Should Pregnant Woman Be Taken Off Life Support?

reply to post by windword

I can't even imagine how living and growing inside your dead mother might affect the psyche of someone, but knowing that fact later would have to have an unpleasant affect on one's self image and outlook on life, in my mind.

First of all she isn't dead! And what negative effect should that exactly have for the Child's life? Knowing that the mother's body gave it's last resources to make the Kids life even possible? That's something to be proud of and true love on behalf of the parents. Apparently not everybody seems to get this, but I'm sure everybody posting here is pretty happy to be alive and not aborted.

I dont understand why this an issue either.
I might not as an individual want to be kept alive on life support, but to save my child? that changes the whole ball game.
I cant belive that people dont want even to give this baby a chance, but want to see it die with it's mother.
I am definitely on the side of the child on this one.
I cant get my mind around giving up on your child this way.

reply to post by WilsonWilson


I can't help but agree.

I also highly doubt that in their conversations about "NEVER being kept alive by machines," did she ever imagine it would happen during her pregnancy.

I doubt that any woman that wanted her new baby would want it to be allowed to die if she knew it could be saved, and healthy.

As I stated previously, there is no way now to know the state of the fetus, only time will tell, but I agree that every chance should be afforded a once wanted child.

I understand the spouses dilemma, in feeling he must grant her wishes, but, I also feel something just doesn't add up. He seems to not want the child.

All in all, it is a good thing the state took custodial care, because only in the end if the child survives, will we know the true intent of the father. The state would be wise to maintain custody of that child for a time, considering the attitude. I am certain they would have no problem placing an infant for adoption, considering the family also supports his desires.

The body will spontaneously abort (miscarry) the baby if it is in fetal demise, but the article states there is a normal heartbeat. If something is seriously wrong with the baby at birth, he does not have to accept the child.

Also, if I rememeber correctly, if the mother was oxygen starved, the body does conserve oxygen more for the fetus.

As I said, I would be more concerned about the drugs, and side effects, from now until birth.

The brain obviously runs the body, and if she starts neurostorming, or herniates and damages the neuro pathways to sympathetic and parasympathetic systems, the drugs may not even keep HER alive. Brain death is a tricky thing, and not just so simple as plugging someone into a vent and tube feeding them. Any number of complications can arise, including vent aquired pneumonia, hospital aquired MRSA, catheter infections, only to name a few. Add in the complications of pregnancy, and you double the complications of the brain dead, or vent dependent patient.

Also, until they do a brain flow study, which it appears they have not, brain death is not yet confirmed.

From the article, it sounds like she likely herniated, which can be tested by vent and reflex testing. If she had hypoxemic encephalopathy, the swelling likely did cause herniation, but again, the article leaves that to speculation.

He is going to feel like a total idiot if she survives. Without more information, though, we don't know her exact state at this time.

Very interesting and very sad.

I myself am against abortion, I do not think it is right to kill a unborn child just because that child is some kind of "inconvenience". For me it is not a religious thing its more a personal acknowledgement that I do not think it is right

That said I do have some exceptions for example if a woman is raped she should not be forced to carry the unwanted child.

I think this would be another exception, I think if it were viable to save the child before birth then they should make attempts to do so, however if this is not viable and the family want the life support machine switched of then medical staff should have the power to oblige to these wishes. The machine should be turned off and they should let nature take its course.

I suppose it really is a tough choice so I can appreciate others who would say keep the mum alive.

but essentially this woman is dead

her body is now a glorified incubator

reply to post by Hellas

First of all she isn't dead!

She's brain dead, and only being kept alive by machine.

And what negative effect should that exactly have for the Child's life? Knowing that the mother's body gave it's last resources to make the Kids life even possible?

No, the mother's body isn't "giving it's last resources to make the life possible", the hospital is force feeding and regulating the body, turning her body into no more than an incubator. There is no guarantee that this fetus will even be viable after the distress that it's host went through, from 14 weeks.

That's something to be proud of and true love on behalf of the parents. Apparently not everybody seems to get this, but I'm sure everybody posting here is pretty happy to be alive and not aborted.

