US's Nuland treating Ukrainian protesters to cookies on Maidan, She tries to Bribe Police

reply to post by NavyDoc


And in WW2 they were quite comfortable with the German Nazis in fact they nearly killed my Grand Grandfather.

Agent_USA_Supporter
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

And in WW2 they were quite comfortable with the German Nazis in fact they nearly killed my Grand Grandfather.

After Stalin starved and tortured millions to death, they saw anyone NOT Stalin as a savior initially. The Nazis were brutal then the Soviets came back through and brutalized them again.

NavyDoc
Agreed. Ukrainians still remember the genocide inflicted upon them by the Soviets.

You DO understand that the Ukraine was also part of the Soviet Union, which would make the Ukrainians Soviets too...

IamTheManWithThePlan

NavyDoc
Agreed. Ukrainians still remember the genocide inflicted upon them by the Soviets.

You DO understand that the Ukraine was also part of the Soviet Union, which would make the Ukrainians Soviets too...

Of course, but that still does not change the fact that the Soviets and Stalin starved them to death. I hope YOU understand that the Soviet Union was largely a Moscow-centered Russian hegemony and that the creation of the communist state was in Russia. Thus, the Ukrainians have every reason to dislike Russian control. Although other states were "members" of he Soviet Union, they were considered inferior and expendable by the elite in Moscow.

Here is a little video that may help.

Of course Ukraine wants to get away from Russia they have been trying for a century. Russian threats are all that ever stops it. And while the US is not in the EU it does want the Russians and the Ukraine Gov to know it is watching. For Russia losing Ukraine is like the final nail in the coffin. Outside of Armenia and Belarus none of the old Soviet Unions wants to be Russias tool any longer. And honestly who can blame them.

MrSpad
Of course Ukraine wants to get away from Russia they have been trying for a century. Russian threats are all that ever stops it. And while the US is not in the EU it does want the Russians and the Ukraine Gov to know it is watching. For Russia losing Ukraine is like the final nail in the coffin. Outside of Armenia and Belarus none of the old Soviet Unions wants to be Russias tool any longer. And honestly who can blame them.

So the EU threatening the Ukrainian NGO protests is not blackmailing at all or the fact that there are 52 NGO in Ukraine working to organize the protests.

For Russia losing Ukraine is like the final nail in the coffin.

That wont occur America already lost Libya and Syria and that was the final nail in the coffin. I can see why some of you are upset about it.

Lets all Deny Ignorance here.

The same people behind the protests in Ukraine are the same ones that started the "OTPOR" Youth Movement in Serbia and they helped destroy Libya, Syria and Egypt.

If you pay for - there is a revolution in any part of the world Paid revolution have begun in Serbia. Is it the same business today in Ukraine for the second time?

NED lists 52 NGOs are in Ukraine currently.
National Endowment for Democracy 52 NGOs in Kiev
Some are linked with connections towards McCain and other Senators. While meanwhile Anti EU protests are forgotten even here.

NavyDoc

IamTheManWithThePlan

NavyDoc
Agreed. Ukrainians still remember the genocide inflicted upon them by the Soviets.

You DO understand that the Ukraine was also part of the Soviet Union, which would make the Ukrainians Soviets too...

Of course, but that still does not change the fact that the Soviets and Stalin starved them to death. I hope YOU understand that the Soviet Union was largely a Moscow-centered Russian hegemony and that the creation of the communist state was in Russia.

That doesn't make sense since Stalin himself wasn't Russian, but Georgian, and to the best of my knowledge the number of ethnic Russians killed in his 'purges' outnumbers (by far) any other ethnicity in the USSR.

NavyDocThus, the Ukrainians have every reason to dislike Russian control. Although other states were "members" of he Soviet Union, they were considered inferior and expendable by the elite in Moscow.

By that rationale, the Russians also have every reason to dislike what you call 'Russian control' (which was truly Soviet) since they were the ones to pay the most under the regime...which according to you favored them??!


NVM, back on topic:

I find it disgusting that the Administration is taking sides in a sovereign country again. What happens in the Ukraine should be decided by the Ukrainians themselves, not by outsiders. Though I doubt that is what will happen in the end...
But it's both sad and educational to see how the masses can be manipulated.

Agent_USA_Supporter

MrSpad
Of course Ukraine wants to get away from Russia they have been trying for a century. Russian threats are all that ever stops it. And while the US is not in the EU it does want the Russians and the Ukraine Gov to know it is watching. For Russia losing Ukraine is like the final nail in the coffin. Outside of Armenia and Belarus none of the old Soviet Unions wants to be Russias tool any longer. And honestly who can blame them.

So the EU threatening the Ukrainian NGO protests is not blackmailing at all or the fact that there are 52 NGO in Ukraine working to organize the protests.

For Russia losing Ukraine is like the final nail in the coffin.

That wont occur America already lost Libya and Syria and that was the final nail in the coffin. I can see why some of you are upset about it.

I having a hard time following you. The people protesting are pro EU, as on more than on occasion Ukraine has tried to move to the West but, been back downed by the Russians cutting off gas, closing borders to trade etc. The people in the Ukraine have wanted this move for a very long time, do not try and sell it as NGOs doing it, that would be a failure to recognize that Ukraine has been trying to escape Russia since the fall of the Russian Empire.

For the EU Ukraine would be a nice pick up once its economy gets moving. For the Ukraine the EU would be nice chance to expand its economy and trade. For NATO Ukraine does not offer much, it would need a complete overhall of its armed forces and it suffers from corruption as well although not as bad as Russia itself. It does hold a very strategic position though.

