Your hostility and cynicism is not going to get you anywhere

Holster your guns and sheathe your swords for a moment; this isn't meant as an attack but an honest assessment of the state of the American Left.

The election is over and in my own analysis the number one reason people elected Bush again is because the majority of Americans rejected the tactics of the left throughout the campaign.

And two weeks afterwards it's clear that the left has not learned this lesson, because the rhetoric and the vitriol has increased exponentially.

Let's get some facts straight. regardless of what you may think of him, the majority of Americans do not think Bush is a

• Liar
• Nazi
• War criminal
• Warmonger
• Murderer
• Idiot
• All of the above

They didn't buy the war for oil argument in '91 and they don't buy it now. And not only do most Americans not think this way, they are repulsed by these kinds of attacks.

The real problem with the Right in this country is the Left is no longer a viable alternative in the war of ideas. The Left didn't have any ideas in this campaign; just a littany of complaints and attacks. As red-blooded conservative I am, no country can survive with only one party, one way of thinking. Competition breeds innovation, dominance breeds apathy and mediocrity. We on the right need level-headed people on the left to keep us honest.

And regardless of what you've been fooled into thinking, it is possible to support the Iraq war on principle and not be a warmonger. It is possible to have principled disagreements with homosexuality and not be a bigot. It is possible to not be a Christian fundamentalist and still have principled disagreements with abortion. These are all topics for another forum, but keep in mind when people like you and Linda Rondstadt and Michael Moore and Moveon.org compare George Bush to Hitler, the vast majority of people in this country want to spit on you. Hitler systematically and brutally attempted to wipe out an entire race of people. When you say Bush lied to get us into war with Iraq, most people laugh at you. If Bush lied he had to be the only person in the world that knew Iraq was disarmed. And even then Iraq had not disarmed. Again, another topic. And when you dismiss people like me--and believe me, there are few pro-war conservatives as informed on the Iraq war as me, I guarantee you--as stupid, bigotted hicks, I am sorry to say the Right wing in this country will continue to tighten its grip on this country's policies for decades; maybe even past the next century.



If this worries you as much as you say, stop the rhetoric and engage in the war of ideas. If attacks and vitriol are all you're good for, you're going to be miserable the rest of your lives cuz the Right will dominate. When conservatives were in the #ter during the 60's and 70's, they didn't mope around and talk about seccession and migrating to other countries. They fought the war of ideas with ideas of their own, and today most Americans agree with them. The only way to beat them is to do the same.

It's true the Left sucks.

According to the election only half of America feels the way you do, not "most".

I'm for both sides shutting up actually. Who cares if we have war for oil or war to disarm up and coming nuclear countries (or both)? If you don't agree with it then it's not your fault. If you do agree with it then watch with interest.

Let's all just meet in the center for a nice big heterosexual hug.

Actually it's 53%, and most of the 47% that voted for Kerry didn't really vote "for" Kerry. They voted against Bush.

Big difference. I'm the first to admit if the Dems nominated a candidate worth anything Bush would've been toast.

Most "people" is probably the wrong way to put it. But it's clear that conservative ideas have a comfortable advantage right now.
Bush won I believe 33 states out of 50.

The GOP dominates the House of Representatives and has an 11-seat advantage in the Senate.

The reason that the Vote came out that way , was Kerry was not viable, being the other than Honorable Discharge, Massive Liberal, and a FlipFlopper big time.

But another and more important reason, is that Americans are not stupid, they know what is at stake. 911 was a wake up call that ignoring the problem of Islamic Fundementalism would not make it go away and people knew Bush would fight not capitulate.

IMHO.

Dismissing your adversaries as stupid is certainly not a winning strategy.

The Left seems to be falling over themselves trying to tell us how stupid we are.

What's REALLY stupid is thinking that calling the other side stupid is going to change anyone's minds.

I'll go toe to toe with anyone on the Iraq war and present a case for war that is not as compelling as was stated pre-war but far more compelling than the left is making it out to be post-war.

