The Black Pope strikes his first blow.

reply to post by Violater1

DENY IGNORANCE:
I have my facts straight, you do not, the Pope in the prophecy your are confused about that would be the sitting pope 112 , would be correctly identified as Petrus Romanus (Tom Horn has a book about it) , the Black Pope again would be identified as the head of the Jesuit Order, two different popes, not one in the same as you seem to think.

I know full well that the current Pope is a Jesuit, btw I do not live far from Georgetown University and know about the Jesuits (IHS) , no ignorance here about who they are, but just because he is in the order, he is not the Chief of the order.....so again, you have the prophecy wrong, you should deny ignorance before making a title of a post making such a claim.

Please point out what I have written and find anything that is different from the prophecy, you will again, find you are the ignorant one concerning the identification of the "The Black Pope" and again I hate to inform you that it is not Pope Francis, who is probably the complete opposite of an Evil, plotting the take over of the world figure as you seem to want to sell us.

phinubian
reply to post by Violater1

 

DENY IGNORANCE:
I have my facts straight, you do not, the Pope in the prophecy your are confused about that would be the sitting pope 112 , would be correctly identified as Petrus Romanus (Tom Horn has a book about it) , the Black Pope again would be identified as the head of the Jesuit Order, two different popes, not one in the same as you seem to think.

I know full well that the current Pope is a Jesuit, btw I do not live far from Georgetown University and know about the Jesuits (IHS) , no ignorance here about who they are, but just because he is in the order, he is not the Chief of the order.....so again, you have the prophecy wrong, you should deny ignorance before making a title of a post making such a claim.

Please point out what I have written and find anything that is different from the prophecy, you will again, find you are the ignorant one concerning the identification of the "The Black Pope" and again I hate to inform you that it is not Pope Francis, who is probably the complete opposite of an Evil, plotting the take over of the world figure as you seem to want to sell us.

edit on 21-12-2013 by phinubian because: (no reason given)

Please follow this link and enlighten yourself, deny ignorance.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Back on topic.
The Black Pope is eliminating the priests that follow the word of G_D.

reply to post by Violater1


I looked at the link and it still does not bring any validity to your position that Pope Francis is the Black Pope...
so
Let me quickly shunt this nonsense to ground, follow the link to the Black Pope ok ? then come back and apologize for attempting to belittle my knowledge and simply help yourself in increasing yours concerning the subject you have posted on which is not fully accurate.

The Superior General of the Society of Jesus or the Black Pope

I did not learn about this prophecy or who the Black Pope is on ATS, I followed the thread on the link you posted hoping it would clear this up, so what relevance does that have concerning or supporting the fact that you are wrong ?

From what I gather after following your link it has no relevance to clear your error and does not exonerate you in any way from your incorrect accusation that Pope Francis is the Black Pope, I only bring light, to your darkness concerning this matter, and your flawed interpretation of the prophecy, but yet you insist upon calling me ignorant, I can't follow your logic, just say thanks to me for helping you clear up the confusion you may have caused others that know nothing of the Black Pope.

phinubian
reply to post by Violater1

 

I looked at the link and it still does not bring any validity in to belief that Pope Francis is the Black Pope...
so
Let me quickly shunt this nonsense to ground, follow the link to the Black Pope ok ? then come back and apologize for attempting to belittle my knowledge and simply help yourself in increasing yours concerning the subject you have posted on which is not fully accurate.

The Superior General of the Society of Jesus or the Black Pope

I did not learn about this prophecy or who the Black Pope is on ATS, I followed the thread on the link you posted, so what relevance does that have concerning or supporting the fact that you are wrong ?

From what I gather it has no relevance and does not exonerate you in any way from your incorrect accusation that Pope Francis is the Black Pope, I only bring light, to your darkness concerning this matter, and your flawed interpretation of the prophecy, but yet you insist upon calling me ignorant, I can't follow your logic, just say thanks to me for helping you clear up the confusion you may have caused others that know nothing of the Black Pope.

edit on 21-12-2013 by phinubian because: (no reason given)

Oh yes, the factual content of Wikipedia
Here is an informative link:
copycateffect.blogspot.com...
"Pope Francis is the first Jesuit Pope. The first Jesuit Pope would naturally be the first fully "Black" (i.e. Jesuit) "Pope." It is a circular logical statement that is just common sense, and there is nothing conspiratorial about it.

