A smarty pants scientist makes an easy anaology about our planet - And now I am scared.

Did you really needed this guy to tell you this ? He provided a great reality check though.
It makes you stand still and think.

To bad that most people need someone to tell them, that growing exponential means growing fast.
Bacteria also grow this way, and look what damage they can do in days while being so small you can't even see them.

Keep informing people and spread the message. Maybe someday will come, when we decide to stop needing more and more and more.

It will need a change of habits, and a new way of thinking to convert to a sustainable form life.

I'm afraid that no number of starfish or any other massive die of will be enough to cause a revolutionary change in our way of life... If it does happen, I hope it will before the damage leaves us on only a fragment of the world we once lived in.

Luckily for me though, I'm pretty sure that i'm not gonna be around long enough for it to effect my life.

reply to post by WhiteAlice


I did not see Suzuki's argument as simply being about overpopulation. I saw it more as a depletion of resources. We are hitting a tipping point in which our environment will become quite difficult to live in.
I found this yesterday so I have to agree with you about the soil issues.

Industrial agriculture could be hitting fundamental limits in its capacity to produce sufficient crops to feed an expanding global population according to new research published in Nature Communications. The study by scientists at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln argues that there have been abrupt declines or plateaus in the rate of production of major crops which undermine optimistic projections of constantly increasing crop yields. As much as “31% of total global rice, wheat and maize production” has experienced “yield plateaus or abrupt decreases in yield gain, including rice in eastern Asia and wheat in northwest Europe.”

dramatic-decline-in-industrial-agricultu re-could-herald-peak-food

Sinter Klaas
Did you really needed this guy to tell you this ?

No I have known about what is happening for well over 30 years. This is simply the best and simplest explanation I have yet to find. It does not take a rocket scientist or a long attention span to hear what he says. This is what made me post his video. It goes beyond party lines and is short enough to hold peoples attention. At least until the next Duck Dynasty story.

reply to post by Mamatus

What do we do?

We legislate.

We are damn good at at it.

In the US ESPECIALLY we create new laws at an ALARMING rate. And
some of these laws are the silliest, most invasive, intrusions on our personal
liberty and freedomto be completely INANE. Seatbelts are a great example--
Click-it-or-Ticket.

Some of you think this law is a wonderful thing, without realizing how
ridiculous and illogical it is to have legislation enacted that gives a man
riding a motorcycle, balancing on two wheels, the AUTHORITY to cite other
drivers and remove (from them) their hard-earned cash for NOT PROTECTING
THEMSELVES...it is IDIOCY in its finest form.


So how about we enact a simply piece of legislation that could save the human
race from ultimately foundering in the waste that it will inevitably create.

How about this..."One Child Per Female."

Of course it's not as catchy as Click it or Ticket, but it would drastically
postpone the absolutely inevitable.

We weren't acting like bacteria in a petri dish until the agricultural revolution. Before that point there was a mostly stable population for eons.

So I'd start minute 1 post flood, and at the start of modern agriculture, roughly 11,000 years ago. I think another great pivotal point was the industrial revolution. I'd start minute 58 with the industrial revolution, and minute 59 for the nuclear age.

If we divide 11k by 60, we get roughly 183 years per minute. I'll use 1760 for the IR, and 1943 for the nuclear age.

That means we got until 2123 before minute 60, and 2033 will be 59 1/2.

Meh, I don't think civilization lasts more than 59:30 on the clock.


Tick, tock, tick, tock...

reply to post by Mamatus


He covers some interesting points with the human analogy related to bacteria within a tube having food "placed" not grown inside tube to eat.

Considering the intelligence within the human mind added the bacteria may make more time for themselves if they could learn to grow their own food within the tube and also maintain proper consuming habits intelligence based that would allow food to be grown and consumed at proper bacteria population rates...
This however would cause the bacteria to get involved into various financial and political agenda which in turn may cause a speed up of consummation if not intelligently taught to produce and consume (who would teach the bacteria?)

