Mirage Men is out.

a reply to: 1ofthe9

Here is what I think presently: It is real. 75% of what the average witness sees is human technology. That technology includes vehicles capable of going from ground to beyond orbit. In the remaining 25% is to be found ET craft, among other things. ET population includes humans, maybe a lot more than what ufology has speculated. ET has and continues to come here. It doesn't make a crap's worth of difference in the lives of average people. I do not think ETs are more morally advanced than we are just because they may have more advanced technology. I distrust "space brother" dogma. I'm not interested in the 'Roy Neary' experience. Some ETs have manipulated the hell out of us via organized religion. That said, I'm not an atheist, as I see a distinction between God(s) and religions. And that said, I am highly skeptical of groups who see ET as some sign of the coming of God(s). To paraphrase James T Kirk: "What does God need with a starship?" I think Roswell was an event that happened on multiple levels, including as a composite of multiple events. I think Kecksburg was The Bell. I don't know why the Rendlesham Forest incident is so fascinating to some. I do not think disclosure is coming as such. I think ufology has been duped and affected by activities related to Andrija Puharich. I am thoroughly bored with discussions about people's sightings of UFOs. Likewise the ET hypothesis as the answer to the mystery. As stated above, of course ET is part of it, but I think there is more to it and that is more fascinating to me. I think a ufo researcher should conduct a thorough investigation for a period of at least five years without intention of writing a book and without saying anything publicly about that investigation -- and see what emerges under those circumstances. I think that what I think doesn't mean jack, nor should it, to someone interested in finding the truth.

Those are the things I think about UFOs.

originally posted by: WalterBosley
a reply to: 1ofthe9

Here is what I think presently: It is real. 75% of what the average witness sees is human technology. That technology includes vehicles capable of going from ground to beyond orbit. In the remaining 25% is to be found ET craft, among other things. ET population includes humans, maybe a lot more than what ufology has speculated. ET has and continues to come here. It doesn't make a crap's worth of difference in the lives of average people. I do not think ETs are more morally advanced than we are just because they may have more advanced technology. I distrust "space brother" dogma. I'm not interested in the 'Roy Neary' experience. Some ETs have manipulated the hell out of us via organized religion. That said, I'm not an atheist, as I see a distinction between God(s) and religions. And that said, I am highly skeptical of groups who see ET as some sign of the coming of God(s). To paraphrase James T Kirk: "What does God need with a starship?" I think Roswell was an event that happened on multiple levels, including as a composite of multiple events. I think Kecksburg was The Bell. I don't know why the Rendlesham Forest incident is so fascinating to some. I do not think disclosure is coming as such. I think ufology has been duped and affected by activities related to Andrija Puharich. I am thoroughly bored with discussions about people's sightings of UFOs. Likewise the ET hypothesis as the answer to the mystery. As stated above, of course ET is part of it, but I think there is more to it and that is more fascinating to me. I think a ufo researcher should conduct a thorough investigation for a period of at least five years without intention of writing a book and without saying anything publicly about that investigation -- and see what emerges under those circumstances. I think that what I think doesn't mean jack, nor should it, to someone interested in finding the truth.

Those are the things I think about UFOs.

Well, first off welcome to the forum. Its very exciting to have folks from the documentary swing by. I hope you don't mind if I fire a couple more questions your way...

What do you think the Bell was, and where did Kammler go?
What was the deal with Puharich? I don't suppose you know anything about the 'space kids' thing?

a reply to: 1ofthe9

What I think the Bell was/is will be better described by Joseph Farrell. Essentially, though, it was a human-engineered device based on old known principles. Kammler either ended up in the US or South America, is my personal guess.

I don't give much attention to space children and the like because there is so much BS in the mix with the ET subject in general. I tend to refer to the ET hypothesis as the 'ET religion', so that should tell you where I stand on most any question that pops up in UFO circles. It's mostly a sleight-of-hand, the ET/UFO subject -- regardless that I am convinced ETs exist and have or do come here. Basically, if you hear about it on a podcast or radio show, question it deeply. If you experience it personally, you'll be better able to answer the questions for yourself. I include that advice where my research and conclusions are presented, for the record. I gave up desiring to convince people of anything and that was partially motivated out of respect for the skeptical nature of the average reasonable person. Unfortunately, all things UFO have been poisoned for so long that it's difficult to take much of it seriously -- without personal investigation, which tends to immediately disprove a LOT of claims without much effort. However, being an investigator into the weird, I also shy away from assuming another researcher is lying. That poor bastard may also be trying to share something real.

