Pink Floyd co-founder Waters draws parallels between Israel, Nazi Germany

Wow. I really like Pink Floyd but I've never liked his views on the Middle East.

Well, I clicked on this thread for a couple of reasons...
1. I like the Floyd
2. I like Roger, although he is both the ugliest and most self centred musician I can maybe think of right now, the way he treated Rick Wright was appalling.

Anyhow, I am always interested to know why "rock stars" and the like, you know, Bono, Geldof etc think they can diversify into politics and such.
After reading three pages of this thread I must say I am disappointed. Not slapping down the discussion, just misinterpreted the thread title.

For what it's worth, Rogers' lyrics have been political almost from day one, certainly from DSOM onwards. In any interview I have seen though it comes from a personal experience perspective as opposed to a world wide concern.
Maybe he has become more grown up as he has aged.

Animals album, Sheep:
Harmlessly passing your time in the grassland away
Only dimly aware of a certain unease in the air
You better watch out
There may be dogs about
I've looked over Jordan and I have seen
Things are not what they seem.

That was 1977.

reply to post by TheWrightWing

Israel occupies land it won fair and square when war was declared on them.

War was declared on "them" because they showed up where they didn't belong.
If they got "roughed up" in Europe, at the hands of Europeans.... then they should have tried to win and occupy lands in Europe, not the Middle East.. at the cost of Middle Easterners.

Long story short, if God gave that land in the Middle East to "them", he also gave North America and Europe to the other guys.

TheWrightWing

I hate to repeat this phrase but, there is a difference between the Jews and the Zionists.

I don't hate reminding folks: Zionists are Jews.

Zionist may all be Jews - But - not all Jews are zionists.

Zionists are Jews is not commutative and to imply such is either deception or ignorance.

The word "legal" means nothing more than that the activity is allowed by some "law" or that it is not in violation of some "law". Israel feigns cooperation in peace negotiations while relentlessly pursuing its program of bulldozing and resettling the Palestinians into oblivion. Ignore the rhetoric and look at what Israel has done and continues to do. What Israel does to the Palestinians is "legal" because Israel passes laws declaring it to be legal. Then it becomes "legal" under Israeli law. But it is not moral or just, only "legal" in the sense that it has been declared so by some recognized "authority", like the thing the Nazis did in removing Germany's Jewish citizens from their homes and businesses in the Fatherland to internment camps, or what the US did in its internment of American citizens of Japanese descent during WWII.

In 10 to 20 years all of Palestine will be Israel because that's clearly the agenda based on what Israel does which puts the lie to what it says. And all the other players in he "peace negotiations" know it but just play along in the game lacking the balls to do anything about it.

Israel: Bringing machine guns to knife fights since 1948.

reply to post by TheWrightWing


Look, Israel exists. For better or for worse. I am okay with that. I know why Israel retains the lands from the wars as well. But are you blind to the fact that the Israeli government over reaches in the name of National security all of the time. Zionists may be defined as Jews to you but to most of us it's a fundamentalist movement that is hell bent on doing whatever it can for it's own self interests even at the costs of others. Do your home work on why Palestine and other Arab Nations waged war on Israel. Learn about what the Zionists militants did during the purge of Palestinians when they began occupation of the land once the UN sanctioned the lands and the British Mandate was enforced.

Jews are amazing people. Survivors most of all but many are brilliant, artistic contributors to the world. JEWS are a noble people for how they succeed. Zionism has perverted the worlds view of JEWS. The Israeli government perpetuates discourse in the Middle East for it's own self interests and claims moral grounds and screams "antisemitism" when people hold them accountable.

Israel as a Nation is just in defending itself but many of it's actions are questionable in the international community. That's just a fact. I don't blame Israel one bit for not giving up an inch of it's security. But it does nothing to improve the situation for others suffering around them at all. It makes it worse.

I would love to see Hamas completely destroyed. No more rockets being fired into Israel and it's people not fearing of constant terrorist attacks or threats. But Hamas exists as a matter of cause and effect. When will Israel take responsibility for it's misdeeds and poor decisions? When will it show even a smidgen of acceptable compromise?

It saddens me to see Israeli citizens lumped into this mess because it has a government and political movement that no loner serves it's true intentions. The fact that JEWS know first hand what it is to be victims of the exact thing their Government is slowly but surely doing to there neighbors is unacceptable to me.

I can tell you this much for sure. I love Israel as a Nation of people. I would fight to defend it and I am a Irish American. But I would not fight for it because of the government and Zionism. I would fight for it's people's survival.

The Israeli government needs to wake up and change it's course of direction towards it's neighbors if ever there is to be viable security and peace in the region of even the most remote chance.

sk0rpi0n
War was declared on "them" because they showed up where they didn't belong.
If they got "roughed up" in Europe, at the hands of Europeans.... then they should have tried to win and occupy lands in Europe, not the Middle East.. at the cost of Middle Easterners.

