Our Big Mistake: The Personification of 'God'

reply to post by Dark Ghost


This might sound strange, but you should look into the region of Islam, Personally Iv looked into every major religion and Islam is the only one that has emphasis and practices uniqueness of god:

---112 Surat Al-'Ikhlāş (The Sincerity)---

Say, "He is Allah , [who is] One, (the only, the completely unique)

Allah , the Eternal Refuge, self sufficient master, that everything needs.

He neither begets nor is born,

Nor is there to Him any equivalent nor co-equal."

reply to post by limpingMosquito


The description of 'God' is already there in 'Veda', the ancient book of knowledge.

Islam is a very recent religion, and has clearly borrowed from knowledge already available at that time. The Arabs were trading with India for more than 3000 years.

There is nothing new or unique in Islam.

reply to post by Dark Ghost

They will transform the concept of a non-comprehensible force into an anthropomorphism such as an invisible, old, man dressed in glowing white attire whom watches over people to see that they uphold his commandments and follow his rules.

I think that is the correct approach and can't imagine why you would object to it.
The "force" is a creation, and if you worship it, then that is the Beast.

reply to post by Dark Ghost

Personification of God, may lead one to idolatry;
the breaking of the 2nd Commandment:

Thou shalt not make unto thee
any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above,
or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth...

You saw no form of any kind the day the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire.

Therefore watch yourselves very carefully, so that you do not become corrupt
and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman,
or like any animal on earth or any bird that flies in the air,
or like any creature that moves along the ground or any fish in the waters below.

And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars—all the heavenly array—
do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things,
the Lord your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven.

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked:
who can know it?

it is not mistake, it is natural and expected.. as what others have pointed out, we personify things we don't quite understand yet.. its what every child does to his/her own imagination, in reveries or daydreams or daily interactions.. i used to talk to the sun when i was in grade school, or the trees and plants around me, even some birds and our chickens, ducks and pigs and imagine what they respond.. as far as i can remember at least.. but as i grew up, i've formulated my own clear-cut definition of those things, but since they are living things, i still personify to some degree..

as for God, maybe deep inside on rare occasions i still personify God, but mostly i just don't entertain the thoughts anymore because its too big for my little brain to comprehend.. lots of people gone crazy for trying to understand God, i want to keep my sanity to closer more finite things.

but its not mistake to personify God.. just be careful with one's thoughts that they don't control you instead better you controlling them for good harmony with others.

How could it be a mistake when the book says we were made in his image? We are persons he has to be too. If you believe in that sort of thing. I don't.

I'm not sure if anybody has posted anything similar as to what I'm about to say, so please accept my apologies if that is the case. I believe in the fact that we are made in God's image. I agree when you say that personifying God is a mistake. God is everywhere, and God is everything. He is every atom in the Universe, every chemical bond, every element that we know of. So when it is said that we are made in His image I believe that means that every element present in our bodies is in fact a part of God. In my opinion we have to look a bit deeper, past the fact that we are just human beings. We have to consider ourselves living chemical bonds. That is how I believe we are "made in His image". When we say he is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end we have to take into consideration what this really means. Every blade of grass, every grain of salt and every living organism is a representation of God.

A higher being; God, within my framework of understanding could/should be able to take the form and speak the language he/she desires. For we lower beings; creation, constitute its creation. Thus understanding only what that higher being wants us to be revealed about his/her personality based on mind constructions pre-loaded by his own hand.

Raised Catholic, non-practicing parents (Church), bible in the house never tought how to read it or why to read it. 2 years ago babtized as a Christian my by own choice. Everything that i ask God with a humble heart he grants. But remember its you who needs to work for it, God grants it, but you work for it.

"I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, and create EVIL.
I the LORD do all these things." – Isaiah 45.7

YHWH has a human form

This link has a lot more exerts
I find it interesting that God has a staff.


-Yahweh Appears to Gideon

Just as Yahweh told them He would do, He removed His protective hedge from around the Children of Israel because of their sins. They had not obeyed Him so they had to defend themselves. During Gideon’s day, God allowed Midian to invade Israel and steal their crops and flocks. Things were so bad in Israel that Gideon was forced to hide his wheat to keep the Midianites from taking it.

Yahweh appeared to Gideon in Ophrah. He sat down under an oak tree and said, “Yahweh is with you, O valiant warrior.” (Judges 6: 12) He meant it literally because He was with Gideon in Person at that moment, but it took Gideon by surprise since he was not a warrior. However, Yahweh saw what Gideon would become and declared that he was, in fact, a warrior.

