Why is there no real proof of Jesus existing outside of biblical references?

a reply to: dragonridr

Just this fact alone proves his existence since if he didnt Jews and Romans would have easily destroyed the myth since they saw christianity as a threat.

Unfortunately, nothing you have stated in your post is factual. It's all a product of your personal fantasy of what was happening. It's your imagination filling in the blanks in the wholes of a history you aren't even aware of.

originally posted by: Cogito, Ergo Sum

originally posted by: tsingtao

how do you know He didn't exist?

That's a variation of the "unicorn" argument (how do you know they didn't/don't exist?). It's because it is mythology, not history.

how many others existed at that time, that have no references?

Special pleading?

There were mentions of various and reasonably insignificant people called (in anglicised lingo )Jesus.

Though none that were claimed to have walked on water, healed sick and lame, known far and wide, followed by multitudes, had the sanhedrin convene on passover/eve, threw money lenders out of a large and heavily guarded temple (kung fu jesus), an extremely improbable trial by Pilate...and so on. Leaving out the magic, it's extremely unlikely jesus wouldn't have got a mention. Unless of course.....


There is nothing (in a historical sense) to indicate he existed. What is claimed to indicate this, does not and is far more consistent with storytelling/ mythology. Believers seem to at least realise how ridiculous the story is, so they settle for agreement that he must have at least been historical. Even that's unlikely.

nope, you insist He never existed because you claim it mythology and made up stories and if He did, it would be all over the front pages.
i suppose if one starts with mythology, most likely they would end up where you are, on this.
how much is written about the great pyramid being built at the time? gobeki tepi?
yet there they are.

i was not talking about people called jesus, i was talking about the joe blow, down the street from Him.
no mention of that guy either.
there are people today that don't know who the VP is. lol, in this country.

listen to yourself, you don't believe Jesus did those things so He couldn't exist.
who would really want to write they saw miracles but didn';t believe it anyway?

i'm not surprised there are not more writings about Jesus.

who could have guessed how it all turned out?

your last paragraph is so off base, it's funny.

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
Do you think your spirit dies with/when your meat sack is worn out; your heart has beaten its billionth pulse?

I don't know that there is such a thing. I am very skeptical of those who do claim to know.

Either way, I have little say in it. Should it mean non existence, I won't mind at all. I'm not sure it wouldn't be preferable.

Rings true for every other system of faith/dogma that has ever existed; its just following the pattern of an archetype that is proven to work. Horus was the first template for Jesus for instance. You really should not be taking these things so seriously; as most of it is meant to be understood as a 'designed metaphor'. Thanks for explaining, I now have a general idea of your thought process. Don't think I also do not feel cheated in that the Universe will not automatically disclose its intentions to me or for me. That was never its purpose; you have to work at it in order to understand how and why you incarnated (lazybones).

I don't take the claims seriously. I don't think jesus existed at all.

Assuming a purpose at all implies an immense amount of knowledge. I'm skeptical of such claims.

originally posted by: tsingtao

nope, you insist He never existed because you claim it mythology and made up stories and if He did, it would be all over the front pages.
i suppose if one starts with mythology, most likely they would end up where you are, on this.
how much is written about the great pyramid being built at the time? gobeki tepi?
yet there they are.

i was not talking about people called jesus, i was talking about the joe blow, down the street from Him.
no mention of that guy either.
there are people today that don't know who the VP is. lol, in this country.

listen to yourself, you don't believe Jesus did those things so He couldn't exist.
who would really want to write they saw miracles but didn';t believe it anyway?

i'm not surprised there are not more writings about Jesus.

who could have guessed how it all turned out?

If you wish to pursue the genuine academic/historical claims for your mythical hero, it seems you are left with two unpalatable alternatives.

He existed as someone unremarkable and insignificant enough to have been completely overlooked by the entirety of people who should have noticed such a person. Which would make the gospel accounts of this normal unremarkable person, even leaving out the magic (which is what all genuine historians will do anyway)...extremely unreliable and useless for such a purpose by way of being wildly fictitious stories (not to mention contradictory even though largely copied off each other lol) Where does fact stop and myth begin..?

There are no end of mythical heroes who we could also consider just as real historically this way.

Or the more consistent conclusion that no one noticed because whole thing was made up.

your last paragraph is so off base, it's funny.

Yet I'm not hearing the laughter...

www.youtube.com...

originally posted by: TURBOTRON5000
www.youtube.com...

