Ancient Aliens...The best evidence

reply to post by St Udio


To my understanding that man is just regurgitating the same information that can easily be found on the internet.

No top secret information released pertaining to his position.

In other words: Your average ATSer but with slightly better past credentials.

Im not so sure that stone carvings are the best evidence we have of alien contact...

How about this?

The Orion Connection

OrphanApology
reply to post by St Udio

 

To my understanding that man is just regurgitating the same information that can easily be found on the internet.

No top secret information released pertaining to his position.

In other words: Your average ATSer but with slightly better past credentials.

your opinion is as good as anyone else's
hopefully the posters on this thread will not assume the role of Judge & Jury that the man is whack as you seem to presume

i was just adding contemporary info so that the thread's scope would be widened to include the present claims of Alien presence in our midst....
thanks for the input


BTW nice thread... @ your link reply to post by Akragon

reply to post by tinner07

tinner07
That is interesting. Several of the images have or seem to have 3 fingers. With the detail they used why not 5 fingers? unless they are modeled after some 3 fingered species?

So I guess The Simpsons characters might be modeled after some 4-finger specie too?

reply to post by Mon1k3r


I don't know if you're aware of the quantity and quality of sculpture before those figurines of 7,500 bc but in my opinion there is very little of it, at least preserved, and it is of very lowly quality, even only in terms of artistic development those pieces are exceptional when compared with anything else found in the world, let alone the Ukraine, were there is practically nothing preceding.

In art analysis one look to what has gone before in order to provide context toward understanding, that is lacking here, these appear as if from nowhere, there is no understandable function or derivative for them, particularly the males one's, for the female a standard response can be something to do with fertility/procreation, and yet that is not reflected in the male counterparts.


reply to post by Mamatus


Here's the thing, it deeply concerns me that what i consider important evidence for extra-terrestrial contact is being ignored by the academic community whilst they offer no plausible counter argument, that it is only ever presented in a farcical manner in shows such as Ancient Aliens that knowingly misrepresent and bring into disrepute and ridicule anything and everything they ever touch.

When the trouble is taken to present the evidence in a serious and respectful attitude toward it and in response it is seen as merely an opportunity to laugh at the expense of an obese woman then in my opinion that's sad and it does not make me feel in anyway inclined to lighten up...sometimes i just get tired of clowns.

reply to post by Akragon


I did qualify the consideration by adding in terms of representational art, others of course might think more in terms of possible advanced construction methods used or what you present.

reply to post by Kantzveldt


I do a lot of sculpting in clay. those "human"forms are the most viable if you want the figures to last for a longer period.
you dont want to make thin pertruding forms if you want your "art" to last.
I think that the ancients had the skill to make clay figures look more human, but due to flimsy construction those might have
just been lost to time.
And those markings remind me more of scarring and tattos than some spacesuit,
considering atleast 1 of the female sculpts have those same markings and a visible vulva, it seems that there are no connection
between the stripes and some kind of suit.
its not that strange that fertility and health would be assotiated with fat looking figures, you can find many more cultures that
use that fat image of a healthy woman.
But they are great as sculptures and im very inspired looking at them.

Kantzveldt

In art analysis one look to what has gone before in order to provide context toward understanding, that is lacking here, these appear as if from nowhere...

These are the clues that really mean something. When you cannot see a natural progression of the art into that thing in question, when you cannot detect the creativity unfolding, when all of a sudden humans have learned a new trick, but seem to have not had to learn all the tricks that would necessarily precede it...

Why does THAT happen?

reply to post by Akragon


skimmed your thread and noticed that you left out the Anasazi.

Even the Nazca lines has orion in it...

I think they were ET markers laying claim to those regions or maybe even the entire planet for that matter (intended for other ETs that's why they can best be appreciated from the sky) but of course I am just speculating

reject
reply to post by Akragon

 

skimmed your thread and noticed that you left out the Anasazi.

Even the Nazca lines has orion in it...

