Why I Think God Warned us About Conservatives and Capitalism.

reply to post by Skyfloating


But is it heading the wrong way? Liberty is being traded for security, welfare for insurance, the world is becoming privatised and whilst I think this is a neccesary tool (privatisation) it has gone too far, as shown by the Nestle CEO who is pushing to privatise water, I don't think god wanted a price tag on all of His creations.

Capitalism has bred an (inevitable) form of leaders and big business owners who have to keep up with the uncapped growth that is needed to beat the profit margin every year, this means that they need to find new ways to turn a profit, not all are good for the little guys at the bottom. This is something that is only getting worse as we see tent cities expand, middle class people becoming homeless and the rich and poor divide ever growing wider. Like I said, Captialism favors the greedy and Jesus (& God) warned about the greedy, all the while "good christians" are the ones pushing it.

I wonder if these old testament structures for Capitalism ever thought:
a) It would get into the hands of corrupted men and women.
b) It would still be relevant when the world population goes from 1 million to 7 billion.

wildtimes
reply to post by SisyphusRide

 

.. a conservative is a conservationist.

OMG!!! Seriously?

Um, no. In fact I was going to bring that up in my last reply to you. Sorry, but the "conservatives" are the ones pillaging this planet for their own gain.

CONSERVATIONISTS are we, the much-despised (by conservatives) people who want our lands, oceans, flora and fauna, atmosphere, and nature in general to be cherished and protected, NOT RIPPED APART BY GREEDY, INSENSITIVE dolts. We care about the Earth and Nature and Human suffering.

Good god you are ignorant of so many things!!
Your membership here, sadly, doesn't seem to be doing much for you on that account.

I am a conservative. I've never ran across anyone farther to the right than I am. I am just to the right of Attila the Hun. I am so far to the right that I wrap back around to the left.

Yet I am ALSO a conservationist. I have a preserve that is exactly as it was 300 years ago when the first white people ever laid eyes on it.

I don't despise conservationists. I DO despise wannabe conservationists like "Greenpeace", who have nary a clue what conservation is about or entails. They could give a rat's ass about nature or conserving it - they just want the fame and the name.

I don't have the fame or the name... but I DO have a section of God's green Earth that is exactly as it has always been.

"Conservation" is the very root of "conservative".

wildtimes

TheWrightWing is the one who doesn't want to supply condoms or 'planned parenthood' or decent education. You're barking up the wrong tree.

Once upon a time, such problems were solved by supplying lessons in personal responsibility.

"You bring a young-un into this world, YOU raise it and feed it and take care of it. it's yours to handle. If you don't want to do that, get a job and buy a condom, or learn to keep it in your pants."

Nowadays, such problems are solved by rewarding them with monetary gain at other people's expense.

iRoyalty
reply to post by TheWrightWing

 

You still haven't answered it, ignore Jesus and left wing politics! Not talking about that...

Would Jesus approve of the current system where rich tax dodgers go unpunished and get pay rises while the rest of us get paid the same wage whilst we watch prices rise which is a result of the form of capitalism we have been experiencing. We have created a system that makes big companies and bank "too big to fail", the system has spread greed and the greedy look after each other. What would Jesus have to say about it??

He would say "whose image is on this denarius, and whose inscription? Therefore, render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God that which is his."

He was pretty apolitical.

He had a nasty habit of separating the spiritual from the secular, letting the blind lead the blind, and letting the dead bury their own dead.

iRoyalty
reply to post by SisyphusRide

 

I asked for proof... Come on guys... I've seen both of your posts before and usually you post some substance and sourcing! You are both still dodging my question!! I am going to ask it one more time and then I'm going to give up posting on here...

Would Jesus approve of this system that rewards the greedy? Yes or No and Why?

Immaterial. BOTH systems as they currently stand support the greedy - just different sets of "the greedy".

iRoyalty
reply to post by TheWrightWing

 

Yes but every story in the bible has a purpose. It is a book to teach on morals, they didn't put that story in there just because that was what was right for that one dude. No, everything in the bible is purposefully put there.

Now he was a holy man and a good man, all he had was a lot of wealth and possessions. Jesus said all he needed to gain salvation was to give these up and follow him.

That was because, in his case, those possessions stood between him and God, they insulated him from God, because he placed more value on them than he did God, and Jesus knew that. it's not very difficult to suss out in many cases.

It wasn't because he HAD possessions, it was because those possessions were prioritized over God, which is not always the case. it's not money that is the root of all evil, it's the LOVE of money that is the root of all evil.

