Intelligent Design is a self evident truth

infinitedreamer
also,if by intelligent design,where did the designer come from?infinite mate,gotta be.

Very good question.

Everybody should ask this question. God has given humans the power of intuition and discretion, due to which we reason. We question.

God remains hidden though He controls this world.

Humans remain in delusion that they control the world, though they do not.

This is the most enduring mystery of nature.

Has anybody seen God? How do we know God created the Universe and this World? Did species create naturally or somebody created them at some point in time? Why some species are lost?

This is all so mind-boggling that a human needs an IQ of 1000 perhaps to figure it out.

So we need to find a human of an IQ of 1000 and ask him/her. That would be a start.

Horus12
Evolution is a jigsaw without all the pieces.

Look at religious origins, its man made in its entirety. Add the fact we are dust like in the overall scale of the universe and our views, beliefs have no relevance in the scale of it.

In universal terms we are virus destroying a body that is the Earth. We are a product of our environment and when we leave, the universe will continue to do what it does.

edit on 20-12-2013 by Horus12 because: (no reason given)

Religion is physically wirtten by man. But is religion man made? There is no way in hell you can prove it.

You cant even prove that Your thoughts are even Your own. Or Your knowledge for that matter.

Everythng that you know and understand is not from Your mind. It is put there over time.

spy66

Horus12
Evolution is a jigsaw without all the pieces.

Look at religious origins, its man made in its entirety. Add the fact we are dust like in the overall scale of the universe and our views, beliefs have no relevance in the scale of it.

In universal terms we are virus destroying a body that is the Earth. We are a product of our environment and when we leave, the universe will continue to do what it does.

edit on 20-12-2013 by Horus12 because: (no reason given)

Religion is physically wirtten by man. But is religion man made? There is no way in hell you can prove it.

You cant even prove that Your thoughts are even Your own. Or Your knowledge for that matter.

Everythng that you know and understand is not from Your mind. It is put there over time.

When referring to God or the heavens why does everyone point upwards?

Horus12

spy66

Horus12
Evolution is a jigsaw without all the pieces.

Look at religious origins, its man made in its entirety. Add the fact we are dust like in the overall scale of the universe and our views, beliefs have no relevance in the scale of it.

In universal terms we are virus destroying a body that is the Earth. We are a product of our environment and when we leave, the universe will continue to do what it does.

edit on 20-12-2013 by Horus12 because: (no reason given)

Religion is physically wirtten by man. But is religion man made? There is no way in hell you can prove it.

You cant even prove that Your thoughts are even Your own. Or Your knowledge for that matter.

Everythng that you know and understand is not from Your mind. It is put there over time.

When referring to God or the heavens why does everyone point upwards?

edit on 20-12-2013 by Horus12 because: (no reason given)

Good question. People dont know what to look for. So why do they look up?

Religion is wirtten based on inspiration from within the human mind. Maybe that is the right Place to look.

Why would God have to come from the heavens to communicate With us. God has Direct link to Our mind.

reply to post by spy66


This is the reason I want to bring Veda into the discussion.

Veda answers the questions about life, about origin of life, about purpose of man etc.

However it is in an ancient language that very few understand today.

The few that understand Veda are those who have developed superior intellect ("medha sumedha" in Sanskrit) by "tapa" or penance.

They are the ones to go to, to understand the meaning of Vedic hymns and to understand the origin and purpose of life.

Mr Darwin will not help. He will confuse.

How do I know a person has superior intellect?

This person will be able to connect with you and read your thoughts, and see your past through his power.

Each person has a soul that has cycled through countless births and deaths.

Each soul has accumulated vast knowledge over time.

If a human can peep into his/her own past experiences, he/she can get the knowledge of origin and history of earth for example.

This is the purpose of "Samadhi", "Moksha" etc. - to gain boundless knowledge, boundless wisdom, and eternal happiness.

Some humans have gained this State, and found the history of the planet and of people through this inner vision.

The antiquities and fossils tell a story, but that story leaves a lot of blanks, and timelines always remain guesswork.

The right way is to use the power of soul, that is within each person.

spy66

Horus12

spy66

Horus12
Evolution is a jigsaw without all the pieces.

Look at religious origins, its man made in its entirety. Add the fact we are dust like in the overall scale of the universe and our views, beliefs have no relevance in the scale of it.