Long story short, if God gave that land in the Middle East to "them", he also gave North America and Europe to the other guys.

Those gosh darn Jews! Always showing up where they don't belong!

Where have I heard that before?

Jews are middle easterners, professor. Didn't you know that?

How soon until the scope of "Where Jews don't belong" encompasses the planet Earth?

Israel = Intolerance

rupertg
Israel: Bringing machine guns to knife fights since 1948.

Muslims: strapping bombs to children since 1948

Flint2011
reply to post by TheWrightWing

 

Look, Israel exists. For better or for worse. I am okay with that. I know why Israel retains the lands from the wars as well. But are you blind to the fact that the Israeli government over reaches in the name of National security all of the time. Zionists may be defined as Jews to you but to most of us it's a fundamentalist movement that is hell bent on doing whatever it can for it's own self interests even at the costs of others. Do your home work on why Palestine and other Arab Nations waged war on Israel. Learn about what the Zionists militants did during the purge of Palestinians when they began occupation of the land once the UN sanctioned the lands and the British Mandate was enforced.

Jews are amazing people. Survivors most of all but many are brilliant, artistic contributors to the world. JEWS are a noble people for how they succeed. Zionism has perverted the worlds view of JEWS. The Israeli government perpetuates discourse in the Middle East for it's own self interests and claims moral grounds and screams "antisemitism" when people hold them accountable.

Israel as a Nation is just in defending itself but many of it's actions are questionable in the international community. That's just a fact. I don't blame Israel one bit for not giving up an inch of it's security. But it does nothing to improve the situation for others suffering around them at all. It makes it worse.

I would love to see Hamas completely destroyed. No more rockets being fired into Israel and it's people not fearing of constant terrorist attacks or threats. But Hamas exists as a matter of cause and effect. When will Israel take responsibility for it's misdeeds and poor decisions? When will it show even a smidgen of acceptable compromise?

It saddens me to see Israeli citizens lumped into this mess because it has a government and political movement that no loner serves it's true intentions. The fact that JEWS know first hand what it is to be victims of the exact thing their Government is slowly but surely doing to there neighbors is unacceptable to me.

I can tell you this much for sure. I love Israel as a Nation of people. I would fight to defend it and I am a Irish American. But I would not fight for it because of the government and Zionism. I would fight for it's people's survival.

The Israeli government needs to wake up and change it's course of direction towards it's neighbors if ever there is to be viable security and peace in the region of even the most remote chance.

Finally someone who writes an articulate opinion on the Israel issue about my style...
To add, I have had many priceless Jewish friends, a wife and a daughter I am raising as a Jew.
Yet - from the inside, as Jewish-friendly folks - some of us are quite critical of the wall and the constant aggressive paranoia of people like Bibi.

For the record: Waters has always been very strongly anti-Fascist and anti-authoritarian. A quasi-Fascist role appears only in the worst nightmare of the fictional rock musician Pink in the film done from Waters' "The Wall" precisely because the Fascist dictator has always been his "deep shadow picture."

He has played many times in Israel - some time recently the paranoid right-wing propaganda was too much for him and he shut up. Well, he isn't going to play in Iran or China soon, either. Let's face it, folks, here we have an anti-militarist, humanist political musician of the highest caliber who mobilised generations with his timeless and self-searching messages, while never imagining himself to be some sort of perfect prophet or explainer.

He has sung lines like "you don't have to be a Jew to disapprove of murder" which is an obvious reference to the lessons to be learned from the Holocaust. In the last album of the official Pink Floyd, the excellent and bitter anti-war epic of Final Cut (which has remained one of my all-time favorite rock albums along with Nirvana and Hendrix), his central theme is the musical processing of the history of his father dying for the British Crown in WW2, thus highlighting the failure of all wars for land or influence.

He has an ironic fantasy song where he locks up the modern tyrants and politicians of his day in a camp where they are free to play their shoot-shoot bang-bang lie down your dead games. Brezhniew and Party, Thatcher and Paisley, Reagan and Haig, Mr. Begin and friend all go to the Fletcher Memorial Home for incurable Tyrants, along with a bunch of anonymous Latin-American meat-perking glitterati... (free paraphrase from actual text).

He even described himself as "bolshy" from his early hippie days.

How can you ever even imagine for a minute that this artist and poet and musician with a several decade-long musical and political and human message would be classified by a paranoid political commentator as an anti-Semite?

He even hints at the Holocaust in "the Final Cut" s the defining trauma of human history. "...with cattle-trucks waiting in for the next time..." he sings, before the guitar of Gilmore starts screaming sorrow and horror. It's all so clear, folks.

He's not going to fit the idiotic, sectarian, politically motivated paranoia of the twenty-first century. He is not "in the box." He is not anti-Jewish, anti-Israel or anything. He f*** knows what he is talking, let's face it. And to reiterate, he has played in Israel many times, but never in Iran or China. Or Saudi Arabia. Does that ring a bell? He is an inside critic, man, because he is too sensitive, he is a left-winger for sure, and disapproves of all this tribal bull that's got into our overpopulated minds...