There is no "true Love" from either parent here. And, there is no abortion. There is only Texas law refusing to allow the brain dead mother's body to die naturally, and therefore, naturally taking the fetus with her.

I can' even fathom the pro-life mind that equates a pregnant woman's natural death to an abortion!

This is proof of what women really are in and to this society - nothing but baby machines. Women, your uterus belongs to the State. BREED!

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This is proof of what women really are in and to this society - nothing but baby machines. Women, your uterus belongs to the State. BREED!

Women these days are not, to quote you "forced to BREED" ... They have the

ability and freedom to have or not to have children.

Various methods of contraception, the morning after pill and access to

free and safe abortions!

So I cant see how you think that society sees them as - "nothing but baby machines"??


However there are a percentage of women who use their fecundity to freely

'BREED' and provide themselves with benefits and housing, and a life without doing

anything to actually support themselves!

reply to post by eletheia


TPTB are forcing a dead body to carry a fetus. Don't you think that's just a bit queer?

Oh wow isn't this how Satan is borne in one of those B movies?

I really hope that if the baby is borne and survives that no one tells the kid the circumstances he/she was borne under.

The entire thing is pretty creepy to me.

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reply to post by eletheia

 

TPTB are forcing a dead body to carry a fetus. Don't you think that's just a bit queer?

Whilst I totally agree that its a very sad and bad situation .... One woman doesn't

equate to ALL WOMEN as you inferred in your post ...

reply to post by eletheia

This is not an entirely new scenario >>>

I've done a little research and found out how right you are!

The baby born to a brain-dead mother: Foetus survives from 15 to 27 weeks while mother is on life-support before being delivered by C-section
31-year-old Hungarian mother suffered a stroke when 15 weeks pregnant
Tests revealed she was brain dead but the foetus was still healthy
Rather than switch the life support machine off, doctors left it on until the 27th week of pregnancy, when the mother's physical health declined
Baby born by Caesarean and mother's life support turned off 2 days later
Despite weighing only around 3lb, baby is now doing well, doctors say


I applaud the scientific breakthroughs made possible by this experimentation, research and success, but I really think that these kinds of decisions shouldn't be mandated by the government, but by family choice and decisions. "Choice" should be the paramount, in my opinion.

I understand, to a certain degree, the reasoning behind the state placing such a medical mandate for pregnant women. Unfortunately, the mandate does nothing to guarantee medical standards for monitoring, evaluating and providing cutting edge technology and medicine to the fetus.

Another question is "Who will be pay for this?" The family can't be held liable for the bills and insurance companies can't be compelled to pay for experimental methods, I don't think..... I don't know, but it seems to me that Texas taxpayers are taking this one on the cuff.

Eleven other states has instituted this law, and I am at a loss to find any debate on the ethics or religious implications of this law at all. But, I'll keep looking...........

reply to post by windword



That wasn't the case I was referring to ... so that makes it yet another case?


The case I was referring to occurred in the mid 1950's in a place called Wallsend,

Newcastle on Tyne, here in the UK.


I didn't need to research it as it is in my 'memory bank.' The main difference in this

case is that the woman was 'unconscious' throughout the final six months of her

pregnancy. (I don't believe the term 'brain dead' was used at that time) Using the

terms of the time she was 'refrigerated.' After the baby was safely delivered she

did regain consciousness, and she did suffer some brain damage.

At the time it was considered quite a break through and somewhat of a

medical miracle!!


The main point with this case (unlike the one in your OP) is that the doctor and

the family agreed the treatment, the state was not involved at all, which

is as it should be, it is a personal decision.


As to who pays the bills here in the UK the government picks up the tab for all

medical needs.

reply to post by eletheia

That wasn't the case I was referring to ... so that makes it yet another case?

Well, the article I linked was, specifically, about an Hungarian woman, and it went on to say:

She added that there were three reported cases of births when the mother was declared brain-dead 15 weeks into her pregnancy - but one of those babies did not survive.