Gideon did not realize he was talking to Yahweh in Person, and with a skeptical tone in his voice he asked, “O my lord, if Yahweh is with us, why has all this happened? And where are all His miracles which our fathers told us about…?” (Judges 6: 13)

Yahweh simply looked at him and told him to go and deliver Israel. Then He said, “Surely I will be with you, and you shall defeat Midian as one man.” (Judges 6: 16)

Gideon remained doubtful, but he did not want to offend the Man so he invited Him to stay and share a meal. Yahweh accepted his invitation, and He waited patiently while Gideon prepared meat and bread. When Gideon brought the meal to Yahweh, He told him to place it on a nearby rock. Then Yahweh touched the food with the end of His staff, and fire came up out of the rock and consumed it. Immediately Yahweh vanished.

At that moment, Gideon knew he had been talking with God Himself, and he said, “Alas, O Adonai Yahweh! For now I have seen Yahweh face to face.” (Judges 6: 22) Then Gideon heard Yahweh say these words: “Peace to you, do not fear; you shall not die.” (Judges 6: 23)

It took Gideon a little time to understand what Yahweh wanted him to do, and he needed constant reassurance. However, eventually Gideon delivered Israel from Midian under the miraculous guidance of Yahweh, and he turned the hearts and minds of the Children of Israel back to their God.-





Star and flag for post. Interesting thread. A God in Man's Image

"The Lord is a man of war; Yahweh is his name." – Exodus 15.3.

"Yahweh", in fact, is an abbreviation of the longer name, "Yahweh Sabaoth." It means, "He who musters armies."

SkyLiner
reply to post by Dark Ghost

 

Personification of God, may lead one to idolatry;
the breaking of the 2nd Commandment:

Thou shalt not make unto thee
any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above,
or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth...

You saw no form of any kind the day the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire.

Therefore watch yourselves very carefully, so that you do not become corrupt
and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman,
or like any animal on earth or any bird that flies in the air,
or like any creature that moves along the ground or any fish in the waters below.

And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars—all the heavenly array—
do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things,
the Lord your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven.

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked:
who can know it?

I think you missed the point of the command:

It didn't say

Thou shalt not personify unto thee

But:

Thou shalt not make unto thee
any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above,
or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth...

That is, an IMAGE or any likeness of him - an idol.

Otherwise the following words will have no real meaning and will not help us (humans) to know God well especially his attributes.

Notice:

"21 And Jehovah smelled a sweet savour; and Jehovah said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done." --Genesis 8:21;

"And I will stretch out my hand, and smite Egypt with all my wonders which I will do in the midst thereof: and after that he will let you go." -- Exodus 3:20

"And with the blast of thy nostrils the waters were gathered together, the floods stood upright as an heap, and the depths were congealed in the heart of the sea." -- Exodus 15:8

"18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God." -- Exodus 31:18

"21 And Samuel heard all the words of the people, and he rehearsed them in the ears of Jehovah." -- 1 Samuel 8:21

"9 Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him?" -- Job 40:9

"17 Jehovah, thou hast heard the desire of the humble: thou wilt prepare their heart, thou wilt cause thine ear to hear:"-- Psalm 10:17

"18 Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them." -- Ezekiel 8:17

"11 My son, be wise, and make my heart glad, that I may answer him that reproacheth me." -- Proverbs 27:11

"20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you." - Luke 11:20

"38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the LORD( Jehovah Isa 53:1 ) been revealed?" -- John 12:38

" 21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people." -- Romans 10:21

"13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do." -- Hebrews 4:13

So really, Jehovah God is a real Person but a spirit Being - of higher STUFF than humans.

"24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." -- John 4:24

Otherwise to whom Jesus appeared to when he went back to heaven?

"24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us" -- Heb 9:24

A force?

"39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory." -- 1 Cor 15: 39-41

Source: Divine Name KJV:
dnkjb.net...

I am inclined to say the whole concept of god is a big mistake and an insult to man whether personified or not. It makes you the poor bugger that is subservient and dependent. The concept takes god out of the domain of man into a domain that cannot be reached, comprehended or known. In other words, it severed your connection with existence and provided one more means to cause separation, division and confusion. What did you lose then? At least, your own connection with existence as it is enforced from the outside as dogma. Maybe your dignity as well, since you are now dependent on gods mercy and his supposed omnipotence and omniscience took away your free will as he has predestined everything. Worst of all, it does not require any effort on your part, at least if christianity is concerned, you just have to believe. The perfect tool to keep you ignorant and easily manipulated.

