Members of AboveTopSecret.com: I'm Sad… And Maybe You Are Too…

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Oh hey Skeptic Overlord - I am going to spend the next week after this post writing and finding positive articles to post on A.T.S.

I suggest for anyone who can't refrain from arguing politics, religion, or any other highly debated subject for the next week. They be forced to watch this:

Ten hours of Badger

That'll teach 'em!

Also, it is good if you just have a ten hours to kill....

Thanks,
Blend57

CranialSponge
reply to post by SkepticOverlord

 

Sad ? No.

Frustrated ? Hell yes.

Especially for those of us who don't even know what the hell a "leftist" or "rightist" is, and see this stuff plastered throughout any and every thread on ATS whether or not it's even relevant to the topic at hand.

I'm a conservative, liberal, socialist, progressive, capitalist, communist, anarchist, revolutionary, libertarian, atheist, spiritual, conspiratorial, psychoanalytical rebellious nerdy geek.... and haven't got a friggin' clue where I fit into this "left"/"right" pigeon-holing thing.

Point being: People come in all flavours and the six thousand shades of grey in between.

Labelling and pigeon-holing is what's killing us these days... and it's slowly killing ATS too.



What has changed in the past 2-3 years ?

Conspiracies are no longer the main focus here anymore. It's somehow become a politically driven forum with a side dish of religious table tennis just for added measure.

Instead of politics and religion being the appertif around here, they've become the main entree.

Why is that ?
Hell if I know, but that's what has happened.

And it's a damn shame.

Quoted for truth.

Skeptic...I understand your intention and respect your position. However, there is a war going on in the United States and maybe abroad. Keeping with the atmosphere of your thread, I won't attempt to point out sides, label anyone or otherwise create a disturbance...but allow me to say this. Take this to mean what you wish.

There are forces in our country today that are working tirelessly to control the population. Powers that wish to defeat the vocal and destroy the impassioned. Their goal is simple...complete control of the country and maybe the world through strength, power and money. They wish to impose everything upon the people from religion to food and are currently succeeding. The people have been made weak by their actions, their sales pitches and their attacks and the people are sadly losing.

I will reluctantly honor your wish here, on ATS...but these forces continue their battle 24/7/365 and the people that are willing to fight and haven't already given up must do the same. We are dying as a free society and especially at this time of Christmas and New Years we must celebrate what we believe and what we want this country to be. Not take a break while these forces march forward, taking more ground.

With that said...Merry Christmas, Happy New Years to all. Peace on ATS for a week.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord



Well Said and needs to be heeded in earnest. We know so little of reality, Yet everyone seems the Expert. Those that Know, Don't say, Those that Say, Don't Know. The collective is so ill informed it's classified as Asleep.

We seek an Opening to Awareness, when this will come, well lets just say, caring folks hope to see this occur During their Watch here... ...

reply to post by WeAreAWAKE


If I may, I believe you are missing the point somewhat.

Every one of us here knows that things are not peachy in the world, that there are forces out there which seek dominion over our thoughts and actions. We know this to be true because we see its ripples everywhere, never directly observing, but inferring from its effects, like we do with black holes.

However, I believe the intention of this thread, to have been to remind us all that to demean ourselves by allowing the division of our number based on such obvious manipulation by our various governments, and political parties within them, does us as a membership together, no good. The thread seems to have been an appeal to all of us, from every nation, and every political affiliation, to respect one another in the course of our duty as members to deny ignorance, and I for one agree with the sentiment, and the suggestion.

This is ATS, there is no homeland to fight for here, except ATS. When we are here, we are members of the site first, and citizens of different nations second, and a long third, members of different schools of political thought. I think the intent of the thread was to remind us that as members, we have more in common than we have that keeps us a part, and it is our responsibility to think outside the boxes we are being hemmed into by media and political division in our respective nations.