All this stuff is ultimately very personal, if you seek what's real and what's not. The real question you should ask is what YOU think. That's what counts.

originally posted by: WalterBosley
a reply to: 1ofthe9

What I think the Bell was/is will be better described by Joseph Farrell. Essentially, though, it was a human-engineered device based on old known principles. Kammler either ended up in the US or South America, is my personal guess.

I don't give much attention to space children and the like because there is so much BS in the mix with the ET subject in general. I tend to refer to the ET hypothesis as the 'ET religion', so that should tell you where I stand on most any question that pops up in UFO circles. It's mostly a sleight-of-hand, the ET/UFO subject -- regardless that I am convinced ETs exist and have or do come here. Basically, if you hear about it on a podcast or radio show, question it deeply. If you experience it personally, you'll be better able to answer the questions for yourself. I include that advice where my research and conclusions are presented, for the record. I gave up desiring to convince people of anything and that was partially motivated out of respect for the skeptical nature of the average reasonable person. Unfortunately, all things UFO have been poisoned for so long that it's difficult to take much of it seriously -- without personal investigation, which tends to immediately disprove a LOT of claims without much effort. However, being an investigator into the weird, I also shy away from assuming another researcher is lying. That poor bastard may also be trying to share something real.

All this stuff is ultimately very personal, if you seek what's real and what's not. The real question you should ask is what YOU think. That's what counts.

That works. The trick is figuring out how to experience 'it'.

What do you make of Vallee? We've been chewing his stuff for the last while on here, and I'll be damned if some interesting material didn't turn up.

a reply to: 1ofthe9

I have liked the work of Vallee for several years. He was one of the first researcher/authors I read who sees UFOs from a much different perspective than I was used to. This was around the time I found my new perspective (new for me) on the subject and began to lose interest in the subject as such. Mid-late 80s. What Vallee was saying resonated with experiences I'd had but kept to myself for the longest time. I think Vallee long ago figured out that traditional UFO phenomena -- for that matter, our experience of reality -- is, as he has said, a subset of something else. I wish more UFO enthusiasts would read his work, and a few others.

originally posted by: WalterBosley
a reply to: 1ofthe9

I have liked the work of Vallee for several years. He was one of the first researcher/authors I read who sees UFOs from a much different perspective than I was used to. This was around the time I found my new perspective (new for me) on the subject and began to lose interest in the subject as such. Mid-late 80s. What Vallee was saying resonated with experiences I'd had but kept to myself for the longest time. I think Vallee long ago figured out that traditional UFO phenomena -- for that matter, our experience of reality -- is, as he has said, a subset of something else. I wish more UFO enthusiasts would read his work, and a few others.

Yeah. I think, regardless of whatever his ultimate agenda, that hes one of the top writers on the phenomena. Granted, half the fun with this stuff is following the threads and seeing the wacky hijinks government folks get up to.

What was the weirdest stuff you encountered that you can tell us about?

a reply to: 1ofthe9

Most of that was not during standard duty hours. However, what was relates to technology I can't talk about. Might not thrill you anyway.

Having just seen the documentary I must agree that it is by far the most satisfying documentary ever made on the subject. Too often when a documentary comes out on the subject of UFOs a viewer finds him/herself following a standard script of Interview the witness, CGI recreation of sighting, ask the "expert", and then the viewer goes back to square one without having learned a damn thing. I look at Doty and I scratch my head. The man knows his craft, that is for sure. There is nothing but truth and deception behind those empty eyes and it frankly scares me. I've been interested for a few years since my triangle sighting but always thought there was some really goofy &%^t that some people come up with. If only I could be a fly on the wall of the brainstorm that happened in Washington prior to the Howe interview. Doty showed his cards a bit when he proclaimed "we got her back". That was his "tell". OR was it? If you haven't seen it yet I recommend putting it in your netflix queue.

a reply to: georgezip

Yes I must say I really enjoyed this doc.
Doty is a fascinating character and I get the impression his attending of UfO seminars is still just a front and he is still working for the government.
Possibly the best documentary on the subject that I have seen.

a reply to: WalterBosley

Just wondering why they got the spelling of your name wrong in the movie?





Anyway (firstly apologies for not reading every single page of this thread if I am repeating anything discussed earlier). I have finally obtained a DVD copy of "Mirage Men" (although the goodies on the 2nd disc have yet to be viewed). It's certainly a different angle than we are used to seeing from regular UFO documentary makers.

