Members of AboveTopSecret.com: I'm Sad… And Maybe You Are Too…

Great thread.

I came to ATS because we the members and our ATS founding fathers all share this common need to make some sort of difference even though we may have conflicting beliefs in politics and religion.

I know for me, joining this community wasnt about beliefs, politics or religion. It was about seeking answers to the thoughts and ideas about our reality we all share. Listening to our thoughts and ideas and having them resonate through you in some way.

Since being a member here I have noticed the material in which this site holds is being put out in the MSM by way of movies and TV shows. Script writers and researchers of the broadcasting world are using this site to get ideas.
Our thoughts and ideas are getting out there in some form or another and making some change no matter how small, and its growing! every year I see more and more material that relates to the topics, threads and posts on this site.

I believe just being a member of ATS is making a change.

A very merry christmas everyone and a happy new year!




PS. ATS wristbands would be awsome.

tgidkp
following is so super off-topic. apologies.

reply to post by Rodinus

 

whereas mine was a clever sound bite, after reading yours I am feeling hungry for far more than a bite!

I cannot say for certain if i have ever had a meal with more than three courses, you know, like at taco bell. they have cheese there. mmmmmm.... cheeeese. drool.

perhaps I should seek nourishment from other sources. but I usually enjoy the offerings at this establishment the best. I am not certain this metaphor is holding together very well. am I doing it rite?

(taco bell? no way. gross.)

edit on 23-12-2013 by tgidkp because: bad children. stay on topic.

What's Taco Bell when it's at home... a chain of fast food restos??

Whoops... i will deny ignorance and Google....

OH MY!!!... SHOCK HORROR!!!!...

I have just Googled Taco Bell... give me a seedy downtown French restaurant (In France)... with fresh bread (baguettes) directly out of the boulanger any day and snails hunted, skinned and prepared the same day too!:... (vicious little buggers they are... They go for your neck if you don't grab them quick enough!)

Kindest respects

Rodinus

Ps. tgidkp If you ever get the chance to pop over to France, you are more than welcome to join us for a meal and some ATS party time... ASK CODY)... ( (SEEING AS SKEPTIC HAS NOT YET PROVIDED FOR A FRENCH OFFICE YET some poor bugger has to sacrifice him/her self!)

By the way Skeptic... need lots of room for a Europe party or convention, just U2U me... i have lots of space free of charge! (right next to my in-laws wine cellar!)

As an extremely new member, and I am the ultimate non joiner, I have no concept of how ats used to be. That said, I lurked for over a year and even then found myself privileged to happen upon some of the posts. What a truly unique community! So I may never know what it was like in the good old days but I feel at home here among intelligent, think out of the box people. Even people who are hugely religious, which I am not, have taught me much here about their world and it's history.

I get that our governments promote division, but ats has so much still going for it. For the "awake" to find community means their is still hope. Don't give up on that.

But in short, I agree. Yes, we need to work together... Count me in.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


There's an metal band who's name prefectly sums up what you are trying to describe- Segression (short for segregated aggression.)

I've noticed the same trend here and there, and it's not limited to ATS. Instead of people with conflicting ideals finding common ground, it sometimes turns into a downright slanging match with little or no insight or solutions. People are being polarized to one side or another, and they shade of grey is quickly dissipating into black and white again.

But on a positive note ATS is still the number one place to go if you're looking for common sense and tolerance. Go to 4chan and you'll either laugh or shake your head.

That is certainly the best post I have ever seen from Skeptic myself.

It's nice to see some consideration has been shown, and hopefully will continue to be shown.

I'm personally not rligious, as I think religion is the biggest farce to be fed to man-kind,

Having said that however, the bashing of religious people by the Atheists is just as tiring.

I've had to take time of ATS, because I was becoming petty - some of the people on this site alter my mentality.

But we are on the internet, home to the worlds greatest minds, and greatest imbeciles..

Lets all take 5 aye..

SkepticOverlord

Manipulating The Narrative

There are republic-threatening problems in the United States (and other countries) that are the unintended consequences of the intense left-versus-right political pissing-match...

darkbake

Well liberals used to...

Nil points.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Ummm....Perhaps that has something to do with the goal posts...The stakes have morphed into improbable heights. Perhaps if Edward Snowden, or Julian Assange had never emerged...Or George Zimmerman...Or proclamations of "could have been my son". Or...more conspiratorial influences such as SSRI medications/self inflicted or "institutionalized" mass harm and the overarching agenda's written throughout these narratives. I think that these latest fiascoes have tended to "bunch our panties" as we get to see more of the suddenly unveiled truths behind them.