So, whether there is a battle to fight somewhere or not, that does not mean that it is cool to turn this place, this sanctuary for the mind, into part of the shell pocked wasteland that is the rest of the battlefield. This here is ATS after all, and as members we are expected to think further ahead, be wiser, and more understanding than our current behavior would indicate. Personally, I think that you are right about the state of things as they are, but you do not make your last stand while standing on an altar in a church, you take it outside out of respect.

reply to post by TrueBrit



In many cases all we can do is keep the disagreement to a scholarly tone and non-personal. This is a battle field of ideas and many do not come here to hold hands.

It has been my observation that anti Christian posters and those that create threads couched as exposures of christian fallacy are the most unwilling to be corrected or opposed whatever the tone and however respectful. Next to UFO debunkers, many anti christians here at ATS are the most bigoted, biblically ignorant, tone deaf, agenda orientated and hateful people that visit this site. I do consider some of them "respected foes" and do not discount why some of them have attitudes. As long as we fight it out on threads why does it matter to anyone? If its decorum we need fine but the battle will never end.

reply to post by Logarock


The thing is, membership here means something more than "I clicked agree". If you want to even discuss these issues, then that marks you out as someone with a greater ability to discern, than those who merely observe, forget and continue. This is our sanctuary, this is our platform and our bastion, where no matter what we think, we have an outlet for it.

I have come to understand, that the battle occurs elsewhere. This place, is just a big discussion, not a battlefield, and no matter which side of the divides among us one comes from, one ought to offer fellow members the respect they deserve as persons who elected to come here, and actually talk this thing out. I am a christian as well, but along with bigoted anti-christian posts, I have also seen horrifying examples of ill informed fundamentalist Christian anti-thought, and I will accept that no better than a direct attack on my faith.

My activity on this website has taught me a greater understanding of the world, the people in it, and the daily concerns affecting all nations. I now approach everything from a much more worldly wise position, than I did when I first came here, and the reason for that is, despite my own opinions on faith and politics, I am able to objectively view an incident or scenario, not just from my own limited view point, but from the point of view of the players in it. The reason this is key, is because to judge all things based on ones own limited experience and personal viewpoint, makes one incapable of fairly assessing a situation.

For example, I know the world is going wrong, but I also know that in order to make it right, all people, on all sides, must learn to understand and have compassion for those who oppose them, because only by this method can the angst be reduced, and effective solutions found to the things which ail us all. We can achieve nothing by fury alone, nothing worth achieving anyway.

reply to post by Logarock


Yep, and you can even witness it in this very thread. SO specifically asked for a truce on religious issues. That was the deal. Many posters came here to comment on the situation, seconded him about the truce, then they made religion-bashing comments for all to see, and then promised they would abstain from doing that!

If this was the WWI Christmas truce, here's what it would sound like :

"My brothers, cease fire! Now is not the time for war! Let's fire our mortars *fires mortars to illustrate the point*...no more! We used to tear each other apart *fires mortar, men are torn asunder*...but this night shall be a night of peace!"

reply to post by TrueBrit



Many that come in here have not had a limited perspective prior. Denying ignorance and trying to come to truth on an issue or allowance of the free flow of ideas cannot mean that opinions based on weak and frivolous underpinnings should not go unopposed under any heading. Denying ignorance simply requires to much flexibility for many people to participate in the sort of atmosphere you mention. Common ground for example is not denying ignorance. Giving in to forum social pressure to curb you words for the sake of one thing or another unrelated to the goal of denying ignorance is not denying ignorance.

reply to post by Logarock


The issues which are involved here, are not going to resolve themselves if people do not learn to discuss the issues rather than the personalities involved with them. Reasoned, logical debate however, concentrating on facts, cause and effect, and objective terminology, these will see resolve.

Confronting fallacy is one thing, but that has always been acceptable here, and always will be. Confronting individuals or demographics, however so described, is not productive.

reply to post by Cathcart



Yes and True Brit though he may not recognize it is in effect asking for sanctions under a definition of "theater".

TrueBrit
reply to post by Logarock

 

The issues which are involved here, are not going to resolve themselves if people do not learn to discuss the issues rather than the personalities involved with them. Reasoned, logical debate however, concentrating on facts, cause and effect, and objective terminology, these will see resolve.