That's a good one!

Here it is embedded!

originally posted by: Cogito, Ergo Sumoriginally posted by: veteranhumanbeing

[I]VHB[/I] Do you think your spirit dies with/when your meat sack is worn out; your heart has beaten its billionth pulse?

[I]CES[/I] don't know that there is such a thing. I am very skeptical of those who do claim to know. Either way, I have little say in it. Should it mean non existence, I won't mind at all. I'm not sure it wouldn't be preferable.

I don't know or make any claims. You are stuck on a fence wondering what side of that fence to climb down east or west/north or south. You are sitting at the fulcrum (pivot point) of a teeder todder. Non existence is not part of the equation; you are alive and existing. Your preference as to being a living soul you decided before you incarnated. What exactly is your problem? Disappointment in that you were not given the rule books/the primer to "how to be a human incarnate" or is it you in fact are too lazy to figure this all out on your own (there are some of us that have put some effort into this). Lazybones.

originally posted by: vethumanbeing


I don't know or make any claims.

Your preference as to being a living soul you decided before you incarnated.

See any contradiction?

You are stuck on a fence wondering what side of that fence to climb down east or west/north or south.

There was no jesus, all religious gods amount to nonsensical and delusional fantasy. That doesn't appear to be "fence sitting" IMO.

Non existence is not part of the equation; you are alive and existing. What exactly is your problem? Disappointment in that you were not given the rule books/the primer to "how to be a human incarnate" or is it you in fact are too lazy to figure this all out on your own (there are some of us that have put some effort into this). Lazybones.

You seem to be doing a bit of "projecting" in amongst those assumptions. Perhaps your efforts have failed and like most "wise ones/gurus" you have settled for the easy option?

Goes back to when the church decided what and what not to put in the bible like how jesus killed his best friend by shovong him off his families roof top when jesus was tena reply to: Scope and a Beam

a reply to: Cogito, Ergo Sum

I guess you don't understand the ultimate parable (it wasn't written just alluded to). The whole 'JESUS" idea (REAL OR NOT is of no matter). It was/is just an overlay metaphor for yourself as a direction or possible life path to follow in goodness and lovingness of your fellow man. THAT IS ALL IT WAS in INTENTION. Not meant to become the 'New Testament" taken seriously (that was unexpected but thanks to Paul created it) and now have POOF Christianity.

www.youtube.com...

Forget about religion, it's nothing more then a carnal curtain which distracts you from the spiritual truth.

And forget about the concept of Jesus Christ the Son of God as a man that roamed the earth beginning 2015 years ago. It's not about a man, it's about a Spirit.

And forget about whether or not the bible has been altered to meet someone's agenda and forget about which translated version is the best version because there is too much to alter in order to make a negative impact. The versions we have include enough information to spark your thinking, but you need to actually read it.

And forget about numerology and events and stories which attempt to overlay historical and upcoming events because the Spirit of God is present tense, always. The stories and numbers and generations and events apply to you...today, right now in the very moment of your human experience.

But learn about this because this is the message:

God is love. Love is invisible.
I can't see love but I can see the expression of love in people.
And the expression of love is the Son of God.

originally posted by: LetsMotivate
Forget about religion, it's nothing more then a carnal curtain which distracts you from the spiritual truth.
But learn about this because this is the message:

God is love. Love is invisible.
I can't see love but I can see the expression of love in people.
And the expression of love is the Son of God.

Love is a force just as strong/weak force or magnetism/gravity is (undefined or measurable as yet).

Love is a force just as strong/weak force or magnetism/gravity is (undefined or measurable as yet).

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Yes...there are lots of different types of forces and you raise an interesting point. I would edit your example to note that Love is personified. Additionally, it's good to know which are forces are eternal and which are not. There are many Gods but only one is True. Be like the True God because all the rest are nothing more then burnt offerings in the end.

originally posted by: LetsMotivate

Love is a force just as strong/weak force or magnetism/gravity is (undefined or measurable as yet).

a reply to: veteranhumanbeing

Yes...there are lots of different types of forces and you raise an interesting point. I would edit your example to note that Love is personified. Additionally, it's good to know which are forces are eternal and which are not. There are many Gods but only one is True. Be like the True God because all the rest are nothing more then burnt offerings in the end.