I'd like to speak plainly on this matter, let's move on. It's over, Jesusland won. I'm so happy you are shoving this fact down everyone's throat.

So get of your high horses and stop beating the liberals to death.

America needs a reset button, but to many bi-laws and other such nonsense prohibit it.

At the center of an any man made system, there where always be corruption, and always someone with an agenda, who merely speaks the words, but holds his own machinations and planning quiet.

That's all,

-ADHDsux4me, New Member of the Personal Choice Party

I'm not rubbing it in. I'm trying to get at least some of you to get past this hatred of the other side because Americans will reject hatred utterly and the two-party system will become one party and that will get us nowhere.

I agree, we do need to move on but so long as the left continues to demonize the Right and the people who voted for Bush that's not gonna happen.

Originally posted by Ibn Iblis
I'm not rubbing it in. I'm trying to get at least some of you to get past this hatred of the other side because Americans will reject hatred utterly and the two-party system will become one party and that will get us nowhere.

I agree, we do need to move on but so long as the left continues to demonize the Right and the people who voted for Bush that's not gonna happen.

It will never happen. There will always be someone on the right or left that hate the other side and have nothing better to do than stink the place up with their opinions. The media outlets are adding fuel to the fire on both sides. I myself, being anti-war, could come up with a good reason to be in Iraq. But soon, I fear, the pans that have been left unattended at home will boil over. Screw Iraq. What about the economy? What about getting our jobs back? What about stopping the millions of illegal immigrants from taking the only jobs we have plenty of? What about Social Security reform? What about looking into sustainable energy options? Are these just not things the Right sees as important? It would seem they don't if you look at the current administration.

[edit on 11-19-2004 by ShadowHasNoSource]

Brainwashed lemmings. Pick a side, any side.

Sort like how the soviets only have two candidates from whom to choose. Look at the job the Dems did on Nader. It's almost as if they were more afraid of Nader gaining legitimacy than having Bush reelected to maintain the status quo.

Props. Whatever it is that ones calls themselves. It's all staged for your consuption. To give you the illusion that you have a choice.

Ibn, you must have 3 threads going at the same time stating how badly the left sucks.
Jeeees, its annoying, but it isnt going to change anyones' mind. Are you not secure with your political affiliation? You have doubts and loss of sleep at night that Bush won and therefore we're done for? Worries about the draft Bush is going to start?
Be happy your man was elected and move on with your life.
Do you want liberals to jump in front of a speeding train?
No body is going to apologyze for having said detremental things about Bush. It is as it is. We have our very valid beliefs and we stick with them since they are the truth- I like the truth...its been so long since we heard any truths, you know?

We post against &
you post for...

Life is great

I like your avatar.

Your posts are a different story.

But your avatar is hot.

Keep demonizing bush and the Right. You're not doing anybody any good. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying the left sucks. I think your ideas are ludicrous, when you actually talk about ideas, but as an America-first kind of guy I want the left to compete in the war of ideas because if the Right gains a monopoly on power because the left acts like a bunch of idiots, the right will become lazy and (more) corrupt and apathetic.

Politicians understand one thing: power. You can say it's money, but you need the power first before you can get the money, and they'll NEVER listen to us or fight for us if they don't fear us.

If the Right does not fear loss of power because the left pisses the whole country off by its tactics, we will all be screwed.

I don't see how this is being viewed in a hostile manner. Everyone take a deep breath.

I wanna know how soon after Senator Kerry gave his concession speech was Senator Hillary Clinton readying her 2008 Presidential election staff?

I agree that we need a balanced discussion on issues and a viable 2 + party system in order to be the best country posssible. If you read my postings, you know I'm a right-winger. That does not mean I disregard every left einged argument. Just last night I spent almost an hour reading through the Alex Jones website 9-11 conspiracy threads. It's only by full education of the issues that America will chart the correct path.

You can say it's money, but you need the power first before you can get the money

That's NOT what Tony Montagna said..."first you get the power, then you get the women". Are you disrespecting Tony??