"A place to stay... Enough to eat... and [where] you can speak out loud your doubts and fears - and none ever disappears, you never hear their standard issue - kicking in your door..." (from the lyrics of The Final Cut)

No wonder he dislikes the f*** Wall built in Israel after he was present at the tearing down of the Germany Wall! Just because that was erected by the Soviets, it does not mean Roger is anti-Russian or anything.

Well, if you're stupid and tribal, please do me a favor and forget all about Pink Floyd and especially Roger Waters.
You gotta be intelligent AND emotional and sensitive to be able to listen to it... Sorry...
That was true in 1975 and it is even truer now.

If I was an Israeli I would feel sad that our government got to such extremes - I would not try to throw mud on the bringer of bad news, instead I would try to rely on the feedback of others. Who have been championing the rights of the downtrodden for decades anyway. And who clearly dislike Theocratic rule as done in Islam.

Please don't be stupid.
Or if you want to be, stay away from ATS. It says "Deny Ignorance!"

Kokatsi

I guess when you punch your children , your children most likely gonna hit their children too.
Meaning to say ,what's done to you ,you're going to do to others

shapur
reply to post by TheWrightWing

 

I hate to repeat this phrase but, there is a difference between the Jews and the Zionists. If anything Jews have been and are the primary victims of the Zionists, just look at what's happening in the world right now.

The Jew haters wouldn't stop at the Zionists anyway. This anti Zionist thing is just a tool to pry the door open and a mask to hide their total race hate. The Zionist represent strong Jewish nationalism and Jews that will stand up, play hard ball, defend themselves in the face of centuries of regional anti Israeli race hate.

reply to post by Kokatsi



This looks to me like he may have fallen into the trap of over identifying with Hamas and Hezbollah as strugglers against injustice. Simply because they appear, as planed and postured, as part of a "peoples struggle". What they are in reality are anti Jew paramilitary organizations funded and spurred on by their Jew hating overlords abroad, oppressors and murdering gangsters that kill off and persecute their own people, other Palestinians and Lebanese that will not fall in line with their Jew hating machinations.

What sort of folks use schools as rocket launching areas to draw Israeli war planes in? Then do a photo op of the dead children as anti Jew propaganda? And how is walking into a pizza shop or a night club in Jerusalem, full of college students, then setting off a bomb a jab at Zionism?

reply to post by TheWrightWing

Jews are middle easterners.

Jews can also be (and look) Indian, Arab, Oriental, Black or European depending on where they settled.

The majority European Jews belong in Europe, where they had been living as a successful minority for several generations.

reply to post by teslahowitzer


Tila tequila, famous for having a lot of myspace friends, with her paranoid conspiracy mutterings for attention is quite different than an intelligent and notable figure in worldwide entertainment commenting on world issues and how that effects his decisions and so his carreer.

Logarock

shapur
reply to post by TheWrightWing

 

I hate to repeat this phrase but, there is a difference between the Jews and the Zionists. If anything Jews have been and are the primary victims of the Zionists, just look at what's happening in the world right now.

The Jew haters wouldn't stop at the Zionists anyway. This anti Zionist thing is just a tool to pry the door open and a mask to hide their total race hate. The Zionist represent strong Jewish nationalism and Jews that will stand up, play hard ball, defend themselves in the face of centuries of regional anti Israeli race hate.

Modern day Zionism has nothing to do with Judaism. It was dreamed up by a racist European atheist based on a bunch of books written in Babylon. The only time Zionist cry they are Jews is when they are caught doing something illegal or to use it to get what they want. And where did this Israeli race come from? Don't tell me you actually believe that Jews are a separate race nonsense.

reply to post by buster2010


Buster, if it were 1939 and you were in Germany you would have been goose stepping with the best of them.

All that a Jewish national state has allowed for you is better propaganda spin on their defensive measures. Hate for Zionists is simply an extension of the 1930's world Jewry conspiracy hate that existed in Germany.

Logarock
reply to post by buster2010

 

Buster, if it were 1939 and you were in Germany you would have been goose stepping with the best of them.

All that a Jewish national state has allowed for you is better propaganda spin on their defensive measures.

Oh sure the anti Semitic card all the Israeli defenders play that card. Just because a person is critical of Israel policies in no way makes them anti Semitic. And seeing what Israels policies are and you are defending it you may want to brush up on the goosestepping yourself. If I am anti Jewish as you and other Israeli defenders claim then post a link to one thread I started that is anti Jewish. It also wouldn't hurt for you to learn what the word Semitic means because if you think it means Jewish then you are wrong.

sk0rpi0n
The majority European Jews belong in Europe, where they had been living as a successful minority for several generations.

Aren't Jews fortunate to have fine folks like you who know where Jews really belong?

And when your sort tires of them where you say they should go?

Then where?

Ask me where I think you belong?