God was the invention of the priest who noticed that by capitalizing on the notion that he is the anointed mediator between man and god, he has put himself into a position of power. Would this be about the time when god became personified instead of being a personal experience? Religion might have been born at the same time as well. It is hard to set up organized religion if every one has their own experience and interpretation of god or existence and claims it is the only right and correct interpretation.

reply to post by TatTvamAsi


First, we need to separate 'God' from 'religion'.

Like sun gives light and heat to earth, and earth goes around the sun; God is a reality that does not change due to beliefs.

God sustains all humans - those who believe and those who do not believe. It is not the nature of God to force people into believing something.

However God has rules for humans and some societies have adopted these rules as laws for the benefit of people.

A society that functions as per God's rules is peaceful and prosperous. People life happily and without disease and get spiritually advanced easily in such society.

reply to post by edmc^2


So what's your point?

AfterInfinity
reply to post by edmc^2

 

So what's your point?

Nothing wrong or that it's a mistake to personify God since He is PERSONIFIED in the Scriptures.

edmc^2

AfterInfinity
reply to post by edmc^2

 

So what's your point?

Nothing wrong or that it's a mistake to personify God since He is PERSONIFIED in the Scriptures.

When discussing the matter with uneducated sheepherders, what else would you suggest doing? How do you explain the theory of relativity to a farmer who has never even heard of atoms? This is the problem I have with theism. It does not teach you how to think, it teaches you WHAT to think. And that is a very dangerous and unhelpful habit to develop in a scientific world.

reply to post by AnuTyr


Heres a bit of proof according to your bible that YHWH is NOT God....

Yahweh appeared to Gideon in Ophrah. He sat down under an oak tree and said, “Yahweh is with you, O valiant warrior.” (Judges 6: 12)

Yahweh simply looked at him and told him to go and deliver Israel. Then He said, “Surely I will be with you, and you shall defeat Midian as one man.” (Judges 6: 16)

At that moment, Gideon knew he had been talking with God Himself, and he said, “Alas, O Adonai Yahweh! For now I have seen Yahweh face to face.” (Judges 6: 22)


Then along comes Jesus... and one of the first things John writes about him...

John 1

18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him

Jesus Vs. The Imposter

AfterInfinity

edmc^2

AfterInfinity
reply to post by edmc^2

 

So what's your point?

Nothing wrong or that it's a mistake to personify God since He is PERSONIFIED in the Scriptures.

When discussing the matter with uneducated sheepherders, what else would you suggest doing? How do you explain the theory of relativity to a farmer who has never even heard of atoms? This is the problem I have with theism. It does not teach you how to think, it teaches you WHAT to think. And that is a very dangerous and unhelpful habit to develop in a scientific world.

edit on 10-1-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

This is the problem I have with theism. It does not teach you how to think, it teaches you WHAT to think.

This is the problem with generalities and lumping people into ONE group. It paints all as "mind numb robots". Unable to think for themselves.

You should have said "This is the problem I have with SOME in theism."

Otherwise, the many great scientist/mathematicians who profess to be theist (like Sir Isaac Newton, Kepler, Joseph Priestly, Michael Faraday, Guglielmo Marconi, etc) were really none thinkers - like you said.


en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by GargIndia

A society that functions as per God's rules is peaceful and prosperous. People life happily and without disease and get spiritually advanced easily in such society.

What?!!

Who is it, then, that we should ask: 'What are God's rules'?

I don't see ANY society that is living 'happily and without disease.' What I see on a global scale is horrible, deadly strife.

Yeah, sure, in my neighborhood it's "relatively" quiet. But at 1:54 am (this morning), I was awakened by the sound of a 13-round magazine.

Two blocks down the street is a nursing home. Across from that is 'social housing', and further south is a high-rise that is for the mentally disabled..... Next door is a Church.

Ironically, the 'Police Traffic Patrol' is just on the other side of the strip mall that separates it from the 'high-rise'. But they don't get dispatched for 'gun-fire' reports. Did anyone show up? I don't know. But last time it happened (a block or two away from this episode), several cruisers were there for several hours.....

The difference within those few blocks, of 'types' of human beings, is quite alarming. I could rant on, but I won't.

reply to post by edmc^2

This is the problem with generalities and lumping people into ONE group. It paints all as "mind numb robots". Unable to think for themselves.

Oh, so you do understand what I'm seeing.

You should have said "This is the problem I have with SOME in theism."

Clearly you've already understood what I meant, so that is now a redundant correction.

Otherwise, the many great scientist/mathematicians who profess to be theist (like Sir Isaac Newton, Kepler, Joseph Priestly, Michael Faraday, Guglielmo Marconi, etc) were really none thinkers - like you said.

