Widow Faces Eviction In Fla. City For ‘living Off The Grid’

openyourmind1262
If you check around most cities have ordinances about having running water. Most have no say about electricty, but not having running water is a health hazard.

"Health hazard"?

Growing up, the only running water I had was the kind you had to run and get, and bring back to the house. Once you brought it back to the house, it was no longer running water, it was standing water. I used to take showers under a waterfall back then. Yes, there are pictures. No, you can't see them. Somehow, I survived that "health hazard", and am still as healthy as a horse, years later. The last time I even went into a doctor's office (excluding having to go with prisoners - who, despite all the modern amenities of running water and whatnot, seemed at times to be disturbingly unhealthy) was in 1996, and then only for a physical related to getting a job. The last time before that was in 1985, to get some stitches that I could have done myself, but the boss insisted on medical involvement - they just did the same thing I was already doing when the boss walked up on me - removed the problem, threw a couple stitches, and wrapped gauze around it... but THEY charged him a couple hundred bucks for what I was already doing for free.

I dunno, man. I'm just not seeing the health hazard. It ain't killed me off yet.

Then again, cities ARE incredibly unhealthy places - with or without running water.

nenothtu

Wrabbit2000

The line gets drawn, in my opinion, when the rights of the creative one violate the rights of others. She no longer HAS the right to play Outback-Jane with primitive camping conditions ...when she's in a larger neighborhood of people that didn't sign up for living in a big KOA with better conditions.

Please specify: exactly which "rights of others" is she violating by living in her own home?

She has the right to live on her own property as she sees fit. "Others" have the right not to live there with her or visit if they don't like it. They have their own homes they can live in.

I can tell you how I live in my own home if you ask, but I cannot tell you how to live in YOURS.




Does my neighbor have the right to have 8 dogs barking 24/7?
Does he have the right to have floodlights on at 2 in the morning while he's working on his car?
Does he have the right to put an outhouse right next to my property line?
And I am talking about a house inside the city limits not in the middle of nowhere.
Yes a property owner has rights but so do his neighbors. I have the right to a good night sleep and not to have my property value driven into the ground by the junk yard next door.

Wrabbit2000
When you said off-the-grid I was thinking like that term usually comes to mean these days, she had her own way of supplying the necessary elements of modern life in a city. I was a bit surprised to see she figured she could live without the basics of modern code and regulation by just saying she didn't need running water, electricity, sewage or those other little things that make city life with neighbors.....tolerable.

Heck, there are rural areas all over the nation one can go live like it's 1899, but Coral Gables or MOST cities? Aren't it...

For what it's worth...my little city in Missouri said the same thing to everyone following the 07 Ice Storm. It really wasn't necessary, since no one here was trying to just 'do without' the bare basics of service and running water ...but it was made clear toward the end? No Power-No Water = No Residency. It's a public health and safety thing and it was here.

It's amazing some folks figure they can do it their way, and laws...regulations..codes..and decency toward those around them ( codes exist for a good reason ) just don't apply because they don't think it should. Well... She'll be fighting this one from a homeless shelter by the look of it, as I'm betting if we looked into city code enforcement for Coral Gables.....as she obviously didn't bother with?...we'll find extended camping inside a residence isn't acceptable.

WOW. I'm absolutely appalled at your arrogance and contempt for a fellow human being.

Also it's not Coral Cables, it's CAPE CORAL. I think this is the wrong website for you pal.

Snarl
reply to post by Kurius

 

You don't like the regulations and codes ... move away. Better yet, never move in.

She's a criminal element and she's gonna get what she's asking for.

Gee, thanks there comrade Stalin.

Nice to see you're onboard with the guilty til proven innocent bandwagon. Your avatar is fitting!

Hoosierdaddy71

Does my neighbor have the right to have 8 dogs barking 24/7?
Does he have the right to have floodlights on at 2 in the morning while he's working on his car?
Does he have the right to put an outhouse right next to my property line?
And I am talking about a house inside the city limits not in the middle of nowhere.
Yes a property owner has rights but so do his neighbors. I have the right to a good night sleep and not to have my property value driven into the ground by the junk yard next door.

I suppose that depends on whether or not your neighbor owns his property, and if not, what is specified in the lease.

It's a basic principle of law that your right to swing your arms ends where my nose begins. He can do what he wants on his own property, but he cannot do it on yours.

You have those same rights... and limitations.

You bought your house for a "property value", rather than as a home to live in?

What an odd notion! Isn't that what caused the "housing bubble" that so many people whined about when they engaged in it, and nearly crashed the entire economy for all of us?

And - if I'm understanding that angle right - you feel that gives you some intangible sort of "right" to dictate how your neighbor lives on HIS place? Do you also think that he has the same right to tell you how to live on YOURS?

