when I was looking for music for a film I was working on. I found a song called "it's all over" by this act, and it's really quite good. So is the song posted here, the remake of "let's go all the way".
Now I don't expect you to agree with me but I will say this. I'm white but I'm not trash. I live on the coast and I don't fit into any neat demographic, but I do know talent, and these dudes have some. You don't get to their level on make up and hype alone.
So ease up and don't be a hater, it makes you look worse than the people you're hating on.

Fascism vs Art is an old theme, the outcome is uncertain but should never be questioned in a free society. When the brainwashed masses migrate into the pens of totalitarianism, you got a problem son.

reply to post by Stackpot


What I mean by "questioned" is that it is critical to defend art and art movements, including the odd looking fans, for to not defend it, is beyond dangerous.

I wouldn't consider ICP fans gang members or a threat more than I would Richard Simmons. Seriously, I've seen some of their fans and they're mostly methed out weirdos or prepubescent weenies. Their music was never very good and I always preferred Eminem when it came to their beef back in the day.

I'll side with them though against the FBI because music particularly doesn't make you do crazy ish, being crazy makes you do crazy ish.

Still not a fan though.

Here are the reasons that this lawsuit is happening...

Brandon Bradley felt like an outsider growing up. After a neighbor gave him a copy of ICP’s “The Wraith” CD, Brandon finally felt understood and inspired. He credits ICP’s music and the Juggalo community with having a positive effect on his life, encouraging him to have self-confidence and tolerant of other people’s lifestyles.

Three times, Sacramento police officers have stopped Brandon for minor offenses like jaywalking. Officers interrogated him extensively on his Juggalo tattoos and attire, asking if he is affiliated with a gang and taking detailed notes of his replies. In one instance, gang squad officers forced Brandon to pose for dozens of photos of his clothes, face, and each of his tattoos. In each case, Brandon was let go without a ticket but he believes officers have entered his photos and information into a database of gang members.

After these incidents, Brandon is careful to hide his tattoos and conceal his ICP clothing in certain areas of Sacramento as he is afraid of being stopped by police.

Mark Parsons considers himself one of the original fans of ICP, having attended shows and supported the band for years. In honor of the band, Mark named his own trucking company Juggalo Express, LLC and decorated his big rig with the image of a Hatchetman.

While Mark was hauling cargo in a tractor-trailer emblazoned with an ICP logo, he was detained for a safety inspection by a Tennessee State Trooper. When Mark asked why he was stopped, the Trooper replied it was because the logo was associated with a gang “according to the FBI.” This inspection delayed Mark’s cargo for over an hour.

Although Mark takes a lot of pride in the Juggalo community, since the FBI classified music fans like him as a gang, the daily anxiety of being pulled over by law enforcement has cost him both time and money.

Scott Gandy has considered himself a Juggalo since 7th grade. ICP’s music and the supportive community in the fanbase are a large part of Scott’s life. Scott has always aspired to follow family tradition and serve in the U.S. military. However, Army recruiters told Scott that he would have no chance of enlistment because his Juggalo-themed tattoos were classified as gang-affiliated by the FBI. Scott spent over $800 to have his Juggalo tattoos covered with new images, but his application to the military was still denied.

Robert Hellin is a decorated Army specialist who has proudly represented Juggalos in the military. To Robert, being a Juggalo means being tolerant of others and giving back to your community. These are values he uses when acting as a first responder to military aircraft wreckages, disarming the aircraft and rescuing survivors. Robert is slated to be promoted to Sergeant soon, and even had the honor of flying a Hatchetman flag over Afghanistan with the permission of his Unit Captain.

Despite his flawless record and his military unit’s understanding of his identity as a Juggalo, Robert is unsure of his military future. Because the FBI has labeled Juggalos as a hybrid gang, Robert risks discipline or even involuntary discharge from the Army at any time simply for expressing himself.

www.aclumich.org...

So now the question I have is this...

Would you have a problem if you were being harassed by law enforcement because you are a member of ATS?

This lawsuit doesn't have anything to do with profits for them, but they don't want their fans to be afraid to express themselves because of some silly classification by the gov't.

And yes I am a fan of ICP and the whole Hatchet Family.

reply to post by ELEVENX

I wouldn't consider ICP fans gang members or a threat more than I would Richard Simmons.

Could you imagine the type of gang that would be with Richard Simmons....Now that would be something to be afraid of.

While ICP isn't music, IMHO(that's a whole other thread) I agree with BFFT, they have the right to speak their minds and their fans have the right to dress any way they want and not be harassed for it. If one person commits a crime then they should be held responsible, not the whole lot of them by association. Last time I checked, being stupid wasn't a crime.

Ok, that's said, now I exercise my rights to bash ICP and their fans, or rather, Stephen Lynch bashes the fans and Justin Timberlake and another SNL dude totally rip ICP as Thrilla Killa Klownz. If you thought that Tosh.0 clip was funny then these clips will make your day. Curbstomp your enthusiasm still kills me and I do hope to one day write a song to go along with that theme.

thisguyrighthere
Now if you are the type of individual to actually care what the FBI thinks then yes this nonsense needs to stop and good for the ACLU backing the lawsuit.

Realistically it wont change a thing and this new America where everyone is a terrorist isn't going to go away despite how many groups sue the feds.

Two ways to beat them: 1) keep suing and fighting in court in perpetuity (even then the feds will just keep doing what they're doing) or 2) stop reacting to their nonsense and just ignore them

If there ever was a group that needed to be shunned and ignored its the federal government.

