Dollar Melts and Bush takes no action

A friend of mine whose in the money game sez he sees a crash coming in the not-so-distant future. I have every reason to trust his judgement. All one has to do is look at the situation re: OPEC possibly going with the Euro. If that was to happen, it'd be lights out for us. All the checks we're bouncing all over would come due at once and there'd be nothing to cover it. This nation is already bankrupt. It's only a matter of time till the crash comes. Invest in gold now, if you can. And stock up on all manner of supplies.

So who do we owe the money to?
The Federal Reserve?

If so, what if they call our debt in?

If it's fiat currency we don't actually owe anything right?
We could just print up a bunch of paper and call it 8.18 trillion dollars.

[edit on 11-19-2004 by ShadowHasNoSource]

Originally posted by ShadowHasNoSource
So who do we owe the money to?


[edit on 11-19-2004 by ShadowHasNoSource]

I think alot of the debt is owed to other countries like Japan etc....

What are they going to do send a collector to break the US's thumbs if we dont pay

Alot of countries owe the US money though too we lend alot of money to countries at some pretty high interest rates. Most of the poor contries in the world owe the world's wealthiest nations, such as the US, Britain, Japan, France, and Germany money.

Originally posted by ShadowHasNoSource
So who do we owe the money to?
The Federal Reserve?

If so, what if they call our debt in?

If it's fiat currency we don't actually owe anything right?
We could just print up a bunch of paper and call it 8.18 trillion dollars.

i will be glad to tender the cpn for 32 trillion, they, the feredal reserve can use fiat money, why can't we?





ModEdit - Inserted forgotten end quote tag.

[edit on 11-19-2004 by ProudAmerican]

Originally posted by razorbackhater
i will be glad to tender the cpn for 32 trillion, they, the feredal reserve can use fiat money, why can't we?

That's what I'm saying. I have a printer. Anyone have 8.18 trillion pieces of paper?

What exactly happened to all our gold and silver anyway? Yo, I'm pissed!













[edit on 11-19-2004 by ProudAmerican]

Originally posted by razorbackhater


That's what I'm saying. I have a printer. Anyone have 8.18 trillion pieces of paper?

What exactly happened to all our gold and silver anyway? Yo, I'm pissed!

Print something bigger than a $1.00 bill









[edit on 11-19-2004 by ProudAmerican]

The US still has alot of gold it just does not back our money anymore. We stillhave Fort Knox.The Federal Reserve Bank of New York is the world's largest gold repository 9,000 tons of gold more then even Fort Knox, though most of it does not belong to the US BUT 49 different countries and a number of international organizations and account holders.

This is serious. It would not be a bad ideia here to remember why Russia no longer exsists in its former state. They spent so much money on arming for and fighting wars that they just ran there economy into the ground . I realizse that things in Russia have never been this simple but I see us following in there path if we keep up this debt thing. Building more bombs may not help our economy this time . Why ? Becaue of the EU . This could be our swan song .

Originally posted by valkeryie

Originally posted by razorbackhater


That's what I'm saying. I have a printer. Anyone have 8.18 trillion pieces of paper?

What exactly happened to all our gold and silver anyway? Yo, I'm pissed!

Print something bigger than a $1.00 bill

Eureka! Can someone please call the non-Federal non-Reserve and see if they'll take a 8.18 trillion dollar bill?

Seriously though, our money is backed by the labor of the American population (including illegal immigrants). I have my share to pay off these animated corpses we call bankers. Think I'll give them back some of their monopoly money and stop paying for their infernal revenue service. Which I might add is not much of a service. It's more like, I don't know, an enema.

About the 32 trillion, I'm too lazy to look into that further so I just go with the upcoming debt limit. After 6 trillion "bucks" I kinda got bored with the whole debt thing. I was just hoping to roll a 6 so I could get park place.

About the gold and silver, I've never been to fort knox and that picture in the American History book back in 90s is pretty old. I wouldn't be surprised if our gold was helping an advanced interplanitary alien tribe build advanced interplanitary alien tribe things.

Here's a novel idea. How 'bouts us'n gubmit act like a bizniz instead of a spoiled brat? I'm tired of flipping the bill for a bunch of disease-stricken, pharmaceutical-zombie, monotone, lifeless, humorless, heartless, loveless, lackies of lust for power.