Thanks for the compliment

I have a good mind as well but i do not agree with you.

This doesnt make me a bad person

Originally posted by OpenMinded
I wanna know how soon after Senator Kerry gave his concession speech was Senator Hillary Clinton readying her 2008 Presidential election staff?
............

Do you really think she was waiting until after I�m pretty sure she was happier than any republican with the outcome.

I love the new angle this is all getting.

Demonize the Left for Demonizing the Right. Hmm, this screams of generalizations and blanket statements.

I hate to tell you, but if you don't think the venom spews from the Right as much (if not more until 2004) then you are not looking at the world in a serious light.

As a serious non-liberal and former Republican, I am a conservative that knows that the right officially sucks.

Sure, maybe it's a good idea to sack Iraq, and maybe the principle is sound, but unfortunately they don't quite look at things from our perspective.

Some may love us, and our "democracy" might "bring a light of freedom" to their world. But the harsh reality of the world is that in the world of terror, we are painting a big fat target on our back promising more violence and more military action.

We have already extended our influence far and wide with our culture (which many hate us for alone) and certainly monetarily.

Add the military to that, and you've got problems no matter how noble the cause. There will always be some place worse to take care of.

We certainly have been neglecting the "homeland" though. If we cared so much about it, you'd think they'd have better solutions to the internal problems rather than putting a band-aid over huge wounds.

Our industry market is acidic. Small business is the same way. People have a hard time paying for things because they tax us to hell and back.

We all know what socialism will do when applied over a capitalist frame. It would make a bad situation worse.

This short range thinking that's been going around in the Big Two really gets aggravating, mainly because the people don't even know what the federal government is, does, or is supposed to be doing.

The Senate is not supposed to be voted in by a popular vote, but you'd be hard pressed to find people (yes, even conservatives) that would even know that, let alone have formulated an opinion about it.

We have moved to a superficial selection process. It's simply maddening. No one seems to give a damn about fixing the problems, but rather only to beat the other side.

I guess now it's become fashionable to snoot around about it after we have won nothing of merit.

Honestly, when the corporations have more sway over the federal government than the people in practical decisions, then we have a serious problem.

But, YEAH, WE WON!!!!!!!!!

Being one of the few conservatives not to say "Well I don't agree with everything Bush does, but what about the War on Terror" followed by some Clinton garbage, or Kerry rhetoric.

That is simply all it is. Rhetoric. I�d hope that we all know how useless both of these two "candidates" really are.

But what's the solution?

I'd recommend the Republicans get their heads out of their....

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
We all know what socialism will do when applied over a capitalist frame. It would make a bad situation worse.

yes, in fact it would. This is why reformist socialism is inpractical and downright dangerous. The only solution is revolution. The complete destruction of the capitalist mode of production, and the rejection of the fetishism of commodities.

Originally posted by dgtempe
Thanks for the compliment

I have a good mind as well but i do not agree with you.

This doesnt make me a bad person

The weakness in this defence of the US election result is that it is based on a position that "one side" hates the "other side" and vice versa, which is not relevant to the performance of the incumbent administration or stopping the country going down the toilet at all.

It's not a bipartisan issue.

I would have to say the reason I am so frustrated by the "Right" is that they seem to have been hijacked by evangelicals. Now don't get me wrong, I have no beef with the evangelical right's moral and value stances, what they want to believe is up to them, but to force legislation down our throats based on biblical interpretations is scary to say the least. The administrations Abstinance Education policy argues that touching another persons genitals can cause pregnancy, that women get satisfaction from relationships and men obtain satisfaction from acheivements, that 50% of homosexual teenage males are HIV carriers... and the list goes on. This seems to me an attempt to "recreate" an imagined 1950s mindset. The fact that the president listens more to the books of Tim LeHay than to scientists is horrifying. I thought we were fighting Islamic Fundamentalism? It looks like we are creating a Christian one.