Can I come to your house and rearrange your furniture, then? I don't like the way it's currently laid out.

Also - your exterior doors. Fix them. All exterior doors should be outswing, not inswing. Outswing is MUCH safer from a security standpoint. Harder to kick in. While we're talking security, you need your entire curtelage illuminated with floodlights all night, to deter vandals. See to that, would ya? What? You don't like MY code? Why should I like yours, then?

Just see to making those changes, and no kitten will be hurt. If you can tell me how to live inside my own boundaries, then I can do the same to you. Fair is fair. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If you don't want me running YOUR life, then it's better for you not to try and run MINE.

reply to post by nenothtu


So your saying that he can burn tires in his back yard or sex up his lady i plain view of my kids? Using your logic he can make meth to right?
Also most people consider their house more than a home it is also an investment. If you think your neighbors property doesn't effect the value of your home then you are nuts.

Hoosierdaddy71
reply to post by nenothtu

 

So your saying that he can burn tires in his back yard or sex up his lady i plain view of my kids?

Is he really doing those things? Perhaps you should take a more active interest in what your kids watch? I mean, is HE their parent, or YOU?

Personally, I hate the smell of a barbecue when it's fired up - but I don't go throwing water across the fence when my neighbors do it. That is THEIR yard, not mine. They can do what they damned well please in it.

Using your logic he can make meth to right?

Yes. I care nary a whit how other folks choose to end themselves.

Also most people consider their house more than a home it is also an investment. If you think your neighbors property doesn't effect the value of your home then you are nuts.

Then I am nuts.

The SOLE value of my property is the value I place on it - as a home for me to live in. Not what someone else says it's worth - they don't live there. If I want to invest (which I don't - what a ludicrous notion!), I'll play the stock market - not gamble with my home. What my neighbor chooses to do on his place has no effect on the value I place on mine.

reply to post by nenothtu


So your saying that it's ok to break the law as long as you do it on your own property? Correct me if that is not what your saying.

Now explain to me how your house is only a place to live. Your home is an investment even if you don't believe it. And your neighbors property does greatly effect the value of yours. If you live next to a nice lake your land is worth more than if you live beside a gas station. Same house, different location equals big difference in value.
That's easy to understand.

ChaoticOrder
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Well, No.. She obviously doesn't or she wouldn't be sitting on a legal eviction notice for an uninhabitable residence.

Ok, after a bit of research I found the original report by FOX 4 NEWS:

Living off the grid

The report contains a video in which she explains how she is able to live off the grid:

* kerosene lamps for lighting
* portable propane cooker
* solar powered camping shower which uses rain water
* battery powered electronics (recharged with solar)
* non-perishable food for long term storage without fridge
* rain water powered toilet which can indeed flush

edit on 16/12/2013 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)

Kinda sounds like a 'prepper'......... self sufficient

She should have never gone on the TV show to discuss her living situation.
It drew unwanted attention to her & now she's in a fix

She may have a long battle to fight, unless she decides to get her house up to inspection
A battle that she may not win

Hoosierdaddy71
reply to post by nenothtu

 

So your saying that it's ok to break the law as long as you do it on your own property? Correct me if that is not what your saying.

Pretty much, that's it. On my own property, I pretty much AM the law. Don't worry, though. It's an old mindset that is rapidly dwindling away as the collectivists take over the world. Nothing to concern yourself over - unless you happen to trespass before I die out.

Now explain to me how your house is only a place to live.

Umm.... because I LIVE there? Is this some sort of trick question?

Your home is an investment even if you don't believe it.

What does "investment" mean to you? It generally means sinking money into something with the intent to make MORE money when you sell it off. I intend to LIVE there, not sell it off... selling it off would be detrimental to my continued domicile there!

Are you sure you understand how "investment" works?

And your neighbors property does greatly effect the value of yours. If you live next to a nice lake your land is worth more than if you live beside a gas station. Same house, different location equals big difference in value.
That's easy to understand.

Again, it doesn't affect the value of MY property at all. The value I place on MY home doesn't depend on what some stranger thinks of it - because they don't live there! Unless I intend to sell it off to them, why on Earth should I care what they think the "value" of it is?

It's MINE, not THEIRS!

Do you regularly let strangers determine the value of of your own things, what they are worth to YOU, then? How much are your kids worth these days? Are they worth more if you polish them?

8675309jenny

Snarl
reply to post by Kurius

 

You don't like the regulations and codes ... move away. Better yet, never move in.

She's a criminal element and she's gonna get what she's asking for.

Gee, thanks there comrade Stalin.

Nice to see you're onboard with the guilty til proven innocent bandwagon. Your avatar is fitting!