Perhaps, it's a reflection of removing the "rose tinted goggles", "throwing open the curtain" and finding oneself...here? It's not too hard to imagine that exuberance plays a small part, as per., new arrivals to the ATS universe. I see a lot of new avatars/screen handles. I also remember how it was to be a
noob/rube and that posters tend to mature out of that after awhile.

However...I think you shouldn't be too shocked to realize that opposing visions are entrenching and rallying behind their respective view points....The fault lies at your doorstep...conspiracy proved real...and suddenly the game grows teeth as you realize that the other side doesn't want to just...play but they want to ELIMINATE you. You are beginning to realize a clash of civilizations, not a more cultured discussion of such...The trenches, baby...the trenches.

YouSir

Oh......and Merry Christmas...................

Without engaging in too much back slapping for this topic (of which there should be plenty), i have to say it is actually pretty sad that it needs saying in the first place......

Politeness and respectfulness cost nothing and actually help to assist in any ongoing debates as people discuss the issues rather than seeing red and simply firing off a response.

However, lets not lose sight of the fact we are all human and therefore all of us are prone to having the odd "tetchy day". Therefore i propose a policy of "tongue biting" when any of us are feeling that way out!

Merry Christmas to all here at ATS, regardless of beliefs, ideologies, race, religion or sexual orientation. And to anyone not covered there!

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

There are republic-threatening problems in the United States (and other countries) that are the unintended consequences of the intense left-versus-right political pissing-match that began getting much worse some time during Bush Sr's reign. Hate now comes easy in nearly any issue, because it appears that any issue can be easily divided across liberal/conservative and religious battle lines. Law enforcement, foreign policy, economics, religion, health care, science, education, entertainment, freedoms, and more… everything.

Yeah.. I'm not too sure what to think about this ATM because there is some truth in this. But when I hear "hate now comes easy" etc, I tend to think about those pushing the liberal agenda and ONLY the liberal agenda because "hate" or "hate speech" seems to only be a term coined by that side of the fence now days.

Personally, I think "hate" has come from all sides of the fence packaged with tons of hypocrisy. This includes hypocrisy from those on the far left who think "Christianity" or groups that support religion in general with a moral code should all be lumped into one horrible evil category and shunned by all of society. It's funny though, I don't see this "hate" for Muslims (or many other religious groups for that matter), by the whole of "liberals" you know..I guess only the "extremist" ones say hey, decapitate your brothers and sisters cause of their lack of beliefs in ALLAH or force the women of Muslim culture to cover their heads in shame and we'll give you a pass cause American "liberals" are too scared to address that issue. We only want to talk crap about "Christians" in the western countries in this hypocritical culture and weed them out among our society cause.. well.. My Grandma was a mean mean and *Christian* judgmental person!

This hypocrisy also extends to those who claim that anyone who disagrees with our current president is a racist, cause, well, he's black (at least, he looks it, even tho it's 50%). Forget about the issues, let's concentrate on the skin color of our leaders and forget critical thinking. We have adapted an emotionally controlled "republic" which relies on mob rule rather than common sense and people cheer in waves when it shows it's face. We have no "Republic" Mr. Skeptic. We have UN-controllable mob rule now, and I can only guess that you (maybe?), and many others are cool with that.

Why are you sad Skeptic? Is it because not everyone believes how you do, or is it because the people who believe like you do would like to see a world where everyone shares the same beliefs? I'm sad too. But I'm sad because I see so much hypocrisy and double standards going on in our society that it seems like we have taken about 100 years worth of steps backwards. I'm sad because of the media, and the social engineering going on. We have already lost, and it's because the dumbed down masses have allowed it, not because we didn't once have freedom. This is a case of "you made your bed, now lie in it". We are now going to pay the consequences of our own judgmental attitudes and our "# don't stink" actions.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Skeptic Overlord...

It strikes me that as things become harder for individuals in the States, so will the number of extremist posts increase. There is not a damned thing that can be done to improve that situation, aside from the circumstances in the country being altered to properly account for the needs of the population. I can however understand your frustration with the way that environmental circumstances outside of your control, are affecting the way the membership comports itself.

I would like to point out however, that the political scenarios playing out all over the western world right now are the most difficult that they have been since this website came into existence. I know that I have not been a member since its creation, I only joined in 07 after all, but I know that there has not been such dissatisfaction with, such indignation against governments in the west as there is today, since the 80s.

With both local, and national governments of the US and for that matter, the UK and other nations in the west, causing strife to so many, it is little wonder that the effects of that would trickle through, permeate the otherwise stable bedrock of this website. Simply, the membership has never been tested so widely, and so strongly, as it is being today.