And exactly what caliber of "theist" were these men? Did they address or refer to their respective deities as though they were flesh-and-blood entities as well? They, of all people, would have been able to appreciate the utterly unreconcilable nature of putting Yehovah's supernatural attributes in such a physically-constrained vessel. You do not put fire in an ice cube. As such, crediting Yehobah as having an anatomy or form comparable to that of such base organisms as ourselves is as foolish as assuming that a superhero would have all the stature and psychological disposition of an autistic four year old. After all, what is a god without grandeur? And since when has the human form or human essence been synonymous with any concept resembling grandeur, particularly in the eyes of popular religion?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Clearly, you don't understand what is MEANT by personification!

But just to give you an idea (although I'm sure you wont even agree with the definitions), here are some definitions and examples of PERSONIFICATION.

personification

Personification means "giving humans qualities to an abstract idea," as in a movie villain who is the personification of evil.

You can use the noun personification in two ways. In the first, a person who is known for a certain quality, like wisdom, is said to represent that quality in a way any can understand, like a patient, generous person who is the personification of kindness. On the other hand, personification can give human qualities to something that isn’t human. For example, you might say, “The sea is angry,” assigning it a human emotion.

USAGE EXAMPLES

This personification of evil has implications beyond the supernatural, influencing how we think about what it means for people to be “pure evil.”
Scientific American Oct 29, 2013
"Twitter is very much a personification of that."
Reuters Sep 13, 2013
To his critics, he has become the personification of the Fed’s intransigence, the power behind the throne.
New York Times Jul 31, 2013
Its history was the history of a managerial type of care; now it's a gothic personification of itself.

per·son·i·fi·ca·tion (pr-sn-f-kshn)

n. 1. The act of personifying.

2. A person or thing typifying a certain quality or idea; an embodiment or exemplification: "He's invisible, a walking personification of the Negative" (Ralph Ellison).
3. A figure of speech in which inanimate objects or abstractions are endowed with human qualities or are represented as possessing human form, as in Hunger sat shivering on the road or Flowers danced about the lawn. Also called prosopopeia.
4. Artistic representation of an abstract quality or idea as a person.

www.thefreedictionary.com...

Examples of Personification

Everyone knows what a person is, but do you know what personification is? Personification is when you assign the qualities of a person to something that isn't human or, in some cases, to something that isn't even alive. There are many reasons for using personification. It can be used as a method of describing something so that others can understand. It can be used to emphasize a point. It is a commonly favored literary tool, and you may in fact use personification without even knowing it.

50 Ways to Use Personification

The following sentences use the personification technique. See if you can identify which part of the word or phrase is the personification. The answers are below:

The stars danced playfully in the moonlit sky.
The run down house appeared depressed.
The first rays of morning tiptoed through the meadow.
She did not realize that opportunity was knocking at her door.
He did not realize that his last chance was walking out the door.
The bees played hide and seek with the flowers as they buzzed from one to another.
The wind howled its mighty objection.
The snow swaddled the earth like a mother would her infant child.
The river swallowed the earth as the water continued to rise higher and higher.
Time flew and before we knew it, it was time for me to go home.
The ocean waves lashed out at the boat and the storm continued to brew.
My computer throws a fit every time I try to use it.
The thunder grumbled like an old man.
The flowers waltzed in the gentle breeze.
Her life passed her by.
The sun glared down at me from the sky.
The moon winked at me through the clouds above.
The wind sang through the meadow.
The car was suffering and was in need of some TLC.
At precisely 6:30 am my alarm clock sprang to life.
The window panes were talking as the wind blew through them.
The ocean danced in the moonlight.
The words appeared to leap off of the paper as she read the story.
The phone awakened with a mighty ring.
The funeral raced by me in a blur.
While making my way to my car, it appeared to smile at me mischievously.
The car, painted lime green, raced by screaming for attention.
The butterflies in the meadow seemed to two-step with one another.
The waffle jumped up out of the toaster.
The popcorn leapt out of the bowl.
When the DVD went on sale, it flew off the shelves.
I tripped because the curb jumped out in front of me.
Time creeps up on you.
The news took me by surprise.
The fire ran wild.
The thunder clapped angrily in the distance.
The tornado ran through town without a care.
The door protested as it opened slowly.
The evil tree was lurking in the shadows.
The tree branch moaned as I swung from it.
Time marches to the beat of its own drum.
The storm attacked the town with great rage.
My life came screeching to a halt.
The baseball screamed all the way into the outfield.
The blizzard swallowed the town.
The tsunami raced towards the coastline.
The avalanche devoured everything in its path.
The pistol glared at me from its holster.
The car beckoned me from across the showroom.
I could hear Hawaii calling my name.

good luck.