LOL ... the irony of my avatar is lost on you.

Speronis was sentenced to 10 years of state probation that month after being found guilty of larceny $20,000 less than $100,000 by a judge in connection to the case. She was also ordered to pay $32,000 in restitution.

Do you not read all of the posts in-thread and follow the links of dedicated ATS members?

reply to post by nenothtu


You pay property tax. The amount you pay is based off a value assigned by a stranger. That stranger works for the city county or state. Like it or not that's how it works. You didn't decide what your homes value was when you bought it either. You decided what you were willing to pay. The seller had to agree. If it burns down the insurance company will tell you it's value not you.

Paying a mortgage vs paying rent builds equity and is therefore an investment.


And I'm curious. Is murder ok on your land?

Not to sound gross but what does she do with her feces? If she is truly off the grid then she isn't using the pipelines and if she is then she needs to pay for sewer. If she is just using rainwater to flush then she is kind of cheating the system. However if she is truly off the grid then as I said what is she doing with her feces?

I can see that becoming a health hazard but if she came up with a way to safely dispose of it like a compost toilet then I guess it's all good.

reply to post by 8675309jenny

WOW. I'm absolutely appalled at your arrogance and contempt for a fellow human being.

Also it's not Coral Cables, it's CAPE CORAL. I think this is the wrong website for you pal.

Cables was a typo, spent half my childhood in the Gables.

Snarl

8675309jenny

Snarl
reply to post by Kurius

 

You don't like the regulations and codes ... move away. Better yet, never move in.

She's a criminal element and she's gonna get what she's asking for.

Gee, thanks there comrade Stalin.

Nice to see you're onboard with the guilty til proven innocent bandwagon. Your avatar is fitting!

LOL ... the irony of my avatar is lost on you.

Speronis was sentenced to 10 years of state probation that month after being found guilty of larceny $20,000 less than $100,000 by a judge in connection to the case. She was also ordered to pay $32,000 in restitution.

Do you not read all of the posts in-thread and follow the links of dedicated ATS members?

Irony? No apparently the Irony is lost on YOU yourself, who mocks our country's current situation by putting the fascist pepper spray cop in place of Lady Liberty, and then goes on to treat another human with the same lack of decency when she is faced with the long third-member of the big-brother state.

If this is how you feel about your fellow American who lives in an OWNED, taxes-paid property, then YOU are PART OF THE PROBLEM.

As for the unrelated criminal case. Unrelated story is unrelated. Fathom that.

reply to post by 8675309jenny

Hoosierdaddy71
reply to post by nenothtu

 

You pay property tax. The amount you pay is based off a value assigned by a stranger. That stranger works for the city county or state. Like it or not that's how it works.

So you think I should hope for a higher value so that I can pay MORE property taxes?

You didn't decide what your homes value was when you bought it either. You decided what you were willing to pay. The seller had to agree.

Umm... that's sort of the idea of "value", isn't it? If the seller values it higher than I value it, then he keeps it. pretty simple. Therefore, I DID decide the value of my property - if I didn't value it at that level, then it wouldn't be my property, now would it? If he valued it more highly, then it still wouldn't be my property, now would it?

If it burns down the insurance company will tell you it's value not you.

What insurance?

Why on Earth would I play that lottery? It's always a losing proposition.

However, for the financially challenged, if I had insurance they would not set the value of the property, they would set the price they were willing to pay. "Value" and "price" are not the same thing.

Paying a mortgage vs paying rent builds equity and is therefore an investment.

I wouldn't know. I've never paid a mortgage. I did an amortization once, and discovered that the "price" I would end up paying would far exceed the "value" I placed on that property (it was way over double the asking price), so that deal died in the water. Your "equity" will NEVER reach the price you pay when dealing with mortgage sharks. It's a fools game. I just paid cash in hand instead.

What value does "equity" have to you if you never use it by gambling your home on it?

And I'm curious. Is murder ok on your land?

No. Killing is ok, but murder is not. "Murder" is defined as "an unjustifiable homicide", meaning that it has to be (1) the killing, (2) of a human being - "homicide" - (3) for no good reason - "unjustifiable". That is the legal definition of "murder", predicated on the Common Law, which it is in most states (Oran's Dictionary of Law). I don't even kill critters without a reason. If I kill a human, there is a DAMNED good reason.

reply to post by nenothtu




Where exactly did I say you should want to pay more taxes? Go look if you want but you will not find those words anywhere in my text. I did say that a complete stranger places a "monetary" value on your property and you pay taxes according to the assigned "monetary" value. You should receive a statement from the auditors office every year concerning this. You can also view a copy at your local courthouse. Despite whatever "value worth or price" you place on you home, that is the official value of your home. Nobody is asking you to sell it, nobody asked you to appraise it.