I would echo your appeal for calm, but I think it is worth remembering that this website has more functions than as a mere social networking tool for discussion of alternative topics. Think about how this period in history could effect the future, think about how important it will be for future generations to learn from this period. This website may have some pretty whacky stuff on it (lets face it, there is no "may" about it. Some of the content here is barmy!) but it also provides on any given day of the week, a snapshot of honest raw opinion on the topics of the day. By examining posts, threads, and the topics discussed on a given day in a year, a future researcher could learn about the way we think about this period in which we live.

Currently, the trend on the website does appear to run more toward division and derision on some topics, but in the future, this website will also serve as an invaluable anthropological resource, because unlike other forums which might be data mined to reveal the mindset of the population of the planet, this great membership is usually more even handed politically speaking, than it is right now. It still contains some of the most thoughtful, some of the most entertaining, and motivated posters on the internet, and it is still run by the most tireless, fearless, and peerless mods, administrative staff, and owners on the web. While those things continue, it might be wise to think not about the general direction of traffic on the site, but how it will be read in the future, what might be gleaned from it by research, and the fact that the issues we discuss and the way we discuss them, will inevitably inform future generations, not only about how we lived and thought in this day and age, but how they might avoid being divided in times to come.

To sum up, I know it is not pleasant to see the membership riven by external factors, especially considering the respect that we ought to all have for one another as people, not just people either, but thinkers, persons of discerning and intelligent character. But times are what they are, and the membership for all our intelligence and reasoning skills, are still human. Sometimes that makes for positives, and sometimes it makes for negatives, but it will always be real, honest, forthright, lacking any pretense of sugar coating. I would say, rather than being sad that people feel angry, and have been divided amongst themselves down non-existent lines, be sad that their government desired that they be so divided, be sad that things have become so bad in the real world, that even this digital sanctuary is no longer free from the taint of the lie. I can understand your sadness Skeptic Overlord, but just as the membership need to have faith that things in the real world will balance out at some future point, that the hardship of today will not last forever, you need to have faith in us, that we can correct our current path of negativity, and remember at some point, why we are all here in the first place.

For my part, I may not agree with the opinions expressed by everyone here, and I know that not everyone agrees with my opinions. But I do respect every member here, and for being a part of this big, crazy, dysfunctional family that we call ATS, I love every one of them. It is probably difficult to discern that from my posts, because I try to stay on topic where possible, and am given to the occasional bout of textual blood lust. But it is still true. I know I am not the only person around here who feels this way about his fellow members. I feel like I owe every single person here a debt, because without them I would have no forum to release my thinking into, no outlet for my creativity and the unique way I express myself, nor would I be able to engage with the thoughts of persons who have a similar level of expressive capacity, enjoy the creativity of the wonderful minds showcased here, and denied these things my life would be much less of an enjoyable experience than it currently is. I value the site, its membership, and no matter what shape things take going forward, that will always be the case.

Take heart, because whatever this fleeting ailment is amongst us, it will not last longer than the bond we share as people, as minds connected in such a nourishing environment as the one this website provides.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Is it bad that this is one of the best things I've read all year!? Thank you! Count me in!!

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


glad to see the site owner saying these things i have been thinking since the day i joined. i can't say i posted in many threads that didn't include everything you have mentioned. i thought perhaps they should change the forum name to "fear and loathing on ATS".

this forum has become an extension of all that is wrong in our world, not an answer as i had hoped. as you have mentioned though, i still see hope in small pockets and will continue to post in the "few" threads that aren't hate filled.

perhaps if you could "help" those who have nothing but ridicule and hate to add in a thread, to no longer post in threads they have no interest in, we could more easily accomplish this task. there is a large difference between opposing opinions being valuable, and rhetoric.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Even reading some of the posts in this thread make it hard to accept your challenge. Blame has already been assigned to one side on why we can't discuss anything civilly. I admire what you say though, it affects me deeply too and with occasional regret I'm more often than not, unable or unwilling to be kind and that probably won't change because it is difficult to not assume a defend and hit back stance but I'll try, for a week.

reply to post by TrueBrit

By examining posts, threads, and the topics discussed on a given day in a year, a future researcher could learn about the way we think about this period in which we live.

TrueBrit, your post was fantastic, and I whole-heartedly agree. This site is, on a daily basis, a place where current researchers can (and do) learn about how the human experience is; and I frequently, after logging off for the day, sit and ponder the interactions I review or in which I participate.

I'm sad, too, SkepO; I've thought of leaving, finding another 'online home', but there are none that compare with this one. I don't know anything about the "Deep Web" or the "Dark Web" (or whatever they call it), except that it sounds scary. Scarier than the current web, which is indisputably 'info overload' for us as a collective.

