Colossal Cosmic Accelerator Discovered Hovering Above Earth

reply to post by Asktheanimals


I'd like to go for a ride but don't think I'm up for getting squeezed like a sausage. Maybe a 'ship' constructed like a series of balloons within balloons, and me at the center. Might work.

All stellar bodies have these ....they also automatically convert 2-Dimensional potential space-time into the usable 3-Dimensional sort.Of course,they also generate time for the local 3D brane should it be needed.







Okay,I'll get me jacket.

reply to post by SLAYER69

Maybe someone here that's a bit more Sci savvy can explain this to those of us with a thirst for knowledge but don't have the letters at the end of our names to fully comprehend the implications of such discovery in plain English.

Please

I think there trying to say that that there is nothing new under the sun. And if a man or woman can think of it, its likely that nature and the universe has done it already, sometimes the greatest discoveries have been going on right under our noses the whole time...But hey! science is the observation of nature and its forces and laws. It does not generally create, it merely points out something that was there already the whole time, it is then generally to be interpreted and understood in new ways.

Lets take a step back a moment and do a reality check

There is a big difference between energy and power when talking about particle accelerators. There is also no linear correlation between accelerator energy and power to diameter for a proton synchrotron. It is only the strength of magnetic field you can generate in the RF cavities and focusing magnets that determines the limit and size.

We are not talking about vast numbers of particles when they talk about the acceleration in the van allen belt so it is not really a focused beam.

One of the most powerful beams in the world is not actually the LHC, it is the JPARC Beam. This produces bunch sizes of about 10^13 protons, compared to 10^11 in the LHC, however the difference is that the jparc beam energy is only about 30-50GeV were as the LHC is at the TeV scale.

So what happens when one high energy particle hits you? Well not much really, you are actually getting passed through right now by muons from cosmic rays at a rate of about 10 a second, they don't do that much to you. The difference being the above. A handful of particles a second passing through you is actually not a big deal pretty much regardless of the energy. But if that is say JPARC or LHC power... that is not a good place to be. The JPARC Beam has a target for producing the T2K neutrino beam made from a long graphite rod... it is helium cooled. Without cooling, it would shatter in about 2-3 seconds because of the heating. So no, i dont want to stand anywhere in the beamline, and nor should anyone else.

It is similar to how reports of high radiation levels in Fukashima when reporters walk around with radiation dosimeters make things sound super scary, but then later point out that they got a higher radiation dose on the flight over to Japan than a whole day walking around the site.

I think this is extremely interesting, and perhaps this isn't so much of a new discovery since we always saw high energy particles streaming in at the poles, more of a confirmation of a few of our theories that at the poles we basically see particles spiral in in a synchrotron like action, powered by the earths magnetic fields and a closer look on the mechanism.

reply to post by Zaphod58


It is fairly obvious that even the thinnest areas, and lowest duration of time in the belts would provide a death sentence for anyone in such crafts as Apollo.

It is also obvious that it became very difficult indeed to maintain a charade of being able to go to the moon being easy as pie.

Thus not one public attempt going on in 40 + YEARS.

Simply tired of the easy bailout descriptions given by tired minds that cannot fathom easier, and better ways of figuring out the Universe.

Such as, Why Not Look At This From A Starting Point that has some RELEVANCE... instead of trying to make-believe that all of this has the fake "Scientific" Dull Approach, to make it look like any of this started off with no REASON.

Regarding the Van Allen Belts and astronauts....

The belts are toroidal- think doughnut, and are most energetic along the geomagnetic equator.

The Apollo flights launched with a trajectory that took them above the Earth / Moon orbital plane and through regions several orders of magnitude less energetic than the central regions thus avoiding the highest radiation levels.

Source
Scroll to approximately mid-page.

reply to post by ParasuvO


Let me guess, you need a massive lead shield to be safe right?

Why couldn't Apollo have done it? Give solid technical reasons why they couldn't have. Because Apollo was almost perfectly shielded for the type of radiation they were facing in space, and getting through the Belts, along with their trajectory.

This is so cool, as I have often wondered where I might find a Colossal Cosmic Accelerator.

No, really, it's really awesome that this discovery, or RE-discovery has been made. Now, all we need to do is factor some of the pyramids into the equation so that we get a quiet, almost surreal, blanket of silence about it for the next twenty or so years.

Christmas comes early for some.

Shielding depends highly upon what radiation you are trying to stop.

Gammas, basically you need lead
Beta radiation is stopped by almost anything, so lead works too but you dont need all that much.
Alphas and high energy ions such as Protons (most of the primary cosmic rays are protons) basically you want a high hydrogen content material such as HDPE or HDPP which is extremely effective.