You say you don't have a mortgage, congrats! You have 100% equity in your home. Building equity in a home by using a mortgage is an investment. I never said it was a good or bad investment, only that it was an investment. Equity is a share of the monetary value of something and therefore has "worth value or price"

You also say you don't have insurance. I took that as homeowners insurance, you have the right to risk it, I don't care either way. But do you have auto insurance? State law requires it where I live, does your state? I can't get a license plate without proof of insurance. Driving without auto insurance is not a good idea in my opinion because to many people are driving without it. Did you notice how i didn't assume you dont use any auto insurance? I didn't read anything you didn't write. you should try doing that. My point in this thread was that this woman can live how she wants as long as she is not a detriment to her neighbors. That is one of the drawbacks of living in a neighborhood. She can move to a piece of secluded land and not have that burden. Everybody knows you dont fart in a crowded elevator, you find a spot with nobody around.

Hoosierdaddy71
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Where exactly did I say you should want to pay more taxes? Go look if you want but you will not find those words anywhere in my text. I did say that a complete stranger places a "monetary" value on your property and you pay taxes according to the assigned "monetary" value. You should receive a statement from the auditors office every year concerning this. You can also view a copy at your local courthouse. Despite whatever "value worth or price" you place on you home, that is the official value of your home. Nobody is asking you to sell it, nobody asked you to appraise it.

The whole discussion started because you seemed upset that your neighbor's actions affect what other people will pay you to abandon your home. You seemed to think that his actions would reduce the "value" of your home, therefore you wanted other folks to place a higher price on your home, so that you would make more money by walking off from it. Now you use the tax assessor to indicate that other folks "value" your home.

You want a higher "value" by other folks.

A higher "value" by the tax assessor means higher taxes.

If you want a higher value, you also want higher property taxes.

Elementary logical deduction, my dear Watson.

If that's the case, I want my neighbor to concrete his yard in and paint it green. I want him to paint his house candy-striped, place a forest of pink flamingos in his yard, and park wrecked cars on his roof. I want my property "values" to drop so low that the city/county.state owes ME money every year.

Yet you seem to think I should aim for other folks to place a HIGHER value on my home, which means you also think I should be hoping for HIGHER taxes on it.

You say you don't have a mortgage, congrats! You have 100% equity in your home. Building equity in a home by using a mortgage is an investment. I never said it was a good or bad investment, only that it was an investment. Equity is a share of the monetary value of something and therefore has "worth value or price"

Ah! I see! You are confusing "value" with "price". The "price" you would be willing to pay for MY home has no bearing on the "value" I place on it. "Building equity" (what an odd phrase to use regarding the place you choose to live!) Is only an "investment" if you intend to gamble your home. "Investment" implies expectation of a monetary return on said investment. No way to realize that without selling or gambling your home away. Otherwise, "equity" is nothing more than an abstract number someone else places on YOUR home, which is not "value".

Some folks seem to know the "price" of everything, and the "value" of nothing.

I was once offered five times the market price of the entire parcel for just a small part of it. it amounted to well over 150 times the market price for the part he wanted. I turned it down cold. That fellow knew the market price, alright, but he had nary a clue as to the value.

You also say you don't have insurance. I took that as homeowners insurance, you have the right to risk it, I don't care either way.

I have NO insurance. Of ANY kind. I don't play that ponzi scheme to enrich other folks.

But do you have auto insurance?

No.

State law requires it where I live, does your state?

They only require it if I have a car, and put that car on the road. I have no car, nor do I want or need one.

I can't get a license plate without proof of insurance. Driving without auto insurance is not a good idea in my opinion because to many people are driving without it. Did you notice how i didn't assume you dont use any auto insurance?

Nevertheless, it would have been a valid assumption.

I didn't read anything you didn't write. you should try doing that. My point in this thread was that this woman can live how she wants as long as she is not a detriment to her neighbors. That is one of the drawbacks of living in a neighborhood. She can move to a piece of secluded land and not have that burden. Everybody knows you dont fart in a crowded elevator, you find a spot with nobody around.

If she were a "detriment" to her neighbors, it seems that THEY would have complained, rather than a news broadcast concerning her living off the grid being what alerted the authorities that she was in dire need of being cracked down on. If her property were some sort of eyesore, inspectors would have noticed without a news broadcast, and would have acted accordingly... because THAT would drop the tax assessment, in turn dropping their bottom line, and we all know politicians love nothing more than money, with power coming in a close second.

Power to force more money out of folks is golden to politicians, and they'll exercise it at every turn. If there had been any external indications that they could increase the assessment on that property by condemning it, they would have jumped on that like a duck on a june bug.