The Jesuits have often falsely been linked to the origins of the Inquisition. (Dominican Priests were the chief torturers of the Inquisition.) Jesuits were instead the strongmen of the Church, due in large part to the military background of their follower, St. Ignatius of Loyola. (Some thoughts about the Jesuits can be very dark. See here and here, for instance.)

In general, the use of the term "Black Pope" is often experienced as a derogatory nickname given to the Superior General, usually by the media and never utilized by the Jesuits themselves. Nevertheless, to ignore its use is to be blind to the "name game" being played here.

They are sometimes referred to as "God's Marines" or the church's "storm troopers" - a band of priests and missionaries who live sparse lives and are willing to accept religious orders anywhere in the world, sometimes living in extreme conditions....The order elects its own leader, known colloquially as the Black Pope because of the black vestments worn by the Jesuits, at a conclave in Rome, where members from around the world gather to make their choice. The current leader is Father Adolfo Nicolás, of Spain."

Deny ignorance.

Yes, he is the first Jesuit Pope.
abcnews.go.com...

reply to post by Violater1


So since I am ignorant, help me with the interpretation that I have of identification of the Black Pope
The Black Pope, Adolfo Nicholas, is the Superior General of the Jesuits, the leader of the Jesuit order (Wears Black)
The Pope, Pope Francis is the infallible leader of the Catholic Faith and Vicar of Jesus/God (only a member of the Jesuit Order)(Wears Scarlet or Red and White)

Now if Pope Francis is appointed to be head of the Jesuits then my friend I will wholly and fully agree with you! But just because the Jesuits wear Black it does not mean Pope Francis is "The Black Pope" that is a stretch.

Anyhow another link for you reading or viewing pleasure all about "The Black Pope"
The Black Pope

phinubian
reply to post by Violater1

 

So since I am ignorant, help me with the interpretation that I have of identification of the Black Pope
The Black Pope, Adolfo Nicholas, is the Superior General of the Jesuits, the leader of the Jesuit order (Wears Black)
The Pope, Pope Francis is the infallible leader of the Catholic Faith and Vicar of Jesus/God (only a member of the Jesuit Order)(Wears Scarlet or Red and White)

Now if Pope Francis is appointed to be head of the Jesuits then my friend I will wholly and fully agree with you! But just because the Jesuits wear Black it does not mean Pope Francis is "The Black Pope" that is a stretch.

Anyhow another link for you reading or viewing pleasure all about "The Black Pope"
The Black Pope

edit on 21-12-2013 by phinubian because: (no reason given)

All Catholic orders are subservient to the Pope. Therefore he is the leader.

reply to post by Violater1


Nice try at a spin move, I'll give it to you fella, you're slick.

phinubian
reply to post by Violater1

 

Nice try at a spin move, I'll give it to you fella, you're slick.

No spin here, as well as nothing slick. If you knew anything about Catholicism
you wouldn't have made such a grievous mistake.
But it is I who must give you credit. Since you are curious about G_D, and have such a misguided knowledge
of Church affairs, I should direct you to a priest to thoroughly teach you.
Since you already stated that you live close to Georgetown, I recommend that you start there.
Merry Christmas

reply to post by Violater1

All Catholic orders are subservient to the Pope. Therefore he is the leader.

Correct.

Once a Jesuit, or a member of any order, is made a Bishop, they are no longer under the jurisdiction of their order.

Canon 705 is clear: "A religious raised to the episcopate remains a member of his institute but is subject only to the Roman Pontiff by virtue of the vow of obedience and is not bound by obligations which he himself prudently judges cannot be reconciled with his condition." In other words, any Jesuit bishop, including the bishop of Rome, is still a Jesuit but he does not have to follow orders of any Jesuit superior, even the Jesuit superior general. A Jesuit who does not have to follow the orders of a Jesuit superior is certainly a strange bird, but he is still a Jesuit. (Source)

reply to post by Violater1


The essence of the point which I am arguing about is that you are wrong in calling the current pope at the Vatican the Black Pope, period, and none of the other irrelevant Mumbo Jumbo you brought to the discussion neither defends your wrong claim that he is and neither invalidates my main point, that you are incorrect in labeling Pope Francis as the Black Pope, consulting a priest will not assist in righting your own wrong interpretation, maybe you missed the point or just refuse to own up to the fact that you are wrong, which I can understand.