So again, it is only for the hard gamma's that you need to shield for with heavy materials, typically radiation shielding can be performed without the need for lead for space applications

reply to post by ErosA433


That's true for radiation on earth. For GCRs, the lighter the shielding the better, due to their high speed. A dense material like lead would have so much secondary radiation given off by a GCR entering it that you'd cook the crew in no time. The best shielding is actually plastics and composites, even for gamma rays when in space.

MarioOnTheFly
reply to post by Phage

 

This will probably sound stupid...could I just walk into the CERN particle accelerator, close the door and engage the machine? what would happen to me if anything ?

This man stuck his head inside a particle accelerator.

www.neatorama.com...#!p9rRn

I wouldn't call it harmless.

reply to post by DogMeat


Nice to see someone agrees with such dangerous facts. For man to fly to the moon he would require a capsule that had walls made of lead and each wall around 3 foot thick. Hence the reason for experts remaining quiet about such. I am no expert at all, but have heard physics experts explain such time after time.

reply to post by ParasuvO

It is also obvious that it became very difficult indeed to maintain a charade of being able to go to the moon being easy as pie.

I don't recall anyone ever claiming that getting to the Moon and back was easy.
Or is that just a straw man argument?

Yeah. I guess it is.

reply to post by Zaphod58

Their shape, and density has been studied since they were discovered and they had been mapped fairly well by the time of the Apollo launches. It wasn't too hard to plot a trajectory that took Apollo through the thinner portions of the belts, where their exposure levels would be lower.

Yes...I'm aware of the official line.

here is a little tidbit...about Apollo 11

The far edge of the electron belt was reached in about 90 minutes, the inner zone was traversed in about 30 minutes, and the region of the most energetic particles was skirted in just about 10 minutes.

What I'm wandering here is...since it's a natural particle accelerator...and let's say that the most of the route they took...was harmless...but they spent at least 10 minutes traversing the high energy particle section of the belts...


So my final question...can I stand in a LHC...for 10 minutes...while at full power (which probably has much lower power than this giant particle accelerator) and get away with it...unharmed ? They didn't have much shielding back than.

On February 28 2013, a third radiation belt was reported to be discovered. In a news conference by NASA's Van Allen Probe team, it was stated that this third belt is generated when a mass coronal ejection is created by the Sun. It has been represented as a separate creation which splits the Outer Belt, like a knife, on it's outer side, and exists separately as a storage container for a month's time, before merging once again with the Outer Belt. [11]

Also worth a mention that Van Allen probes were launched to better understand the belts and their interaction with the sun.


So, only in 2013...NASA discovered a 3rd belt. I'm sure that's just one of the things we didn't know about the belts back than.

So in essence, I would conclude that there were multiple unknown factors that could have played a role in the success of the astronauts traversing the belts...because we certainly didn't know everything about them at the time...yet somehow...nothing went wrong.

If you don't know about it...it than can't hurt you

funbox
reply to post by sulaw

 

hmm no laymens terms from me ,but it did spark a thought..

what if you could build a iron ring, supported along the equator ,right around the entire circumference of the earth,
a: could this be used as a power source ?
B: when it was fitted together and the circle was complete , what would happen if you removed all the supports simultaneously?

stilthinkingBox

edit on 16-12-2013 by funbox because: something about wolves , i forget what

SLAYER69
Ok, I've read this three times and can't seem to get me pea brain wrapped around this. I'm no physicist nor scientist. Maybe someone here that's a bit more Sci savvy can explain this to those of us with a thirst for knowledge but don't have the letters at the end of our names to fully comprehend the implications of such discovery in plain English.

What appears to be happening is charged particles released by the sun are being accelerated by interacting with the earth magnetic field.

I don't know why this has made it to the news as it is nothing new and nothing we didn't already know about.

Perhaps this has made it into the main stream because the average kid on the block knows about CERN and the LHC and the concept of high energy physics has entered the realm of pop culture.

Peace,

Korg.

Frequencies and vibrations.

funbox

hmm no laymens terms from me ,but it did spark a thought..

what if you could build a iron ring, supported along the equator ,right around the entire circumference of the earth,
a: could this be used as a power source ?
B: when it was fitted together and the circle was complete , what would happen if you removed all the supports simultaneously?

Well lets say the iron ring was mounted 100ft high, the circumference of earth at equator vs circumference of earth +pi*200 would be such a tiny difference that it wouldnt make a difference to stop the ring from collapsing to the earth diameter. The modulus of elasticity easily would allow the tiny tiny percentage of compression needed.

Get the steel moving at 38km/s though and now we're talking (curvature of the earth is roughly 12.7cm per km, distance of fall in 1 second is 4.9 meters at sea level.)

Just in case some folks were wondering, MarioOnTheFly has a working hypothetical in his avatar.