Oops, did I say that? I swear it was the Montauk antenna array that beamed that into my head. Like that phone number 867-5309. Make it stop please! It's been over two decades!!

This not being blown out of proportion. This has been swept under the rug for years, under reported. China and Japan own this country. And China is rapidly becoming the economic engine of the world. America has been sold out from under Americans by Americans of Global Power.
Watch for the U.N. to gain power, watch for Clinton to take Kofi's place. Watch China to have more influence in the U.N. Don't worry be happy You are about to witness some of the most dynamic changes ever to occur on this planet. Talk about Orwellian

Ploar Bear

Greenspan critical of trade deficits
If the dollar continues to slide, foreign investors may dump U.S. stocks and bonds, the Fed chairman says.

Associated Press

WASHINGTON - Swollen trade deficits eventually could threaten the economy by souring foreign appetites to invest in the United States, Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan warned Friday.

The dollar, already sliding, took another nose dive after his remarks.

Greenspan's comments to a banking conference in Frankfurt, Germany, referred to the broadest measure of U.S. trade, the current account deficit. That swelled to a record $166.2 billion in the second quarter of this year, the most recent figure available.

This deficit is considered the best measure of a country's international economic standing because it tracks not only goods and services but investment flows between countries. For 2003, the current account deficit mushroomed to an all-time high of more than $500 billion.
www.heraldnet.com...

On second thought you guy's are right. It is overblown


Polar Bear

I found some good websites on this issue, take a look.

CBS Marketwatch

WASHINGTON (CBS.MW) - In a sweeping indictment of President George Bush's economy policy, former members of President Bill Clinton's economy team said the structural deficits created by the Bush tax cuts have put long-term U.S. economic stability at risk even if growth picks up.

The Bush White House "has been the most fiscally irresponsible administration in history," said Gene Sperling, former director of the Clinton National Economic Council....

www.gold-eagle.com...

www.washingtonpost.com...

www.investorshub.com...

Deep


**Edited in Url Tag

[edit on 20-11-2004 by TrickmastertricK]

This whole global economic thing is not my cup of tea. I'm not as bad as "I can't be overdrawn - I stll have some checks left", but I need some help.

Can someone point me to the Cliffs Notes version of buying/selling currencies, what makes a currency weak or stong, and whatever else I can use to follow this topic. I'd appreciate something that can help me understand this mess we're in.

I really don't want any partisan websites, but historical data is welcome.

Thanks
john

Originally posted by jsobecky
TCan someone point me to the Cliffs Notes version of buying/selling currencies, what makes a currency weak or stong, and whatever else I can use to follow this topic. I'd appreciate something that can help me understand this mess we're in.

Thanks
john

Here is an excelllent article that should make it a little clearer than mud


George Bush hasn't much discussed what could be his biggest economic
problem. It's not budget deficits or jobs. It's the possible crash of the
dollar on foreign exchange markets. Even if Bush understood it, he would be
hard-pressed to explain it to the public. Worse, there are no obvious ways
to prevent it. Nor is it certain how big the threat is. Little wonder Bush
hasn't said much. If John Kerry had won, the situation would have been the
same. But a dollar crash, if it occurred, could trigger a terrifying global
slump. etc.......

lot of info in the middle to clarify what could and is happening



There's a stubborn contradiction. The world may be getting more dollars than
it wants, but it likes the source of those dollars: large U.S. trade
deficits. China has resisted U.S. pressure to raise the value of its
currency; Europeans and Japanese deplore the recent increases in their
currencies. Because the dollar's vulnerability reflects other countries'
weaknesses, no American president can cure it alone. Contrary to popular
wisdom, for example, U.S. budget deficits don't cause U.S. trade deficits.
In the late 1990s, trade deficits widened even though budget deficits
declined.
No one knows what will happen. The massive U.S. payments deficits could
continue for years, with foreigners investing surplus dollars in American
stocks and bonds. Gradual shifts in currency values might reduce the world's
addiction to exporting to the United States. Or something might cause a
dollar crash tomorrow. In that case, massive intervention by government
central banks (buying unwanted dollars) might avert a calamity. Or it might
not. We're in uncharted waters. If we hit a shoal, it will be bad for
everyone.

www.mail-archive.com...@listserv.aol.com/msg117120.html

In short we are in a critical position and without allies other than third world countries. And I do not think Condi is there to make friends.