To 1 mankind can take it various ways, learn to eat more consciously less wastefully/greedy or teach the youth at young ages how to hunt and gather w/ schooling so its implemented into future generations to go hunt/gather what you need for your family to survive, no excess.
Families would be more conscious in design as the hunters would know how many mouths they have to feed and may reproduce at rates more associated to the work needed to hunt/gather for entire families. This may seem odd for some because it would restructure society somewhat & place family dependence more on the families making them instead of exterior dependence.

Keeping it modern game/livestock reservations replace slaughter houses. Hunters go hunt or trap on these reservations maybe twice a week +/- gatherers go to farmlands to gather crops etc...

Work on the farm or reservation pays for hunter/gather fees. Many other social structures employment/barter wise can be made similar. Need electricity gas work for them your work amount fills your account they deduct. Will close there not to get to far off topic but to reiterate he does make some good points.

reply to post by Mamatus


Cool video with a great analogy to how exponential growth and exponential decay relate. I do find his theory SERIOUSLY flawed though.

To compare the earth to a test tube is ridiculous. The earth is a living organism that replenishes itself by simply living. The earth is not going to deplete on us. We are tiny fleas to a giant beast... we are fat and nourished but at the same time influenced by the non-truths spoken by these other fleas.

The earth could shake us off like brushing dirt from trousers if it wanted to. Science will not yet admit that the earth is as alive and conscious as you or I. The only difference is the way we perceive time.

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13


You make an interesting point concerning the ability of humans to grow
food versus the static resources found in the test-tube. But it leaves out
the variable of waste. Where in the tube the resources are finite and the
waste finite, in our eco-system the resources are replenishable, but the
waste WILL accumulate.

The eventuality is that the waste product of used resources eventually
poisons the petri dish, ending sustainability.

But this explanation is long-in-the-tooth and given the short attention
span of most of us, his abbreviated version gets right to the point.

And the point is still the same...the bus is headed for the cliff...

rival
reply to post by Mamatus

 

What do we do?

We legislate.

We are damn good at at it.

In the US ESPECIALLY we create new laws at an ALARMING rate. And
some of these laws are the silliest, most invasive, intrusions on our personal
liberty and freedomto be completely INANE. Seatbelts are a great example--
Click-it-or-Ticket.

Some of you think this law is a wonderful thing, without realizing how
ridiculous and illogical it is to have legislation enacted that gives a man
riding a motorcycle, balancing on two wheels, the AUTHORITY to cite other
drivers and remove (from them) their hard-earned cash for NOT PROTECTING
THEMSELVES...it is IDIOCY in its finest form.

I respectfully disagree about being good at legislating it. The pot is full of too many special interests to so much as label GMO foods. Something that most Nations will not even allow in their borders we can't even get labeled.

Being a rider I love the bit about motorcycle cops giving seat belt tickets. I HATE the helmet laws, of course I wear one religiously but that should be my choice. Hell all these nanny laws have done nothing but help stupid people stay in the gene pool....

reply to post by Mamatus


Well i wish you had given better sampling of what the video said as unable to watch. I do believe however we are reaching our tipping point. We would prolong things here as we are not ready to leave or teraform a planet. But did you see elysium movie. Even that out of reach.

We would bubble up and create habitats until we could leave. So far we have not proven we can even do that though. Every habitat attempted has failed, usually do to air issues. And you are correct about the ocean but not why you think. Yes we get allot of food but most don't understand we get over sixty percent of our air from the life in the ocean. Not fish but algae etc. The radiation is devastating the plankton which provides oxygen and is the building block of all life in ocean.

Despite all the arguments we have changed the climate and it doesn't take all gore to see it. Weather is much more extreme and we are on track for super storms that literally change the earth and don't ever stop.

Look at China, two billion plus and talk about pollution, just check bejing on any given day. No wait, you can't see it through the haze. Lol things are definitely gonna be crazy for our kids.

The Bot

This is a very true thread. Our insatiable desires to increase the economy are causing an increase in the destruction of the environment. Likely, there is no cure for this other than a drastic reduction of population and a destruction of consumerism.

Since the economy will never be changed because of the power behind those who believe it is good, I see the sixty minute mark coming up within thirty years max. That is possibly within my lifetime.