Your Final attempt to tie in the hierarchy of bishops etc , let me know that the pope leads the church , is an entirely different matter, you seem to bring that into the discussion to offset the original point I made above since you would not simply say, the Black Pope is and throughout history referred to as the Leader of the Jesuit order, not to the sitting pope.

That my friend is fact.

Thank You and you have a Merry Christmas sir!

reply to post by Violater1

It's an interesting thread, and I agree that Pope Francis is beginning to cause a little concern in some parts of the Church. I'm glad that you brought it up, and I hope the discussion develops fruitfully. I'm a little worried about how you started the discussion though. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but I'd like to point out some of my objections, with the hope they can be cleared up.

Widely accepted is, then Cardinal Bergoglio’s (of Gog and MaGog?) proclamation that he did not want to become Pope.

The Gog, Magog comment is uncalled for and, unfortunately, creates an unappealing image of your work. I wouldn't think that anybody wants to become Pope, at least I would worry about anyone who did.

As has been pointed out, any sane person would hesitate before accepting. One glance at the job description would scare anybody. Who is going to answer "Sure, I can do it, it's just right up my alley?" Neither you nor I have any reason for believing that his hesitancy was anything else than suddenly being faced with the possibility of what was ahead.

The "Black Pope" question has been dealt with by other posters, it should no longer be an issue.

Now comes the news that Pope 112 has removed Cardinal Raymond Burke. Cardinal Burke stated that he would not give Communion to John Kerry for supporting abortion rights.

First, he was removed from one powerful position, but is still a Cardinal with responsibilities. Second, how are you so sure that the Kerry affair was what caused this change?

The same question may be raised concerning Cardinal Piacenza. Further, how do you reach the conclusion that Pope Francis does not want to reinforce traditional values? What has he done to show this?

Justin Cardinal Rigali is almost 79. He has to retire at 80. He had to be replaced in just over a year anyway.

As far as your quote "Get with the program or your gone," I wonder where you got that from. It certainly isn't in the article you linked. Even if it were, should we be surprised that the pope or any leader wants people around him that he feels comfortable with? "Crucified for the truth?" A very mild crucifixion indeed, as they remain Cardinals.

I agree that Francis looks like a more liberal pope than Benedict XVI. No one knows yet how much more liberal or whether that will be good or bad. There will be much to say about him after his policies become more clear. Right now, I'm very cautiously optimistic.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


I agree, but unfortunately the prevailing school of thought who follow who "The Black Pope" is or conspiracies about it, happens to be the one that I use, that title refers to the Jesuit General and no one else not the sitting pope, now whatever an ATS thread concludes on and resolves that is the opinion they have, that's all, I just point that out because I do, despite being called ignorant for coming up against the OP study the mainstream history of some of those very prophesies.

I just do not like to be called ignorant for using facts and common knowledge and present the basis for my calling his characterization incorrect.

reply to post by Violater1


And you deliberately deceived a non catholic by referring to the sitting Pope as the black Pope....which I believe was intentional on your part. As for John Kerry...I really don't care if he receives communion...as far as I am concerned as long as he is involved in politics he will continually be a washed in sin and therefore not saveable in my eyes. As for a murder....the person he murdered is still dead and gone which to me means the murderer is still living in sin however all faiths preach that he is forgiven, so again a vote one way or another for abortion does not equate the sin...the one who receives the abortion and perhaps the one that provides the abortion are the ones who live in that sin....communion is simply a rite...a ceremony and probably means nothing to God as it certainly does not mean the man wont sin again and again....just saying

And might I add since it is well known that many Priest including Bishops who have abused children outside the womb yet remain protected by the church, they have sinned yet still receive communion I'm sure simply because of the protection of the church....sin is sin...cannot have cake and eat it too

phinubian
reply to post by Violater1

 

The essence of the point which I am arguing about is that you are wrong in calling the current pope at the Vatican the Black Pope, period, and none of the other irrelevant Mumbo Jumbo you brought to the discussion neither defends your wrong claim that he is and neither invalidates my main point, that you are incorrect in labeling Pope Francis as the Black Pope, consulting a priest will not assist in righting your own wrong interpretation, maybe you missed the point or just refuse to own up to the fact that you are wrong, which I can understand.