Once again, Jesus did NOT whip out a sword and force the man to give it up - he allowed the man to make his own decision, because it was NOT about feeding the masses, it was about that gentleman's own soul, what was standing between him and God... therefore, his decision to make.

reply to post by MamaJ


I answered the OP btw

trust me I am used to dealing with the "topic title" attack...

reply to post by Skyfloating


Capitalism is progress, idle hands do the devils work... who knows how is was in my nation before the revolutionary war? but this is not a nation of only Christians even though the United States was founded on Christian principals.

Everyone is welcome here as long as they are peaceful... if someone fails at capitalism (if that's what we want to call it) then their parents should have paved the way for them I think?

TheWrightWing

MamaJ
reply to post by TheWrightWing

 

If Jesus asked his followers to give up everything they have and or owned and walk with him

No, he did not. He suggested that to an individual he had a conversation with.

Try re-reading that verse once again.

Try- re- reading- the- entire- Bible. Re- Read - it- again- and -again.

Jesus throughout the NT encouraged his followers ( plural = more than one) to put the kingdom before anything. Before familes, before jobs, etc., and to service the ways of peace and love within their heart.

If a job gets in the way of servicing others then the follower was encouraged to leave it behind.

Even in Matthew Jesus asks of his disciples to leave the boat and follow him. The reason why Jesus asks them to leave all behind and follow him is because... It's a metaphor of how to live. In order to have the kingdom of God within we must follow his ways daily. We leave behind what does not service others and this way we can be fishers of men.

reply to post by MamaJ


I agree with you for the most part here. the only place I get stuck is "leaving behind what does not serve others". The objective, as I understand it, is to serve God and grow closer to God. Serving others is ancillary, peripheral, not the main target, with service effort concentrated on Subjects of the Kingdom - God's People. All the rest are on their own.

Now that doesn't preclude helping other folks out on a case by case basis, whether you think the are subject to the Kingdom or not, because we just don't know for sure - only God knows for certain who are "his own". I.E. "the shepherd knows his sheep, and they know his voice". We can be fairly sure that one over there with the fangs is NOT a sheep, whether it's dressed in wool or not, but only God knows for certain. Then there are sheep who just don't yet KNOW they are sheep, but they belong to God all the same, and need to be brought in. We don't know who THEY are for sure, either, so it's best to cast a wide net. if they're caught, they are, if not, they go on their merry way unharmed and unmolested. It's not fitting to go chasing after them and preaching at them if they are determined to join the wolf pack instead.

Now, even though I believe the concentration of effort is supposed to be service to the Kingdom, it's also true that a tree is known by it's fruits - apple trees don't produce pine cones - and that "faith" without "works" is dead... it no longer produces anything at all.

SO - I believe the main responsibility is to God, but that will manifest outwardly by serving others - the sheep first, the "maybes" next, and whatever spare crumbs fall, they fall where they will, for any old bird to snatch up.

Can't do that by involving government, and letting them decide how the crumbs get distributed. If you serve God, you WILL serve others, but not at the expense of your own.

8 But if any provide not for his own, and especially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith and is worse than an infidel.

- 1 Timothy, 5:8

It's not possible to serve your own when you give all of your resources to the government (or to a church for that matter) to redistribute as THEY see fit.

Serving others is not the target, serving God is. Serving others is a by-product, the outgrowth of a relationship to God, and like baptism, "the answer of a good conscience towards God". It's one of the fruits by which the tree is known, and the roots of it are never seen, but a vital part of the whole.

nenothtu

iRoyalty
reply to post by TheWrightWing

 

You still haven't answered it, ignore Jesus and left wing politics! Not talking about that...

Would Jesus approve of the current system where rich tax dodgers go unpunished and get pay rises while the rest of us get paid the same wage whilst we watch prices rise which is a result of the form of capitalism we have been experiencing. We have created a system that makes big companies and bank "too big to fail", the system has spread greed and the greedy look after each other. What would Jesus have to say about it??

He would say "whose image is on this denarius, and whose inscription? Therefore, render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God that which is his."

He was pretty apolitical.