I guarantee even without the FBI designation these kids who wear clown make-up, vulgar phrases on their clothing, get blackout drunk as a cultural meme would be under police scrutiny anyway and always were.

I have to admit-- this post really struck me as ignorant, and it kind of upset me.

We are not talking about someone calling juggalos names. Not an individual, and not even the media. We are talking about a government agency. And we are not talking about a little minor name calling, we are talking about designation, as criminals, and persons of interest, by a government agency.

Slice it any way you want to, that IS a big deal. Maybe you don't put too much stock into what the FBI thinks, but plenty of average citizens do. And you know who else does? The police. So what this means, is that right now some kid might be getting illegally harrassed by police, simply because he or she is wearing a band t-shirt. You mean to tell me you think that's the kind of thing that should just be "ignored?". IMHO that's ridiculous.


In case you missed it, here's an example of "a person" who "cares what the FBI think":

Kangaruex4Ewe
My daughter's birthday was in November and she turned 16. She is currently in the 10th grade. She came home with a laplander/stocking cap with Jack Skellington printed on it with some crazy coloring here and there. She promptly put the hat on while they were all waiting for the buses to load when the principal came over to her and made her remove it. When she asked why she could not wear the hat, he stated that it was an ICP hat and it promoted gangs and gang like behavior and if he saw it again she would be suspended.

She took the hat off and tried to show him the label inside the hat so he could see that it was The Nightmare Before Christmas and not ICP. He would not look and would not hear it.

Oh, but I guess we should just ignore stuff like that, right?


Further, I take issue with your characterizing ICP fans as people who: "wear clown make-up, vulgar phrases on their clothing, get blackout drunk as a cultural meme."


I hope you realize the painful and almost amusing (were it not so insulting) irony here: With your generalizations, you are doing the exact same thing as the FBI. Good thing your opinion isn't valued by the Law Enforcement community, and good little boot-lickers everywhere. Are there ICP fans out there who are like that? I have no doubt. Just like I have no doubt that there are fans of Metallica, or Nickelback who are like that. (Maybe not the clown makeup part-- but I guess you never know...)

But your broad generalization suggesting this is a norm for ICP fans is prejudicial, and insulting.

And yes, a band like ICP may be more likely to attract a certain type of fan. Just like a band like Slayer, would be more likely to attract a particular type of fan, who would likely be very different than the kind of fans Gospel music would attract. But it's still way overly-assumptive, and over-generalized.

I don't like them quite as much as I did when I was a kid, but I like some of ICP's music. What you wrote doesn't even come close to describing me. Or any of the ICP fans I've known. I have met a few really white trash "look out 'cause I'm a badass gangster" types, who were into ICP. But that is not valid enough reason for law enforcement to treat ICP merchandise the same way they would gang signs / colors.

reply to post by iwilliam


People forgets and needs to be reminded that FBI is not some clown you only dislike, they are the ones that knocks on your door and do stuff like Waco

Waco

reply to post by Indigent


I don't really care for their music, but I wholeheartedly support them. Best of luck to you, you crazy, crazy clowns!

thisguyrighthere
reply to post by thisguyrighthere


It depends on how you look at it. To me assigned designations by the FBI or the SPLC or whoever essentially have the same credibility as the ICP themselves.

Now if you are the type of individual to actually care what the FBI thinks then yes this nonsense needs to stop and good for the ACLU backing the lawsuit.

Realistically it wont change a thing and this new America where everyone is a terrorist isn't going to go away despite how many groups sue the feds.

Two ways to beat them: 1) keep suing and fighting in court in perpetuity (even then the feds will just keep doing what they're doing) or 2) stop reacting to their nonsense and just ignore them

If there ever was a group that needed to be shunned and ignored its the federal government.

Listen, it doesn't matter if you care or not, the reality is this is setting precedent for the FBI to harass anyone for any reason they deem necessary.

The difference in credibility lies in that ICP doesn't have the intent nor means to come up and harass people and lock them up.

You come across as someone who would walk past someone getting mugged or brutalized on the street as long as it's not affecting you. What you seem to fail to realize is that no matter what you believe, or are interested in hearing, you can just as easily be the victim of the right hand of our government. There are a myriad of videos online of police harassing normal people like yourself for no reason at all.

So how long are you going to ignore things like this happening? Until someone you know, or yourself are put into a similar situation? Oh right, it won't happen to you because the FBI doesn't have any credibility. I forgot.

Sorry I don't mean to attack you. It's your mindset and conditioning that I have a problem with. The police are going to continue masquerading around as law enforcement officers when generally (not all of them) just feel like big shots because they carry a gun and a badge. They like to pick on people that don't follow the law, and are not knowledgeable of their rights so the cops sometimes make up rules as they go in hopes of exploiting the victim's ignorance. Either way, a badge does NOT grant, or take away any rights. They are simply meant to uphold the laws our country was founded on.

But back to the FBI. Once again, they are targeting a group of people who may (IMO) listen to horrible music, and generally be have like jackasses, but just because more people don't identify with them, they're willing to ignore it, or even side with the FBI. Sooner or later, someone you know or yourself will be affected by them one day and I hope for your sake other people are willing to step up and defend your rights. I may not personally identify with ICP but I will fight for their right to express themselves.

reply to post by Indigent


Well, if the fans are anything like my I.C.P. loving brother they deserve to be locked behind bars. I swear, my brother is a huge I.C.P. fan and one of the lowest forms of life you can find. Same goes for his friends who are into them.

Of course I may be biased due to my experiences with my brother and his friends. But I doubt it.