Your Final attempt to tie in the hierarchy of bishops etc , let me know that the pope leads the church , is an entirely different matter, you seem to bring that into the discussion to offset the original point I made above since you would not simply say, the Black Pope is and throughout history referred to as the Leader of the Jesuit order, not to the sitting pope.

That my friend is fact.

Thank You and you have a Merry Christmas sir!

edit on 22-12-2013 by phinubian because: (no reason given)

Again, your facts are wrong, and I have pointed them out with links to prove that I am right.
Yet you troll on.
This is my attempt to educate you. Acceptance, or denial, it's your choice to deny ignorance.
He is the black pope: abcnews.go.com...
He IS The First JESUIT Pope. www.ibtimes.com...
All of the Superior Jesuits and are obedient to the Pope.
Canon Law 705: Can. 705 A religious raised to the episcopate remains a member of his institute but is subject only to the Roman Pontiff by virtue of the vow of obedience and is not bound by obligations which he himself prudently judges cannot be reconciled with his condition.
www.vatican.va...

The Trolling stops here.
The facts are thus reiterated.
The pope has dealt his first blows at dividing his flock.
He has removed priests that continue to believe that living in sin is wrong.
He has not ejected any of the pedophile priests.
And he endorses wrong is right.
I'm not saying that he is Satan, yet remember, Satan appears as a creature of light to draw us to himself and his lies. 2 Corinthians 11:14
2 Timothy 4:3-4 we discover that many people will follow false teachers.
Peace be with you, and Merry Christmas

reply to post by Violater1

This is my attempt to educate you. Acceptance, or denial, it's your choice to deny ignorance.
He is the black pope:

No, he is not.

The Superior General of the Society of Jesus is the official title of the leader of the Society of Jesus—the Roman Catholic religious order, also known as the Jesuits. He is generally addressed as Father General. The position sometimes carries the derogatory nickname of the Black Pope, after his simple black priest's vestments, as contrasted to the white garb of the Pope. The current Superior General is the Reverend Father Adolfo Nicolás. (Source)

Pope Francis is not the Superior General of Jesuits, so he is not the "Black Pope".

reply to post by Violater1

Dear Violater1,

I must admit that you are confusing me. What do you think the phrase "Black Pope" means? maybe that's where the misunderstanding lies. Yes, he is a Jesuit, everybody agrees with that, no one is denying it.

The ABC article you linked to makes no mention of "Black Pope," in fact in the blog article you linked to earlier, it says that the media usually apply that derogatory nickname to the head of the Jesuits.

Do you believe that the head of the Jesuits and Pope Francis are the same person? Wouldn't he also be, then, the head of the Franciscans, Dominicans, Carmelites, and everyone else?

Why is it so important to you to believe that Francis is the "Black Pope?"

With respect,
Charles 1952

Oh, I don't think you were accurate in calling phinubian a troll. A quick apology is in order. - C -

watchitburn
As someone who has no vested interest in who the Pope is nor in any religions. This one actually seems like a legit dude who is just trying to do some good.

And isn't the "black pope" supposed to be some nefarious guy hiding in the shadows of secret Catholic sects working against the goals of the publicly elected Pope?

Oh well, it's all irrelevant in the long run.

I think the phrase that best suits this guy for me is ' in garment of light the devil comes' aka wolf in sheeps clothing aka what seems to be, usually isn't. When I see him and the cult of personality surrounding him, I see craft...a crafty tactic of an insidious organization that still will not step up to its actual responsibilities to its victims.I have a very firm feeling he will be taken out soon enough anyway, he has upset the curia no end and its only a matter of time.

reply to post by Violater1


You don't have the links that show you're right, as others have mentioned (and I guess I'm bandwagoning).

The Superior General of the Society of Jesus is given the sobriquet of the Black Pope. It's a derogatory colloquialism popular amongst Protestants, the media and anti-Catholics and is a term not used by the Church or by the Jesuits.

The current Superior General is Adolfo Nicolas. Not the Pope.
www.sjweb.info...

Being the Pope doesn't bestow the titles of the head of the various orders to the current occupant of the Chair of Peter.

Eric

Violater1

Please gather your facts [SNIPPED] The current Pope IS a JESUIT!

Still, he is not the Black Pope. The Superior General of the Jesuit Order is the Black Pope. That is currently Adolfo Nicolás.