I think they were ET markers laying claim to those regions or maybe even the entire planet for that matter (intended for other ETs that's why they can best be appreciated from the sky) but of course I am just speculating

Actually there is several other places were Orion is clearly shown... but I was trying to focus on the pyramids around the world

Ancient civilizations wouldn't build such gigantic structures just for fun... especially on four different continents

thanks for your reply though... Perhaps you might consider making a thread on your findings

Double frickin post

reply to post by Kantzveldt


This is a very interesting collection of artifacts but its hardly evidence for anything extraterrestrial. This is no more evidence of aliens than a Picaso painting will be a few thousand years from now (or a Superman comic for that matter). Cultural and artistic styles are hardly evidence for alien visitation. Even if we discovered writings from the ancient past accompanying all these statuettes that claimed they were depictions of visiting gods from the heavens above that wouldn't be evidence, it would be mythology.

Who is it, exactly, that dictates that aliens would even be humanoid? This seems like a convention of science fiction to me and nothing more. The idea that they look almost just like us seems similar to the way gods used to be depicted, anthropomorphism. Sure some ancient deities are fanciful, blending animals, human, and fantasy elements, but many were depicted as essentially human in form. So it makes sense to anthropomorphize our alien visitors too but all of that is mere fiction and to posit that the aliens are indeed visiting us and are indeed humanoid requires evidence all its own.

Now maybe if these figurines were made of some element foreign to the periodic table before their discovery or gave off some kind of electromagnetic radiation only detected in space or hummed the tune from Close Encounters when vibrated at the right frequency or something, then maybe we could say they were something extraterrestrial or at least extraordinary.

For now they are just interesting artifacts from human history. Still, at the very least all this talk of ancient aliens should get some folks interested in archaeology and maybe launch a few careers even. Gotta look on the bright side I guess.

reply to post by Curious69


But consider the slender arms on some examples, it is neither practical or naturalistic, indeed many have broken off, and as a sculptor you should note the unusual manner in which the arm is across the chest in some examples across both cultures, try finding similar any period any culture, thus i find it remarkable that something so quirky should be common to both.

The evidence in terms of the female figurines that the markings seen there could be upon the actual body and not representing costume is ambiguous, a case can be made for both, in terms of the diagonal red and black patterns seen that can only ever be costume.

I don't consider that the females generally are 'fat' in appearance, certainly not the clearly costumed ones, they are remarkably slender and graceful for the period, it is possible there is emphasis and exaggeration in the undressed versions in order to demonstrate a sexual/fertility association as i pointed out.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


I could point out to you all the traditions and artists that Picasso plundered and plagiarized, explain what he did and why he did it, i cannot do the same with these, and seemingly neither can anyone else.

Why should two cultures so seperate in time and space develop conventions of representation that have so much in common and make for the same anomalous depictions when those same traits aren't found preceding them nor even are they found following them to the same mode of singular expression of iconograpic form, these aren't in any way natural figurines for primitive societies to produce, what is the source of inspiration and what is the intent?

Does anyone have any thoughts on the likeness of these little clay sculptures being so similar from two different places and two different time periods? I also find that very intriguing. Thank you Kantz for linking them together here for us.

After doing some quick research, I have found the consensus of the ones from Japan being used as a healing figure. You would break the little thing and then throw it into a trash heap. So where did the Vinca come up with theirs? And is it thought they used them in the same way?


ETA - I now see Kantz had the same thought as me in the post above. You beat me to it Kantz.

Mamatus
What makes you think it has to be aliens? Could'a just been this womans ancestors.

OMG....ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Doodle19815
Does anyone have any thoughts on the likeness of these little clay sculptures being so similar from two different places and two different time periods? I also find that very intriguing.

So do I. Given the findings of comparative religion, comparative mythology, comparative mysticism I'm not surprised to see it though. Humanity shares a spiritual heritage. I believe the amazing similarities throughout world religion and myth are due to the simple fact that we all share a level of consciousness - Jungs collective unconscious.

reply to post by Kantzveldt

i cannot do the same with these, and seemingly neither can anyone else.

]Picaso is recent, these figures are not, so it makes sense that they are an enigma. I'm not an archaeologist. I have no idea what was going on in the heads of these people or why they made these statuettes the way they did but they hardly appear to suggest alien visitation. It takes one hell of a leap and a stretch of the imagination to get close to aliens, and, as I said, the assumption that aliens are humanoid.

what is the source of inspiration and what is the intent?

