The true story that most don't hear written by LCPL Schmidt USMC

Originally posted by taibunsuu
To everyone saying this, imagine if you saw a video of an Iraqi walk up to a US servicemember groaning in pain asking for a doctor and he gets shot in the head. Before you reply, ask how you would react to such an image.

Well that would be a bad thing but the Americans have not been tricking the insurgents in close so they can kill them when they try to act as one should in this case.

You should be ashamed in even comparing the two.......

Fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice...more Americans die.

Is that what you want?

Originally posted by edsinger

Originally posted by taibunsuu
To everyone saying this, imagine if you saw a video of an Iraqi walk up to a US servicemember groaning in pain asking for a doctor and he gets shot in the head. Before you reply, ask how you would react to such an image.

Well that would be a bad thing but the Americans have not been tricking the insurgents in close so they can kill them when they try to act as one should in this case.

Anything followed by a 'but' is a lie, Ed.

Reverse the roles, put an Arab fighter in the spot of the Marine and the Marine in the spot of the Iraqi. How would you feel if that Marine was asking for help, and the Arab shoots him twice in the head?

Originally posted by taibunsuu

Anything followed by a 'but' is a lie, Ed.

Reverse the roles, put an Arab fighter in the spot of the Marine and the Marine in the spot of the Iraqi. How would you feel if that Marine was asking for help, and the Arab shoots him twice in the head?

So you now KNOW that the 'insurgent' was asking for help? Man you have good sources.

Look I am nit saying that if he killed the man for #s and giggles that it is ok. What I am saying is that the operating methods of these guys was to moan and get the troops in near and then pull the pin. YOu just dont get it do you?


Reminds me of a story I heard from a man who was on one of the WWII Island hops, he used a flame thrower..............


He told me what he did and why........same situation...........


Did you see BOTH hands up in the air? Like that would matter.


If he is found gulity then you will have your way, damn good judging without all the facts though...maybe you need to be a judge.

...then several members of ATS will be judged by a God sitting thousands of miles away, who has never met them and has no idea of who they really are.

Instead, God will judge them based on news shorts, sound bites, rumors, Internet postings, innuendo and lies.

God will speak only to people who hate those being judged, and not allow the defendants to speak or defend themselves.

For some people, it is only possible to understand how evil such a thing is when they are the victims.

If you are such a person, I curse you thus: May you be judged as you judge others.

Originally posted by rrobert5425
As a matter of fact, women are hiding bombs under their babies and then blowing up themselves when coalition forces are nearby...
...It's sick to think that the media has this much power to pervert the truth. The media needs to put out the whole story or shut up.

Selectively quoted, yes.

But have you ever stopped to ask why women are doing this? Have you looked into the history of Iraq? Do you know how many civilians died in '91? How many died at the hands of UN sanctions enforced by the US?
And they were gonna welcome you with open arms!?! Who dreamed up that fantasy?

Hey, you've allowed the media to become what it is. 30 second soundbites rule politics, why shouldn't they rule war?

TV, where soundbite politics means straight teeth in you mouth are more important than the words that come out of it...TV is the reason most Americans think Central America means Kansas - just ask The Disposable Heroes of Hip-hoprisy!

There's nothing new in this. What are the two most famous images from VN? What was the story behind the chief of police executing a VC on the street?

Originally posted by edsinger

Originally posted by taibunsuu

Anything followed by a 'but' is a lie, Ed.

Reverse the roles, put an Arab fighter in the spot of the Marine and the Marine in the spot of the Iraqi. How would you feel if that Marine was asking for help, and the Arab shoots him twice in the head?

So you now KNOW that the 'insurgent' was asking for help? Man you have good sources.

Look I am nit saying that if he killed the man for #s and giggles that it is ok. What I am saying is that the operating methods of these guys was to moan and get the troops in near and then pull the pin. YOu just dont get it do you?


Reminds me of a story I heard from a man who was on one of the WWII Island hops, he used a flame thrower..............


He told me what he did and why........same situation...........


Did you see BOTH hands up in the air? Like that would matter.


If he is found gulity then you will have your way, damn good judging without all the facts though...maybe you need to be a judge.

Odd. You still can't answer the question. While you're working on it, answer this multiple choice question:

During mop-up operations, if you suspect a surrendering enemy to be boobytrapped, you:

A: Move back to safety and seek direction from your superior.
B: Shoot him twice in the head.

taibunsuu;

Alot of the time I agree with you. If I remember the video there were shots in the background. Whether or not it was in the street or in the mosque is unclear. If it was in the street you would first find cover and concealment, i.e (building). Moving into a confined place (building) the first thing you do is to clear it (remove threat)

1. You do not always have the time to ask for clarification so you have to use initiative. 2. Regardless; the double tap secured the building and removed the threat.

^^^You still haven't answered taibunsuu's question. Reverse the positions, would you be saying the Arab should be given the benefit of the doubt?

Actually I do not believe they should be given any consideration.

These are die-hard terrorists whose only aim is to kill Americans. They used this tactic in the recent past and will continue to do so as long as they can get away with it. If he did not get to kill any Americans then his death would be meaningless in the eyes of his religion therefore he would not get his 72 virgins.

How many times are you willing to get smacked in the face before you defend yourself?

Originally posted by tomcat
How many times are you willing to get smacked in the face before you defend yourself?

You have a point there, but it was well known before the war that the insurgents would use such methods. So if you know it, but still persevere to invade the country, you're the one responsible, not them.

