For the sake of argument, let’s admit that God exists.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

All you do is repeat the same mantra, but maybe it will get you where you need to be.

This all started when you intejected yourself into a back and forth between two others that where not you and while we may all be the one, the rules of engagment state that in this illusion you buted in.

No problem.

You know, I've made a thread about finding God and all that. And I did. In a way unlike contrary belief the God is not personified. In fact we are apart of it and it is apart of us.

I've take the Hermetic outlook on it. The All. The All is One and the One is All. There can be nothing outside of The All or it could not be called The All.

There is no sin. Everything happens exactly the way it's supposed to. There are no 'Commandments'. Simply Laws of the Universe.

It's quite interesting. It really is just a way of giving the Universe power to our perception.

I believe the Vedas are on something of the similar belief.

Although, I really don't like call this.. God. That word is disrespectful to our existence imho.

daskakik
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

All you do is repeat the same mantra, but maybe it will get you where you need to be.

This all started when you intejected yourself into a back and forth between two others that where not you and while we may all be the one, the rules of engagment state that in this illusion you buted in.

No problem.

I repeat the same truth - I do not have versions of truth.
Thank you for playing.

reply to post by galastry

Where you there?

daskakik
All you do is repeat the same mantra, but maybe it will get you where you need to be.

There is nowhere I need to be - I am/this is being all there is.

reply to post by daskakik


Where do you think you need to be? Where do you think you are going?

reply to post by Itisnowagain

Good for you. This is where you stop participating and I follow you.

reply to post by Mizzijr


Agreed.

daskakik
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Good for you. This is where you stop participating and I follow you.

What does that mean?
Do you understand (follow) what I have been saying?

reply to post by Itisnowagain


It means that we are here. Now is all that is.

I'm still waiting for the final release and your still asking questions.

daskakik
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

It means that we are here. Now is all that is.

I'm still waiting for the final release and your still asking questions.

Here is what there is.

The final release will be when the added person is found to be non existent - here is all there is.
Here is existence existing.

daskakik
reply to post by galastry

 

Where you there?

There was no me and thus i was nowhere. What was was bliss and peace

ItisnowagainHere is existence existing.

And asking questions.

great

daskakik

ItisnowagainHere is existence existing.

And asking questions.

great

The appearance is saying wake up - apparent reality is the lover that never leaves.

reply to post by galastry

Sounds intersting. How did you get there?

How did you know it was you being nowhere?

reply to post by Itisnowagain

I'm wide awake and have no lover by my side.

Still, I don't seem to be in the same situation as you.

Aphorism

For the sake of argument, let’s admit that God exists.

 

If it doesn’t exist, then what are we talking about? What is it that atheists are denying? What is it that theists pray to? What is it agnostics care not to decide about?

We cannot logically deny nothing, for there is nothing there to logically deny. We cannot pray to nothing, for there is nothing there to pray to. We cannot choose not to decide about nothing, because there is nothing there to choose not to decide about. Ex nihilo nihil fit. “God doesn’t exist” is an incomplete proposition.

The question isn’t whether God exists or not, but how it exists—or more clearly—what it exists as. What is it we are talking about in regards to “God”?

To move this ancient stalemate forward, it might be a good idea to come to terms over what we are actually talking about in its regard.

“God” exists at least as the subject of our propositions. Every subject of every proposition requires an existing subject to form a proposition about. Therefor, God exists as the subject of our propositions. But what existing subject, what idea, are these propositions derived from? Where does the subject of God come from? All theological sources for God comes from biblical sources. “God” is a word in those bibles denoting and describing a specific character of these books. Therefor, God exists as a character in a book. In many classical forms of art, God is often depicted as a bearded being in the clouds. Therefor, God exists as an artist’s depiction and interpretation of this character from biblical sources.

Plainly stated, since God is only ever found within books, art, rhetoric and from various forms of human expression—indeed, we cannot know about God any other way—we must assume that this is as what, as where, and as how, God exists. This subject we can deny or have an opinion about; this character we pray to; this character we refuse to contemplate. From what we can confirm, it exists as a word in its fundamental form. All talk about God is talk about this word.

With this idea, and the admittance of the existence of God as apparent and real in these formats, we no longer need to debate the non-existence of something (a contradiction), as we admit that it exists as at least something (not nothing) that we can have an opinion on. We can instead prove that it does exist, and this is what it exists as, and we can logically discuss its properties. We may even open scripture to prove it’s existence as scripture. If it exists as anything else wiil need to be proven otherwise.

Therefor, I agree with the theists that God exists, but only insofar as it exists as a word in a book. But does it exist as anything else?

All words are expressions of ideas. It may be the expression of a shared idea that we consider concrete, e.g. cup, sun, water, etc. or it may be something more open to interpretation, interpolation and/or association, e.g. emotions, morality, god, etc.

If you accept god exists because it is an idea we express in various ways then by the same token you must accept 'nothing' is an idea we can express in various ways.

'Nothing' is much more open to interpretation but it is still an expression of an idea nevertheless, and we can deny the idea of 'nothing' as valid and still be perfectly logical. I do agree however that 'god doesn't exist' is not a position one can reasonably argue from because 'god' is very clearly an expressible idea, if one is talking purely about the idea in general terms. However, the assertion that god does not exist from an atheist point of view is more complex. Because the idea of god's non-existence is tied to the idea of atheism it has a very specific meaning.

Ideas in isolation are easily dealt with but we do not exist in a world of single ideological constructs, rather our ideas are a rich tapestry of interconnected metaphors for our experiences. If god exists in art then god exists as an idea that has grown out of our personal or shared experiences of the world. What we can never do is deny other people's ideas about their experience of the world we can only deny our own ideas about our experiences of the world. Otherwise (to paraphrase Democritus) we are just a bunch of atoms and empty space with opinions.

daskakik
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

I'm wide awake and have no lover by my side.

Still, I don't seem to be in the same situation as you.

What do you suppose will happen when the 'final release' comes?

daskakik
reply to post by galastry

 

Sounds intersting. How did you get there?

How did you know it was you being nowhere?

There was no plan getting there. There was intense suffering for many years that caused a breakdown and realisation. I was not nowhere either. There was no knowing there was a profound wordless understanding

galastry

daskakik
reply to post by galastry

 

Sounds intersting. How did you get there?

How did you know it was you being nowhere?

There was no plan getting there. There was intense suffering for many years that caused a breakdown and realisation. I was not nowhere either. There was no knowing there was a profound wordless understanding

Got me thinking back.. i remember doing kind of deep meditation even thought i had no consept of such things at the time.. a huge weight lifted away.. then lighteness feeling of floating.. a light from above i didint go for it though fully. Remember holding back