We hear Mark Pilkington declare to Linda Moulton Howe that the premise of his movie is, that the UFO phenomenon is real, but heavily polluted by the likes of Richard Doty (and others who have muddied the waters with their mischief). However at no point does this film venture into exploring what may be considered 'the real UFO cases'. Instead it focuses much of it's attention on the rather ordinary, dare I say humble sounding enigma that is Richard Doty. Meanwhile Howe blinks rapidly through the whole interview, seemingly uncomfortable with his deceit and how their paths crossed in that "fractured hall of mirrors based on quicksand". Greg Bishop also offers an interesting narrative to the Bennewitz back story which underpins the movie and others add a bit more to the palette.

I certainly found it refreshing and offering something that a mainstream TV channel never could. I will probably have to watch it again to fully grasp it all because even though Doty declares around 20% of his disinformation was actually the truth I am not certain what percentage of that statement was even true.

A thoroughly absorbing documentary. But only if you are somewhat familiar with the topics being discussed and are not expecting any sort of real conclusion.

I just watched this documentary on Saturday and thought it would make for a great topic on ATS Live's Into The Fringe show. I searched for a thread relating to the doc and this one popped up first (and 2nd and 3rd and so on). 28 pages is a lot to get through, let me tell ya, however I have gained a LOT of useful insight for my research on this topic.

I will not go into too much detail about my own opinion on the topic except to say that if 80% is disinfo, what is the other 20%?! Then there is the remaining factor of weeding through the 80%. As Mr. Bosely posted earlier:

I don't give much attention to space children and the like because there is so much BS in the mix with the ET subject in general. I tend to refer to the ET hypothesis as the 'ET religion', so that should tell you where I stand on most any question that pops up in UFO circles. It's mostly a sleight-of-hand, the ET/UFO subject -- regardless that I am convinced ETs exist and have or do come here. Basically, if you hear about it on a podcast or radio show, question it deeply. If you experience it personally, you'll be better able to answer the questions for yourself.

REPLY TO DERRUFO...I AM DERRUFO... I wonder if bill moore is also bill cooper, if you look on wikipedia facts area they are both born in 1943...i think it is interesting as it aids in killing off one govt agent in a false story and then he can live out the rest of his life...just throwing it out there.

a reply to: DERRUFO...the aviary was active in the 1990s... it was usually found flying in dejanews com groups such as
groups.google.com...

the younger people will appreciate the mirage men movie better if they read years of g men debunking honest citizens trying to get to and Learn the truth...eventually google inc bought dejanews in order to preserve it as a historical archive...we who used the message boards at dejanews noticed over time a decline in quality and more irrational hoaxers and scammers. slanderers, with no attempt by google inc to stop, or moderate the pristine order dejanews had kept in the boards. Google inc claim it was going to protect dejanews in my mind was a Lie.

Just watched it earlier today. Pretty interesting.
Disinfo on top of disinfo on top of disinfo, not surprising.

a reply to: 1ofthe9...i am not here much but i am reading over this very well constructed conversation with some satisfaction and i ask the internal staff of ATS to send this suggestion along to the people who made the Mirage Men movie... i have made mention recently elsewhere... the documentary the mirage men. it is fascinating , the govt operation was a disinformation program . the special movie is by sincere people out for facts...if nothing else it is entertaining..searching for info online about the people and names is just like reading the modern version of the da vinci code book...i propose the VERY SAME People who made the Mirage Men so wonderful to observe as a movie turn to this idea. Make Mirage Men part 2 by creating a movie that is directly structured exactly like the da vinci code movie...but in this case place different scenarious of some of the same stories....scene one...what code name falcon said happened....next scene same actors...but this time it is what code name agent hawk said actually occurred.do the entire movie like this...using the narration of the actual letters and emails and stories in books...over and over again...if you have 30 scenarios at the end it is still going to be something never seen before...and classically brilliant!! And it will be riveting all the way to the end...i like it...i hope it is made...derrufo, thank you for passing this along to important fellow members of the internal group endeavoring to learn the truth.

a reply to DERRUFO: [/post] there is nothing wrong with doty..in case he is watching, you, Mr DOTY are not to be ashamed or upset by your own work. You , only you know why you had to do what you did...or why you go to conventions or allowed yourself to be interviewed on camera...and you did very well, i think.

a reply to: DERRUFO
I had mixed feelings watching him talk, but as was mentioned in the film, he and others like him may get so wrapped up in all of this that they no longer know what to believe. Or maybe he just doesn't even care anymore? He seems honest in everything he says - except about all those the emails that came from his IP address that he outright denied sending.

the intense students of the PB affair are not saying a word...must have all been abducted or they are all in on making money from strange BS in the 1980s and 90s...