In universal terms we are virus destroying a body that is the Earth. We are a product of our environment and when we leave, the universe will continue to do what it does.

edit on 20-12-2013 by Horus12 because: (no reason given)

Religion is physically wirtten by man. But is religion man made? There is no way in hell you can prove it.

You cant even prove that Your thoughts are even Your own. Or Your knowledge for that matter.

Everythng that you know and understand is not from Your mind. It is put there over time.

When referring to God or the heavens why does everyone point upwards?

edit on 20-12-2013 by Horus12 because: (no reason given)

Good question. People dont know what to look for. So why do they look up?

Religion is wirtten based on inspiration from within the human mind. Maybe that is the right Place to look.

Why would God have to come from the heavens to communicate With us. God has Direct link to Our mind.

Its because of conditioning, sport stars, holy men, family etc..

Humans copy by nature, its how we learn. Holy men learned from the holy men before them, its passed on and it all points to the worship of the sky.

Which is the basis of all religions.

How one relegates all arguments provided by Science and provides as proof an opinion is staggering to me. This is not denying ignorance, this is ignorance at it's best. A book, an opinion, a thought, nothing like that can compare to Scientific arguments provided by our scientific community.

edmc^2
reply to post by neoholographic

 

Thanks Neo. You're quite right.

And knowing what we now about the world of DNA, it's absolutely mind boggling how evolutionist can't see the evidence of an ingenious design, the intelligence behind the structure of this molecule.

They readily accept the ridiculous: Design Without Intelligence!

Instruction without an Instructor.

That coded INSTRUCTIONS within each DNA molecule came about through undirected chance events that took place over the course of millions of years.


As if TIME was the causal force behind it all!

And they BELIEVE this!!!

Just amazing.

What is amazing is that you think that "it looks designed - therefore it is designed" is a valid argument.

GargIndia
Mr Darwin will not help. He will confuse.

Only if you look to Mr. Darwin for those answers.

The only thing he did was offer a theory on how different species came to be not about the origin or the meaning of life.

It's all so easy, god is time.

radix

edmc^2
reply to post by neoholographic

 

Thanks Neo. You're quite right.

And knowing what we now about the world of DNA, it's absolutely mind boggling how evolutionist can't see the evidence of an ingenious design, the intelligence behind the structure of this molecule.

They readily accept the ridiculous: Design Without Intelligence!

Instruction without an Instructor.

That coded INSTRUCTIONS within each DNA molecule came about through undirected chance events that took place over the course of millions of years.


As if TIME was the causal force behind it all!

And they BELIEVE this!!!

Just amazing.

What is amazing is that you think that "it looks designed - therefore it is designed" is a valid argument.

Well if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, its usually a duck.

I dont look at a computer and think it happened by random consequence.
Same when I look at the heavens and see the supremely complex clockwork of the universe and galaxies and star systems and weather systems and atoms.
It screams out "INTELLIGENT COMPLEXITY".
If you cannot see that, then maybe time may change your mind, maybe it wont. But it doesnt matter because life is just a rollercoaster ride anyway.

OneManArmy

Well if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, its usually a duck.

I dont look at a computer and think it happened by random consequence.
Same when I look at the heavens and see the supremely complex clockwork of the universe and galaxies and star systems and weather systems and atoms.
It screams out "INTELLIGENT COMPLEXITY".
If you cannot see that, then maybe time may change your mind, maybe it wont. But it doesnt matter because life is just a rollercoaster ride anyway.

I'll tell you what would change my mind: some positive evidence of a designer - something the ID proponents so far have been unable to provide. What we get instead is a long line of unprovable claims along the lines of "X can't be explained by an unguided process". I'm not holding my breath waiting for any such evidence to turn up, especially as the ID people seem decidedly uninterested in looking for any. The fact that no-one seems to be doing any ID science is of course rather damning for a movement that claims to be scientific.

radix

OneManArmy

Well if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, its usually a duck.

I dont look at a computer and think it happened by random consequence.
Same when I look at the heavens and see the supremely complex clockwork of the universe and galaxies and star systems and weather systems and atoms.
It screams out "INTELLIGENT COMPLEXITY".
If you cannot see that, then maybe time may change your mind, maybe it wont. But it doesnt matter because life is just a rollercoaster ride anyway.

I'll tell you what would change my mind: some positive evidence of a designer - something the ID proponents so far have been unable to provide. What we get instead is a long line of unprovable claims along the lines of "X can't be explained by an unguided process". I'm not holding my breath waiting for any such evidence to turn up, especially as the ID people seem decidedly uninterested in looking for any. The fact that no-one seems to be doing any ID science is of course rather damning for a movement that claims to be scientific.