I've wondered if my emerging malaise and defeated mood comes from being here, or is somehow "healed" by being part of this community, but I certainly have LEARNED a tremendous amount about humanity and the variety of ways we each experience being a part of it.

As TrueBrit says, this is an invaluable "clearing house" of current thought processes; I, too, have noticed an increase in tensions (on my own part as well as the membership in general), and honestly had decided to "chillax" from posting at all for a while.

This thread actually gives me hope, though. I'll stick around, for as long as you all will have me.

With respect, if not always perfectly calm outspokenness,
~wild

There is so much more we share in common as people than the petty things we find to argue and divide ourselves over. I agree completely we've been herded in to our little ideological niches where we find comfort in those of like mind to the abandonment of communication and acceptance of those with differing points of view.

Sensationalizing every topic is what the MSM does best, prompted by special interest groups and sometimes government. An excellent example is this thread -www.abovetopsecret.com... entitled Pedophiles want same rights as homosexuals. Anyone bothering to read the content will find the title to be completely misleading and full of histrionics.

We need to look deeper beyond these false divisions at who wants us divided and why. We need to claim our common humanity and treat even those we disagree with respectfully. The truth often lies slightly outside the boundaries of arguments ready made for us to indulge in. We are falling in to traps constructed to keep us at odds and not looking at those who are doing the real damage to society and to our rights and freedoms.

Keep your eye on the ball and our hearts open toward each other.

Eta: Am I sad? Hell no!
I respect and admire the membership here as I do no other group of human beings. There is a common commitment to truth here and a respect for each other you just can't find anywhere, not just online but in real life.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease - or so the saying goes. It's easy from an administrative or staff viewpoint to see too much of the problem posts and disrespectful members but they are a tiny minority among the collective whole which still functions beautifully.

The heart and soul is the membership and it is doing just fine. There may be new members that have yet to realize the difference that makes ATS exceptional and adjusted their online posting habits accordingly. As they come to understand and appreciate that difference they too will become more of the community and less of the "squeaky wheel".

First of all, may I congratulate ATS team for the superb platform that members like I have tremendously benefited - through reading and posting threads. It is a way for me to understand and develop my own self/being. Honestly, I have not followed the site closely or long enough so I can't be certain how much "plot" ATS has lost. Probably my avoiding topics of religious nature helped.

It is all part and parcel of life that our opinions tend to offend someone who disagrees with our beliefs. Through ATS, I have learnt that it is how we digest critical, sometimes direct or indirect insulting comments that is important. It could become an opportunity for personal soul-searching and learning experience amidst the chaotic world out there.

Last but not least, before the closing of the year, I would like to take this opportunity to apologize to those who feel that my posts have in any way offended them. It is honestly not my true intention, but I know, I have a long way to polish my skills in persuasive debates and writing. Maybe a face to face conversation would have made a world of difference...
While I may not have positively influenced other ATS members, yes, let's hope we will see a better year ahead. My warmest hugs and love to all souls here regardless of our differences. If I'm being all too mushy, you can blame SkepticOverlord.

Happy 2014!

I think it sounds like we're aiming for a level of basic decency to each other and a level of respect held regardless of opinion, position or world view. I can't say I always meet this high bar of conduct and it's probably a sobering statement that it can be termed that way at all. Still, I'll do my best to hold my small end of things to show decency even in the strongest disagreements.

On political rancor and discontent I just have one minor comment and it's a footnote thing on the origin of it which may help any with perspective to move beyond it?

I think the real "no surrender, no retreat" in politics can almost be given a date for when the line was crossed...and I know no one at the time could have known how seriously and how irrevocably it had happened. The day Bill Clinton won his impeachment trial in the Senate. I believe the Dems (rightly) sat back and said "You WILL pay for this..." and the Repubs sat back and said "Shoot! We gave 'er the good college try!"...

Neither side that I recall, ever having a passing thought to the fact therein lay the roots for a tit for tat war that probably has the Israelis and Palestinians occasionally looking at America to wonder what our collective problem is...

United we stand, as a people and the human race. Divided, we fall into endless conflict and petty hurt thrown back and forth forever. I vote United...and thank SO for the time in making this thread, personally.

This is a very good thread. I have seen an upswing in polarity recently. Hopefully I am not contributing to it much. I try to keep an open mind but sometimes do get narrow minded when challenged.... as others do. I will try to be more understanding.

I will occasionally too often, try to make humor out of things to lighten up a thread. That does not always work well though. People can take it as an insult, I do not mean it that way.