Someone somewhere will leave out some engineered viruses or bacteria to reduce the people on the planet. This is not genocide because no gene pool is targeted. I do not think it will be the ones presently active in the economy though, they would not commit economic suicide. The best way to do this would be to weaken people's immune system. In the end, the remaining people would have to observe strict environmental policies or they will be destroyed.

Oh well, see you all in hell There may be beer there.

What you all are failing to see is that we are still at a point where we can do something about it.

So far the current perspective on this forum is that we are doomed and there is nothing we can do about it.


It's quite the opposite.
As Suzuki states, we can find ourselves another Test Tube (Planet), but just 1 minute later we would fill it up to.
IF... IF we follow our current growth rate.

So what we need to do is stop exponential growth through birth control laws similar to China.
1 child per family.

And only through our continuous farming and harvesting practices will we completely kill off our food supply.
There are many many different ways we can combat this as an issue.
Most of it will require the Governments of the world to relinquish the control they are after.

Also most families should have to grow their own food supply (voluntarily or by force).
Maybe not 100%, but at least 50%.
Which means Corporations will have to relinquish some of their control as well.
We have the technology and the means to be able to provide for ourselves without resorting to raping the environment.

There are quite a few suppressed technologies or highly expensive technologies that need to be released to allow us to do this. Which means more control to be relinquished.
Things like power generators that each home can house... If not made already, food replicators if we don't want to have gardens everywhere.

Home power generation in a proper volume would allow people to live in the deserts.
They can grow their own food, desalinate pumped Ocean water and countless other things.
Through proper control and permaculture techniques, start greening the deserts.

We have so much knowledge, technology and control over our environment that we are well within our capacity to stop exponential growth and turn around climate and environment destruction.
We could also very easily terminate poverty and so many other things afflicting us as a species.

All it needs is those who want control, to relinquish that goal.

reply to post by rickymouse


Not sure about the beer, but am sure to be devouring me some spirits in hell



See ya there, pal.


reply to post by Sovaka


I think runaway greenhouse will put a fork in the sustainability movement. What you said would have worked a generation ago, but we're far passed the point of no return. Sorry.

reply to post by webedoomed


Keeping to your namesake I see.

I disagree.

We don't have a runaway "greenhouse" issue.
We have more than enough plants at the moment to clear our atmosphere if we stopped polluting it.

reply to post by Sovaka


No. We simply don't.

Naivety, or just plain ignorance. I don't care to analyze.

And yet a large percentage of North American and European household discard, daily, food enough for an impoverished family in the third world to keep from starving.

The idea of humanity fleeing elsewhere in the cosmos makes me grimace inwardly. The last thing the universe needs is a continuous spread of clutter and destruction. I don't know how that was ever considered a good price to pay for the continuation of one species.

The earth will become unhealthy enough from our abuses of it and it will kill us long before we kill it.

Then it will start over again, clean itself up by natural processes like weathering and tectonic activity, and we will probably wreck the next test tube too.

There was this thing called the "Commons" once upon a time, it was when the things everyone needed to survive could not be "Owned" by anyone, because everyone needed them.

The first thing that needs to be changed are laws which allow anyone to own more than they need to use for growing their own food and the space people need to do the things they need to do.

It'll never happen though, they'll just keep spouting their "Sustainable development" NONSENSE, to keep those with more than they NEED from allowing those who do not have what they NEED from getting what they NEED.

Capitalism will destroy the world, and all of us along with it, I saw this coming when I was about 6 years old.

People no longer understand that there is a difference between wants and needs.

Regarding Heaven and such nonsense, do you who believe that there is a paradise after we die honestly think we will use that any more efficiently than this paradise?.

You'll just go and wreck heaven too, the same way you wrecked this place.

reply to post by Dianec

What I want to know is - if we are the the 59th minute what will the next 10 years look like? Does he do a video on that? Does anyone have a theory?

Some will give up others will scramble to get more time (or to be the last ones to go). Now the realization that can be made is very simple things will start to become very bad and the nearer you are to the end of the party the more hellish it will become. Believe me, a large portion of people will do anything (somethings that you can't even imagine today) to get those last milliseconds out. Have you seen/read Soylent Green ? (the film is based upon a 1966 science fiction novel, I would call it an educated guess)