Edit away. Love not only personified but individualized to the person (unique). I suppose that is why 3 people in a 'prayer circle' (for example) triple the force of the thought as opposed to just one. The forces eternal are the ones that support a positive outcome. This universe is functioning through self growth ultimately. Chaos is the change factor (negative component added) but will never win out; destroy the construct? ITS NOT ALLOWED (to cause mischief and occational mayhem yes). There is only one Absolute Unbounded Oneness.

originally posted by: LetsMotivate

Love is a force just as strong/weak force or magnetism/gravity is (undefined or measurable as yet).

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Yes...there are lots of different types of forces and you raise an interesting point. I would edit your example to note that Love is personified. Additionally, it's good to know which are forces are eternal and which are not. There are many Gods but only one is True. Be like the True God because all the rest are nothing more then burnt offerings in the end.

Not that kind of symmetry in physics susy aka Supersymmetry had to deal with forces and charges . Theory goes for every force or interaction there is a counter balance if you will bringing everything into balance . For right now no super partners have been discovered meaning we have no proof this even occurs other than math equations.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Chaos has nothing to do with the universe what does is one simple fact. It takes energy to put things in order. LIke dropping marbles they move to a lower energy state and hit the floor. To put them back into an organized state requires energy in this case you picking them up and placing them in a bag.

As time moves forward things move from higher energy states to lower ones that is what you refer to as chaos. In actuality nothing more than time effecting everything you see.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: vethumanbeing

Chaos has nothing to do with the universe what does is one simple fact. It takes energy to put things in order. LIke dropping marbles they move to a lower energy state and hit the floor. To put them back into an organized state requires energy in this case you picking them up and placing them in a bag.

As time moves forward things move from higher energy states to lower ones that is what you refer to as chaos. In actuality nothing more than time effecting everything you see.

What is the push-pull force that some call chaos that forces change (there is always an imbalance). Stasis does not result in change; as is a stagnant system. It is obvious higher energy states are influencing matter on this planet (those cannot cope with).

...Theory goes for every force or interaction there is a counter balance if you will bringing everything into balance . For right now no super partners have been discovered meaning we have no proof this even occurs other than math equations

Hey there. This sounds like a balancing of powers in order to keep things on a level playing field more than anything having to do with symmetry. Maybe I'm not understanding your idea's, please clarify if I'm not because I'm interested in understanding you.

There's no doubt that there is a pattern which can identify two forces and the rate of work required by each to try and maintain balance...strong/weak, magnetism/gravity...or personified forces such as love/hate, patience/impatience. However the symmetry doesn't occur between the two but rather within each. A replication process...strong produces strong, patience produces patience, an incorrect premise produces an incorrect response. etc. Bring this to level which matters and we're talking about putting balance in our own lives...for example, patience. Now whether you choose patience or impatience is up to you as an individual...but don't be both if you're seeking balance. Pick one or the other. One is eternal (meaning it's true...always has been always will be and can be relied upon every time without fail). The other is false (meaning it is not a standard by which anything can be measured or relied upon).

Say it another way...If at your core you are a kind person then this is replicated by what you do and say...you show kindness. This is symmetry. And again, if at your core you are a kind person but are unkind in your outward expression, then this is asymmetrical. We don't even need mathematics to prove that. We don't need to claim a religious tag to be that. It just is what it is by choice and your choice is evident in who you are. That's good balance.

originally posted by: Cogito, Ergo Sum

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

I don't know or make any claims.

Your preference as to being a living soul you decided before you incarnated.

See any contradiction?

You are stuck on a fence wondering what side of that fence to climb down east or west/north or south.

There was no jesus, all religious gods amount to nonsensical and delusional fantasy. That doesn't appear to be "fence sitting" IMO.

Non existence is not part of the equation; you are alive and existing. What exactly is your problem? Disappointment in that you were not given the rule books/the primer to "how to be a human incarnate" or is it you in fact are too lazy to figure this all out on your own (there are some of us that have put some effort into this). Lazybones.

You seem to be doing a bit of "projecting" in amongst those assumptions. Perhaps your efforts have failed and like most "wise ones/gurus" you have settled for the easy option?

No respectable guru would admit to being one (as it must then think it has an actual audience/listener base). I see all sorts of contradictions to incarnating without knowledge of ones higher self; its experiences. This 3D world is a game board (not reality). Failed efforts; not sure what you are alluding to. There is no easy option. Damned if you do and damned if you don't (tell the truth).