He had a nasty habit of separating the spiritual from the secular, letting the blind lead the blind, and letting the dead bury their own dead.

edit on 2013/12/16 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)

Fair enough, the point about "render unto Caeser, that which is Caesers" is a good one, but Jesus and the Romans most certainly weren't buddies. Jesus was hunted and percecuted and my point was that Capitalism is just as bad if not worse for the cultivation of greed. I know Jesus didn't get directly involved in politics, but all these politicians who use the "I'm a good Christian" gag to get votes, I'm convinced they are being the worst Christians ever, pushing for bailouts for rich banks, taking more and more money from the poor etc etc

If you can tell me HOW the current system of Capitalism in America is something that would be approved of according to the bible then I will not have wasted my time for the past two days since I've given lots of reason why I think Jesus wouldn't approve and so far everyone (except the mod) has just tried to say how my opinion is wrong without saying why, except that I'm ignorant.

iRoyalty

Fair enough, the point about "render unto Caeser, that which is Caesers" is a good one, but Jesus and the Romans most certainly weren't buddies. Jesus was hunted and percecuted and my point was that Capitalism is just as bad if not worse for the cultivation of greed. I know Jesus didn't get directly involved in politics, but all these politicians who use the "I'm a good Christian" gag to get votes, I'm convinced they are being the worst Christians ever, pushing for bailouts for rich banks, taking more and more money from the poor etc etc

"Worst Christians ever"? That presupposes that they are Christians to begin with. I think using God to gain votes says otherwise of them, long before they actually do ANY misdeeds.

If you can tell me HOW the current system of Capitalism in America is something that would be approved of according to the bible then I will not have wasted my time for the past two days

since I've given lots of reason why I think Jesus wouldn't approve and so far everyone (except the mod) has just tried to say how my opinion is wrong without saying why, except that I'm ignorant.

edit on 18-12-2013 by iRoyalty because: (no reason given)

I can't, because I don't believe it is. I don't believe any form of Capitalism is approved of any more than any form of socialism is. I don't think God much cares about politics at all - he cares about spiritual things, because temporal ones are transitory. That was the whole idea behind the quote. That is just one of the areas that the US Constitution and the Bible seem to agree upon - the principle of separating Church and State. The State is, in theory, not allowed to tell you what your religion is, and God doesn't tell you what your politics are.

Some things you just have to figure out for yourself, and work out to your own satisfaction.

God will allow you to do that. The State appears to have a bit of trouble in that area. People have a LOT of trouble in that area, blaming the good they do as well as the bad they do on God, and trying to drag God through the mud of politics, using God as the excuse for one human ideology or another.

reply to post by nenothtu

I agree with you for the most part here. the only place I get stuck is "leaving behind what does not serve others".

When you serve others you in turn serve "God". Ever wonder why the majority of the commandments is in relation to how we treat others?

If God is within as Jesus says then the above makes sense.

Jesus helped and forgave those that were against him for a reason. His fruits never changed.

I understand your way of thinking, I'm just seeing if you can understand mine.

TheWrightWing

MamaJ
reply to post by TheWrightWing

 

If Jesus asked his followers to give up everything they have and or owned and walk with him

No, he did not. He suggested that to an individual he had a conversation with.

Try re-reading that verse once again.

Try reading the entire Bible and then you will understand. I am not referring to one verse I am referring to many.

iRoyalty

TheWrightWing
Left wing ideology demands property be removed from any who they designate as wealthy by force and penalty of law for the greater good and to build a government big enough and powerful enough to impose that will.

Can you source this please? I've never heard of this before.

karl marx

MamaJ
Try reading the entire Bible and then you will understand. I am not referring to one verse I am referring to many.

all they need is the New Testament... the reality is creates is so beautiful who would be opposed to it?

I am grateful there are a majority with it on their mind, it's a living book and we're creating as we go along.

All one would probably need is just an account by one of the apostles imo to get what it's saying... and every time you hear someone suggesting to another to "read the whole bible" "from cover to cover" they are usually a part of the opposition.

reply to post by nenothtu


No doubt he wouldn't agree too much with either side of the political coin, I just wish the republicans and democrats stopped posing. Like I said I'm not a Christian, it just annoys me that they use it to pull in the blind Christians who can't see that what these men are perpetrating is wrong, even according to the bible (harbouring riches and cultivating greed). Whenever I think how a Christian should act is, do as Jesus did, it's similar in Buddhism, not sure how to act/re-act, what would the Buddha have done?

reply to post by iRoyalty


the democrats are all about hate... it's a lack of education and the politicians obviously have a larger majority of them suckered right now wouldn't you say?

republican politicians do not use religion to sucker people to their causes... we all grow up (most of us) and listen then make decisions based on our own lives.

republicans have structure, we've worked for what we own... most hard workers (who build reality) and keep it chugging along are republican minded.

reality is in full swing... the opposition can do nothing but damage because the way the system is setup... it's written on all the buildings for our sake!

the nation is more divided than it has been since the civil rights era... we've been beyond that some time now.

reply to post by SisyphusRide

republican politicians do not use religion to sucker people to their causes...

LOLOLOLOL!!!!!
HILARIOUS!!!

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