Now, this may, or may not be, Texas' first case of a pregnant, brain dead women, 14 weeks along in her pregnancy, to be kept artificially alive on life support. And, seeing how there are 11 other states in the USA that have mandates requiring pregnant women be kept on life support, we have no idea how many brain dead, or otherwise comatose, women have be kept alive, against their's or their family's wishes, strictly to support a fetus, that didn't survive.

reply to post by windword


This case is different. I am sorry for the family but........the baby has the right to life.
We all know that, legally, a woman's rights supersede that of their unborn child. In this case the mother is legally brain dead. She can no longer make the choice of whether her baby should live or die. The husband, as in the case of abortion, should not have a say. It is now the child's right to choose. Wait until he or she is 18 and ask them.

Fourteen weeks?

The state of Texas?

Against the family's wishes?

This is communism. Or worse. What the hell is wrong with Texas?

The fetus is not viable without the mother. The mother is dead.

reply to post by Quadrivium

This case is different.

Yes, it certainly is. But I'm concerned that this is LAW in no less than 13 states!

I am sorry for the family but........the baby has the right to life.

I, respectfully, disagree. I don't think that anyone has the right to "heroic measures" or extreme measures to save one's life, but I think it's wonderful that we can and that we do!

Wait until he or she is 18 and ask them.

Right now, doctors are just waiting for 24 weeks, to see if the fetus is "normal" which is highly doubtful.

windword
reply to post by Quadrivium

 

This case is different.

Yes, it certainly is. But I'm concerned that this is LAW in no less than 13 states!

I am sorry for the family but........the baby has the right to life.

I, respectfully, disagree. I don't think that anyone has the right to "heroic measures" or extreme measures to save one's life, but I think it's wonderful that we can and that we do!

Wait until he or she is 18 and ask them.

Right now, doctors are just waiting for 24 weeks, to see if the fetus is "normal" which is highly doubtful.

Why do you doubt the baby will be "normal"?
In 1973 my mom started hemorrhaging while pregnant with me. She lost A LOT of blood and passed out for a couple of days.
I am "normal"...........................I think?

reply to post by Quadrivium

Why do you doubt the baby will be "normal"?

Because the woman suffered a brain embolism and went for too long without oxygen. When she was found, she was already blue, and paramedics weren't able to revive her or get her to breath. To my understanding she didn't get oxygen until she arrived at the hospital and was put on a respirator. The doctor's declared her brain dead, my guess is because of the lack of oxygen.

In the article, the husband states his concern that the fetus was harmed, due to lack of oxygen, and fears the baby will have serious health problems.

Typically, doctors can't detect serious problems with the fetus until about 24 weeks, but Texas has banned abortion past 20 weeks, so it will be interesting to see how this plays out, regardless of the viability of the fetus.

This law has been on the books for a while now, and is being applied in at least 13 others states. I'm sure that there are no shortage of pregnant women that die in hospitals from various different causes, but this is the first case I've heard of, and we really don't know how often this happens. However, my research seems to indicate that only 2 people, worldwide, have been born after their dead mother was kept artificially alive, and I think both mothers were farther than 14 weeks along. I'm afraid the odds are against this little guy.

reply to post by Quadrivium

Why do you doubt the baby will be "normal"?

So now we know.

Attorneys for the family of a brain-dead pregnant woman who is on life support in a Texas hospital said Wednesday they have medical records showing the fetus is "distinctly abnormal."
They issued the statement, they said, to clear up any “misconceptions about the condition of the fetus.

“Even at this early stage, the lower extremities are deformed to the extent the gender cannot be determined,” the statement says.
In addition the statement says the fetus has swelling of the brain — “hydrocephalus” — as well as a possible heart problem.

“Quite sadly, this information is not surprising due to the fact that the fetus, after being deprived of oxygen for an indeterminate length of time, is gestating within a dead and deteriorating body, as a horrified family looks on in absolute anguish, distress and sadness,” the statement from Munoz's lawyers Heather King and Jessica Janicek read.

usnews.nbcnews.com...

So, there it is. All for naught!

Texas, the state with a government so small, it can fit in a woman's uterus!

The Judge just gave the order to remove life support from the pregnant woman.. Very Sad..

God bless them