Polar Bear

I guess that 8 dollar a week tax brake is going to start feeling like -100 dollars out of our pocket with the increased in rates and lack of services that are coming with the increased in deficit start hitting us we will have to pay more for what we need like health care.

Occurs only the middle class working americans are going to feel it , the same people that suppousely the tax brake is helping

Pity.

Hey...I think the world will fall soon enough and all that monetary problems are planned....I just think they prepare us for something really really big and the world's economy will all fall apart to make us scared

www.abovetopsecret.com...

This might be the answer

Ameliaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

This is an extremely complex topic that most people have very great difficulty understanding. Go back and read each of the splendid posts by MrNice, he really has a deep understanding what is going on, and explains things extremely well.

I will try and put it much more simply.

By agreement the US dollar was made the world currency shortly after the second world war. All world trade was carried out using US dollars as the medium of exchange, and this was true up until very recently.

Every country had to earn export dollars in order to pay for it's imports, but all payments were made using US dollars. The countries own currency was either allowed to float, or was tied to the US dollar.

This put the US in the wonderful position of being able to print its own US dollars, whereas other countries had to earn theirs by buying them with exports. It was like the US had a printing press in the basement. Everyone else in the street has a job, but the US has a printing press.

There is far more to it than that, but that is just the basic idea.

Other countries were quite willing to do this because the US dollar was backed by gold. Your green dollars could be exchanged for gold at any US bank, so everyone was happy, and it worked well.

The first problem arose during the Vietnam war. Nixon was printing far too many green dollars to pay for the war than there was gold to back them. Too many people asked for the gold in exchange, and the trick was soon exposed as America then looked like running out of gold.

Nixon then took the US dollar off the gold standard in 1971, and the US dollar has been backed by absolutely nothing ever since.

The US continued to print vast amounts of new dollars, and this made America even more prosperous, as it bought up cheap imports, especially cheap oil. The living standard in America rose very quickly with cheap oil. All these imports were paid for with worthless paper. The Euro emerged shortly after this as a competitive world currency, but it never really caught on at the start.

The whole world became awash with excess US dollars, and many of them went into the stock market boom that continued up to about 2000. Vast amounts of money bid up the stock market technology boom. Americans became still more prosperous.

A lot was going on behind the scenes in secret. The gold price was artificially kept low, to hide inflation, and OPEC countries were threatened and coerced to continue to accept US dollars for their oil.

Then, Saddam was the one to stand up to America and DEMAND to be paid in Euros for his oil. He went to the UN and successfully had the food for oil deal changed so he could be paid in Euros. The US was absolutely furious because it set a dangerous precedent. Bush spread this rubbish about WMD and the war on terror, and invaded Iraq as a lesson to other OPEC countries.

All of Europe were quite happy to see the Euro be accepted for oil, it set a new precedent. So Europe stayed out of the Iraq war. Iran also threatened to accept Euros for its oil, but later backed down. The way it is now, other countries like Russia are now accepting Euros, and it is spreading.

America can no longer use the threat of military force, to compel the rest of the world to accept its unbacked worthless US dollars. The US dollar is now slipping fast. There is nothing Bush can do about it now.

The problem is that the US has lived for far too long on free money. While the rest of the world has to work and be competitive.

To catch up to the rest of the world, the US living standard is going to have to drop a very long way indeed. Most Americans just cannot understand why such a prosperous country can suddenly go totally broke.

Unfortunately the future for the US dollar now looks very grim indeed. The big bluff no longer works.

[edit on 20-11-2004 by Warpspeed]

Thanx Warpspeed, you translated much better than I.

Finally,... correlated facts to the currency.

I have brought this up myself related to Iraq before here at ATS,... and it is very clear to me.


Something to read historically,.. see if you can find some correlations here to the present...

How the City of London created the Great Depression

a long read,... but worth it.

Originally posted by Warpspeed

America can no longer use the threat of military force, to compel the rest of the world to accept its unbacked worthless US dollars.

[edit on 20-11-2004 by Warpspeed]

Now they can used unbacked worthless Euros instead, No major world currency can ever be backed by gold anymore there is just not enough gold in the world for that.

If all the gold in the world was formed into a single block it wouldnt even fill up a standard sized tennis court.

Also the the United States abandoned the gold standard in 1933 for United States Notes long before Nixon.

[edit on 20-11-2004 by ShadowXIX]

[edit on 20-11-2004 by ShadowXIX]