The US = good because we believe in rule of law, and law and order. We don't cut off the heads of captives or double-tap wounded prisoners.

Then why can't your soldiers adhere to 'law and order' while fighting terrorism? Where was the law and order in the Abu Graihb Prison? Why is Gautanomo bay outside of Geneva and international law?

...

Deep

cheers for xenophile. I basically theorised exactly what you just said actually does happen. I am totally with you, as hard of a topic as this is to talk about. Tactics HAVE changed now. Terrorists don't fight like normal soldiers. They don't have any military law to abide by, no humans rights activists to keep happy. They're entire goal is to kill as many as possible, however you can...

It's not pretty, it SEEMS unethical. But put it this way. You can be reckless, run into a building because someone says they give up and run the VERY real risk of being blown up, or go in, guns loaded, warn the suspect if he makes any suspicious moves he will be shot, and if he does, cap him. In that respect, the only mistake whats-his-face made was not warning the insurgents that if they moved, they would be shot.

War is brutal. It's easy to sit back in our comfy lounge chairs and be backseat military strategists, loungechair soldiers etc, but it's another thing to be there, with the stench of death and decary around you, bullets pinging off buildings, people screaming, things blowing up, the heat & humidity, not being able to trust ANYONE who isn't in coalition forces uniform, crossing your fingers a troop of insurgents isn't going to suddenly materialise out of the woodwork and blow you to hell.

Also, do you really think if a US soldier was lying wounded in a building, the insurgents would take him to a hospital, clean him up, nurse him back to health & put him in a nice comfy detential centre untill the war is over? No, they would either kill him there and then, or they would strut him around on camera for a few weeks, then cut his head off...

How do you retain ethics when fighting an enemy with no ethics?

I stand that guy shooting that terrorist.
For the reasons that those guys fake death and injuries so they can get a cheap shot in on us.

I know this has been posed but again:
You're in war hell, and people are blowing themselves up when they are pretending to be dead, or rolling over and shooting. What do you do when someone is moaning and groaning for hospital. What's the prodedure? It's morally ethical to allow him to shoot and blow up you and five of your buddies, or it's right to shoot him between the eyes.

Happy 72 virgins you POS.

well.... things are getting... a little ...hmmm.... harsh here. I gotta say I agree with all of you. If I were a "terrorist" I woul try to take as many of the occupiers troops out as possible. And I was in the snuffies Boots I woul kill them all so I and my snuffies could live.[They call marines snuffies for a reason.] But don't be to harsh on them even if you think he's wrong. It's been done by every nationality and every army for god knows how long.[ with the possible exceptions of both sides in the Americans War between the states no I forgot Ft. Donelson. this leaves only the North African Theather in WWII.] i never got into an M1 but got some training for familiarty in an M60. Ifelt alot safer there than when i was humping an m-16.

and by the way he only did what nature or God intended. Survial of ones self . survial of your family. then survial of the race. Yea and I would have done as he did.

Originally posted by ZeroDeep

The US = good because we believe in rule of law, and law and order. We don't cut off the heads of captives or double-tap wounded prisoners.

Then why can't your soldiers adhere to 'law and order' while fighting terrorism? Where was the law and order in the Abu Graihb Prison? Why is Gautanomo bay outside of Geneva and international law?

...

Deep

Obviously those were wrong too, duh, which I've addressed many times.

Originally posted by Galvatron

I How do you think people survived in 'Nam with similar fanatic enemies.

people coming home mentally scarred and becoming violent psychos and murderers is hardly surviving
as for the story thats a dam good way of covering for the people who kill without even blinking, you know i dont know whats worse the terrorists who are evil beyond belief or the marines who are stooping to the same level and becoming mindless robots JUST LIKE the terrorists , hey americas answer to everything fight fire with fire not water . No value of human life JUST LIKE the terrorists, keep it up lads you are slowly becoming THEM they are fighting a war which will NEVER be won , ever .and if you think it can be won then you know zero about it. also if you think i know nothing i fought in the gulf war with iraq and have tour of bosnia under my belt , i have seen lives lost on both sides and it isnt funny, I am not de-sensitized like most, the media loves this and we as civilians are just turning into terrorists by losing our compassion for fellow man and becoming totally de-sensitized to violence and having no respect for a persons life no matter what.

I can not honestly say what I would do in the soldiers position, but the situation in Iraq seems quite insane to me. I can't blame him for doing what he did.

For those who condemn the insurgents for using ruthless methods, but approve of US aggression, have you considered the very obvious fact that the insurgents do not have F-16's and F-18's and aircraft carriers and night vision goggles. If my country were being invaded by a force with far superior equipment, I would still use every method concievable to defend myself and my country rather than give up.

A significant number of Americans question the intentions of their own government. I'm willing to bet that a far more significant number of Iraqis are also suspicious.

The concept of invading much weaker nations and then condemning the peoples of those nations for defending themselves against overwhelming firepower is scary and absurd.

Originally posted by Belgarath

The concept of invading much weaker nations and then condemning the peoples of those nations for defending themselves against overwhelming firepower is scary and absurd.

ahh that is perfect well said , but yet thats exactly what the world IS doing

You ask me to answer the unanswerable,

I would have shot the man if he even seemed to be a threat,

but what would the insurgents do to a wounded American is a different manner, they would shoot or behead.

We should not be bound by rules such as these when we deal with these POS.

BUT we managed to keep our cool against japan...or did we?