For Russia Ukraine is the last line. Russia lost all of Eastern Europe with exception of Serbia whom it keeps putting pressure on as it flirts with the EU and NATO. As the rest of its former republics began getting close with West or China or playing all sides it has found only Belarus as loyal. Armenia is only so long as they need Russian backing. Russia influence over Sweden and Finland has also collapse as they have become defacto NATO members. Everywhere the EU and NATO are absorbing states Russia once considered its own sphere of influence.

Russia has a few friends left but, most of them are failing states. Its influence in South and Central America reduced to failing states like Cuba and Venezuala. Russia once a player in Africa and Asia has been completly swept from those areas by the West and China. In the Middle East Syria is mired in a 4 way civil war that may never end, however Russia is making some money selling weapons to all sides. While Iran faced with a weakened Russia who can not and will not defend now making its move to the West.

In its south Russia faces an insurgency. In the East a growing China who is a growing threat it can not counter. In the West the combined might of the US/NATO/EU has outstripped Russia in every way. If it loses Ukraine then is does not have much left. Unless Russia decides to join the EU/NATO it is going to finds itself isolated and alone while the China steals its arms markets, and the West all its former states.

reply to post by MrSpad


I am not sure if your being serious but i do know you cant be taken serious after that post
No offense meant mods but i am laughing at the post.

Unless Russia decides to join the EU/NATO it is going to finds itself isolated and alone while the China steals its arms markets

Unless Russia decides on joining EU/NATO its going to find itself isolated and alone? are you John McCain?

For the EU Ukraine would be a nice pick up once its economy gets moving. For the Ukraine the EU would be nice chance to expand its economy and trade. For NATO Ukraine does not offer much, it would need a complete overhall of its armed forces and it suffers from corruption as well although not as bad as Russia itself. It does hold a very strategic position though.

Ah yes once Ukraine joins the EU we can expect jumping rabbits and flowers all around right? or are you forgetting the first thing EU would do to Ukraine is throw at them is your beloved austerity

Russia has a few friends left but, most of them are failing states. Its influence in South and Central America reduced to failing states like Cuba and Venezuala. Russia once a player in Africa and Asia has been completly swept from those areas by the West and China. In the Middle East Syria is mired in a 4 way civil war that may never end, however Russia is making some money selling weapons to all sides. While Iran faced with a weakened Russia who can not and will not defend now making its move to the West.

MrSpad tell me again whom was it that prevented Obama and America from killing itself by starting the intervention in Syria? was it isolated Russia?

In its south Russia faces an insurgency

Ah yes the Islamist insurgency which you forget to mention which insurgency, from the south of Russia these are the same fighters that are going over in Syria.

Russia has a few friends left but, most of them are failing states. Its influence in South and Central America reduced to failing states like Cuba and Venezuala.

According to your world view Russia is alone, Russia lost Syria failing states are Cuba and Venezuala. China yet you completely ignore the failing and collapsing European Union.

Thats rather Ironic.

reply to post by MrSpad

The people in the Ukraine have wanted this move for a very long time, do not try and sell it as NGOs doing it,

Are you that blinded? there are 52 NGOs working with the far left and far right opposition parties including those that follow a Neo Nazism ideology.

If your not following me why didn't you even checked the links for which i had posted? or the fact the opposition parties are and have being trained by the outside?

These are the same forces that brought us the Egyptian protests. Meanwhile In Italy all this week people were protesting agaisnt the austerity and the EU.

Why weren't the Italian protests as important? because they are anti EU and the EU government doesn't want itself to see that its failing apart thats why.

IamTheManWithThePlan

NavyDoc

IamTheManWithThePlan

NavyDoc
Agreed. Ukrainians still remember the genocide inflicted upon them by the Soviets.

You DO understand that the Ukraine was also part of the Soviet Union, which would make the Ukrainians Soviets too...

Of course, but that still does not change the fact that the Soviets and Stalin starved them to death. I hope YOU understand that the Soviet Union was largely a Moscow-centered Russian hegemony and that the creation of the communist state was in Russia.

That doesn't make sense since Stalin himself wasn't Russian, but Georgian, and to the best of my knowledge the number of ethnic Russians killed in his 'purges' outnumbers (by far) any other ethnicity in the USSR.

NavyDocThus, the Ukrainians have every reason to dislike Russian control. Although other states were "members" of he Soviet Union, they were considered inferior and expendable by the elite in Moscow.

By that rationale, the Russians also have every reason to dislike what you call 'Russian control' (which was truly Soviet) since they were the ones to pay the most under the regime...which according to you favored them??!


NVM, back on topic:

I find it disgusting that the Administration is taking sides in a sovereign country again. What happens in the Ukraine should be decided by the Ukrainians themselves, not by outsiders. Though I doubt that is what will happen in the end...
But it's both sad and educational to see how the masses can be manipulated.

Notice Stalin changed his name from his Georgian ethnic name of Dzhugashvili just because of this reason? But you didn't know that did you? Of course the SOviets harmed large numbers of ethnic Russians, however, the party elite were still by and large Russians and they by and large tended to give the satellite states the worst of the worst.

I see you have some difficulties with history. The fact is that many of these regions have been getting shafted by Russians (the big guy in the area) for hundreds of years--even before the rise of the Soviet Union. Dislike goes very deep in these cultures and they have every reason to mistrust Russia and want independence from Russia. As to why you can't understand this simple fact, I don't know.