Confronting fallacy is one thing, but that has always been acceptable here, and always will be. Confronting individuals or demographics, however so described, is not productive.

Well I am in fact all in with you for reasoned and logical debate.

Will also agree that confronting fallacy is given a great deal of room here.

Getting everyone to stop fighting over religion is a tall order indeed. That is something most people like to bicker about. Most are quick to say `My god is better than your god` and be willing to argue for day on end to prove it.

Yet, if everyone could actually pull this off it would be great. Fresh start for a lot of people in fact. I am all for it.

It’s nothing wrong with dispute, as long as it’s done with civility and respect.

That’s the goal IMO.

In the search for truth there will always be different views, but what we don’t understand is that if the search becomes an acrimonious war, then one defeats the purpose of searching for truth.

Part of that search is to learn love, respect, tolerance, and empathy…the worthy virtues.

One of our greatest wise men, Lao Tzu, said to be one of the founders of Taoism, declared that an acrimonious argument only wears one out.

From experience I can vouch for that.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Yes, I can do that... But it is realy sad that such a request is necessary. More so when individuals use their own religious beliefs as an excuse to make war...and not peace.

Divided and conquered!

I'd much rather live in a world where Christians, Muslims, Jews and other "faiths" or non-faiths, blacks, whites, orientals, hispanics and all others can coexist, a world without border disputes, political divisions and turmoil, wars, hatred, and all other things that divide people into some group or another, just a race, one race of human beings living on a world, striving individually and collectively to live and achieve individual and common goals in life...

Sadly that world doesn't exist, seems it never will. Attempting to control it online may be good if one chooses to hide from the real world, or simply with a click on a screen to make offensive, divisive and inflammatory speech go away.

To deny what we are, to fail to explore the things that divide us in an objective and rational way, to not try to better understand "the other side" is the very thing that serves only to continue to further the divisions.

For humanity, as the world populations continue to grow, so will the issues that divide us, as global economies struggle and collapse, as societies break down, as violence rage and anger grow, wars and man's inhumanity to mankind can only become more intense and inevitable. More and more people fighting for less and less resources, the problems we have in the USA now in the future are likely going to seem trivial.

There really is only one way this all can end...

SkepticOverlord
I'm sad.

This time of year, originating as pagan solstice celebrations and evolving with the Christ Mass, has had core common themes from the Norsemen to modern Christian celebrations; that of hope for the new sun/year, goodwill toward others, and gifts of importance for those in need.

edit on 23-12-2013 by SkepticOverlord because: (no reason given)

I believe what you say but to insert that into your OP is going to "tick off" a lot of believers and if they don't respond there will be a lot of gnashing of teeth........

Merry Christmas.

ausername
I'd much rather live in a world where Christians, Muslims, Jews and other "faiths" or non-faiths, blacks, whites, orientals, hispanics and all others can coexist, a world without border disputes, political divisions and turmoil, wars, hatred, and all other things that divide people into some group or another, just a race, one race of human beings living on a world, striving individually and collectively to live and achieve individual and common goals in life...

Sadly that world doesn't exist, seems it never will.

Thing is, we don't need to go that far. We don't need utopia. Our world can be divided and respectful. We can have groups, borders and factions without trying to destroy each other all the time. I'd much rather stop wishing for perfect harmony, an unlikely goal, and rather focus on making peace with my neighbors.

Cathcart

ausername
I'd much rather live in a world where Christians, Muslims, Jews and other "faiths" or non-faiths, blacks, whites, orientals, hispanics and all others can coexist, a world without border disputes, political divisions and turmoil, wars, hatred, and all other things that divide people into some group or another, just a race, one race of human beings living on a world, striving individually and collectively to live and achieve individual and common goals in life...

Sadly that world doesn't exist, seems it never will.

Thing is, we don't need to go that far. We don't need utopia. Our world can be divided and respectful.

Maybe on ATS, maybe in spirit, maybe through will and coercion. BUT, in reality people who are bitterly divided will rarely ever be respectful of those on the "other side" willfully.