Different cultures across the world have a lot of similar mythologies (dragons appear in many cultures, as do giants, etc), artistic styles and other similarities many of which are even pointed to as evidence of ancient aliens. The pyramid connection is the most commonly stated one, why so many pyramids on so many different continents made by so many different cultures spread out across multiple millennia?

I'm sure the answers to questions like these, while fascinating, do not require or even imply anything so absurd as alien intervention. As I said we aren't dealing with any overly inexplicable anomaly with these figurines, just a mystery in history.

Sticking in ancient aliens to every mystery or gap we encounter in our knowledge of the past is a fallacious argument. First they beg the question, "How did they get the stones so high?" "How could ancient primitive man have built the pyramids so quickly and so precisely that even modern machinery would struggle to do it?" etc

Why should two cultures so seperate in time and space develop conventions of representation that have so much in common and make for the same anomalous depictions

I don't know but aliens isn't even a good explanation, it certainly isn't a reasonable or plausible explanation and it has no evidence of any kind to back it up.

We want to know the REAL answer, don't we? Yet every time archaeologists try to posit a plausible explanation ancient astronaut believers usually throw it out. I mean look how many different hypotheses there are for building the pyramids and look at all the facts we do have about them (we even know where they quarried the stone from) and yet ancient astronaut proponents throw all of that away to wallow in a fantasy world. (please note, I'm not accusing you of any of this, just speaking of ancient astronaut "theory" in general).

History is interesting, and there are many things we don't know because of just how old humanity is compared to how old the bulk of civilization is but I just don't see any evidence for alien visitation.

Blue Shift
As with all attempts at "best evidence," my comment is once again, "If this is the best we've got, then it's all a load of crap."

you can't look at it as isolated, compartmentalized, separate subjects. Maybe we should take our ancestors literally when they not only make figurines of, but also tell us of physical encounters with, those exact people?

Have you seen any neolithic art from the America's that would conform to the same design?

Kantzveldt
reply to post by Curious69

 

But consider the slender arms on some examples, it is neither practical or naturalistic, indeed many have broken off, and as a sculptor you should note the unusual manner in which the arm is across the chest in some examples across both cultures, try finding similar any period any culture, thus i find it remarkable that something so quirky should be common to both.

The evidence in terms of the female figurines that the markings seen there could be upon the actual body and not representing costume is ambiguous, a case can be made for both, in terms of the diagonal red and black patterns seen that can only ever be costume.

I don't consider that the females generally are 'fat' in appearance, certainly not the clearly costumed ones, they are remarkably slender and graceful for the period, it is possible there is emphasis and exaggeration in the undressed versions in order to demonstrate a sexual/fertility association as i pointed out.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull

 

I could point out to you all the traditions and artists that Picasso plundered and plagiarized, explain what he did and why he did it, i cannot do the same with these, and seemingly neither can anyone else.

Why should two cultures so seperate in time and space develop conventions of representation that have so much in common and make for the same anomalous depictions when those same traits aren't found preceding them nor even are they found following them to the same mode of singular expression of iconograpic form, these aren't in any way natural figurines for primitive societies to produce, what is the source of inspiration and what is the intent?

edit on Kpm1317vAmerica/ChicagoWednesday0831 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)

"quote" in terms of the diagonal red and black patterns seen that can only ever be costume."end quote"
If i understand you right the coloured patterns can only represent a costume? many cultures even today use different earth colours
smearing it on their skin. i dont see the need for it to be anything else.
I like martians as much as the next guy, but these figures just look like primitive idols to me and nothing else.
noone of us knows how those people were reasoning,it will come down to guesses why they made the things the way they did.
Quote"I don't consider that the females generally are 'fat' in appearance, certainly not the clearly costumed ones,"end quote"
You dont consider them fat? well maybe you are just in denial, they are clearly made to look overweight.
Wich ones are clearly costumed please point me to 1. must be possible if it is so clear!
i only see possible scarification jewellery and tattoos.
Btw. im the owner of 9½ fingers due to a accident. im not alien as far as i know.

Just a pic for reference purposes.

HTH