Im not trying to "change your mind" just sharing "information". Make of it what you will.




And in the interest of balance of information, heres an interesting Stanford Lecture on the truth and myths of the golden ratio and Fibonacci sequence...

OneManArmy


Im not trying to "change your mind" just sharing "information". Make of it what you will.

I looked at the two first videos and they were a rather jumbled mess of random factoids and unsubstantiated claims with some straight-up woo and conspiracy theories thrown in for good measure (the Illuminati, really?). We also get the old chestnut "DNA is a code, codes are made by minds, therefore DNA was made by a mind" - delivered by Ken Ham, no less. I don't know about you but I don't think a guy who believes men walked with dinosaurs is the most reliable source of scientific information. To his credit, at least he doesn't pretend that he's not a creationist.

Looking at number three now...

Edit: OK, video three was certainly easier to follow as it was a lecture and not a hodge podge of clips from different sources. Interesting, good and engaging lecturer. Seemed to refute many of the claims in the two first videos.

I remember Richard Dawkins writing something about life forms being ''designoids'' - things that 'appear' designed but aren't actually designed. How about we turn this around and say ''life forms only appear to have evolved, but they actually didn't'' _________________________________________ Basically, the very valid idea that that life forms were designed has been ruled out and all research into the subject is aligned to fit the theory of evolution. _____________________________________________ Their argument against ID begins and ends with ''who is the designer?'', like as if the concept that functional design emerges from intelligence requires the name or identity of the designer.

sk0rpi0n
How about we turn this around and say ''life forms only appear to have evolved, but they actually didn't''

Which is why research into any theory that anyone proposes needs to be carried out but, as it has been pointed out earlier in the thread, the ID camp seems to be rather lax in that regard.

They just want to re-label the old argument about looking around at nature and seeing a designer's hand to looking at DNA and seeing a designer's hand. No actual proof just "common sense" like the one that made man believe that the earth is flat, that the sun rotates around the earth or any other "obvious" observation that made sense until further study proved otherwise.

sk0rpi0n
I remember Richard Dawkins writing something about life forms being ''designoids'' - things that 'appear' designed but aren't actually designed. How about we turn this around and say ''life forms only appear to have evolved, but they actually didn't'' _________________________________________ Basically, the very valid idea that that life forms were designed has been ruled out and all research into the subject is aligned to fit the theory of evolution. _____________________________________________ Their argument against ID begins and ends with ''who is the designer?'', like as if the concept that functional design emerges from intelligence requires the name or identity of the designer.

See, this is how I know ID isn't science. When a scientist suggests that the complexity of nature is caused by an intelligent designer and is asked who this designer is and how he operates, the correct answer is not "I don't know and I don't care". That's the opposite of science. The scientific approach is "I don't know - let's find out". The next step is to formulate a hypothesis from which can be derived some predictions that can be tested by observation and experimentation. The fact that after over 20 years, the ID movement (which is well-funded and equally well-motivated) hasn't even been able to come up with a working hypothesis blows a gigantic hole through its validity as a scientific proposition.

reply to post by radix

When a scientist suggests that the complexity of nature is caused by an intelligent designer and is asked who this designer is and how he operates, the correct answer is not "I don't know and I don't care". That's the opposite of science.

I didn't say "I don't care to know".

Dismissing ID because we don't know the identity of the designer is like junking the proposition that an architect designed the pyramid simply because we don't know his name and identity.

The scientific approach is "I don't know - let's find out".

Even with the lets find out attitude, Evolutionary scientists have only presented ideas on as to how it may have happened, but have been able to replicate the process.

For example, consider the question "how did sexual reproduction evolve?" All I have found on google searches are a number of what may have happened scenarios....none of which have been observed or replicated. If an unproven hypothesis can pass off as science, then the ToE loses credibility as legitimate science.

reply to post by daskakik

They just want to re-label the old argument about looking around at nature and seeing a designer's hand to looking at DNA and seeing a designer's hand. No actual proof

information :
what is conveyed or represented by a particular arrangement or sequence of things.

A designers hand is seen when one applies to lifeforms the principle that information points towards an outside intelligence. It goes without saying that what you recognize as information on a letter comes from a writer. But you know that information is separate from the ink its written with. The same applies to DNA, where the information is a separate entity from the DNA that holds it.