US gov't greenlights the slaughter of BALD EAGLES on windfarms!

Ah the majestic Bald Eagle. Around here they like to eat out of dumpsters. I've seen three ravens harass and scare off a Bald Eagle trying to munch on a McDonalds wrapper.

And just think, if Ben Franklin would have had it his way -- the Turkey would be the national bird.

reply to post by Echtelion


The irony, a government and administration that does not care about this country, destroying something that's an american image worldwide

reply to post by MrSpad


You mean this?

The change, requested by the wind energy industry and officially revealed Friday, will provide legal protection for the lifespan of wind farms and other projects that obtain a permit and do everything possible to avoid killing the birds. Companies will also have to commit to take additional measures if they exceed their permit limits or if new information suggests eagle populations are being affected.

As the article says, as long as the company has a permit and is ASSUMED to avoid killing, it grant it full legal protection. So, no. The typical twisting in the multilayered linguistic tricks in American Law makes it look white, while in fact it is black. It's another case of the common "you didn't do what you don't claim we haven't accused of".

MrSpad
I read the title and then I read they must do everything possible to avoid harming them. So I wonder how the OP ends up so confused?

ketsuko
reply to post by Malynn

 

That's OK. They're also shooting snowy owls at JFK airport, too.

I understand the dangers and damages caused when a bird gets caught in a plane engine, but why are we shooting them rather than netting them? Are snowy owls that numerous at any one time that we couldn't do it?

I believe it takes more than one bird to bring down a large plane? Typically, it's a flock of whatever that causes problems? Off topic I suppose.

Anyhow, Logan airport captures and relocates the owls. JFK probably shoots them because it's cheaper but I'm not sure. There are several a petitions in NYC right now regarding the JFK method.

reply to post by someoneinnyc


It does usually take more than one to bring down a plane, but not to damage one.

Regardless, they are shooting the owls..

reply to post by WhiteAlice


Thanks for posting these. I too have been reading about how wind farms kills birds and not because they hit the blades. They believe it's the dramatic changes air pressure or some other sensitivity that birds and bats have, it causes organ failure. Birds migrate at night and this is when bright lights, tall glass buildings and wind turbines really mess their navigation and senses.

Also reading about how solar farms are like giant open microwaves that literally fry birds as they fly over.



General comment for this thread:
None of this is necessary. The only thing "necessary" is corporate profits. We have the tech to allow for unlimited power with no environmental impact but no one will fund it or support it because it doesn't create long term jobs or profit. We all know gas cars are out dated but the profit is still there. Also, why isn't solar on every rooftop? Because it works for the people not TPTB. Once it's on private land the big companies and municipalities don't make money.

We are short sighted idiots in love with our get rich dreams and all else is collateral damage. But... every action has a reaction... karma in this life or the next. And if anyone doesn't believe in future lives, then children, grandchildren, etc... don't exist.

reply to post by ketsuko


Forgot the link to the petition regarding JFK shooting owls.

This site has a bunch of info and links on solar farms and wind farms and how they are destroying ecosystems.
Defending the Desert
The desert is not deserted.

Pretty much everything humans do kills some type of animal, by displacement if not outright.

But, yeah, no shortage of bald eagles around here. They are everywhere and so is their crap!

We're in the position of having a gigantic windfarm forced upon us here at our place in Australia. A few farmers have been paid massive amounts of money to "host" them on their properties. It's broken the community (no one here wants it), and those who have accepted windfarm money to have turbines on their property have gone into hiding, yet still the local government approves it.

We have Wedge Tailed Eagles here. I guess they are Australia's Bald Eagle. Nesting sites pepper the hillside where 42 of these fans (taller than any building in our capital city, Adelaide) will be built. I'm saddened to think that they will be erased.

These windfarm companies are corrupt. South Australia has some of the highest electricity prices in the world. This is due to Government handouts for windfarm companies that then force them onto people who don't want them. Some houses in our area will be a measly kilometre away from multiple, whirring turbines, complete with flickering shadows across your whole house (I've checked other windfarm sites - its horrible. The noise and whirling shadows drove me insane).

There are dozens of massive windfarm sites around our country yet not one coal-fired power plant has been shut down OR reduced it's coal usage. Origin energy (one of the main electricity suppliers here), have come forward and stated they don't believe windfarms work because they cannot be assured of supply (some days the wind, she doesn't blow), and they cannot store what is created via turbines so therefore they need to keep the coal fires burning.

Meanwhile, windfarm companies are pocketing HUGE amounts of taxpayer money for basically destroying peoples lives. The only reason they build them near people is because of existing power line infrastructure. Basically, people are second best to these companies building them in remote areas and constructing the power lines they need.

Luckily, the current government is reviewing these $$$ handouts based on non compliance by existing turbine farms. Noise levels exceed what they are allowed to yet they still receive funding. I'm not holding my breath though.

It's a sad day when you realise one of these turbine farms will be destroying beautiful ridgeline behind your family home. When we first heard about it we actually supported it. That is until we spoke to others who have had them built nearby. One site has a huge number of people who have left their houses (and mortgages), to live with friends because of the noise issues and lack of sleep, yet greedy windfarm companies still stick their snout in the bucket and snort our lives away without a care in the world.

Can't you see people... that the whole source of the problem lies in how energy is organized and controlled?

It's not about "Green" energies or filthy energies, it's about INDUSTRIAL and centralized process of producing energy.

Oil production, as an instance, could be a much better thing if limited to production of plastics, as an instance. But the whole Rockefeller scheme made it to be enforced and monopolized nation, continental-wide.

Eagles or any other birds will have little relation with a wind power generator installed on a yard just to power a house... But when power management is enforced and consolidated in the hands of the government and corporations, that means large projects, big money, big profits, and little regard for real-life issues, or the danger that those industrial practices can have, and eagles being killed, in the name of "sehkiuritah".

In other words, that's the exact same problem than why there's been so many toxic/genetic pollution of all kinds in the US for decades, because it's done all through a big systematic industrial process, managed by a few profiteers and control freak maniacs that the Americans STILL have to deal with.

But of course, as long as we're being fed with divisive and deluded reactionary/racist/sexist crapaganda (like ATS is plagued with), it's unlikely to happen soon!

Wrabbit2000
Umm.. Okay, this BANANA stuff is getting to be too much, in my humble opinion. Right from the quote in the OP..

The change, requested by the wind energy industry and officially revealed Friday, will provide legal protection for the lifespan of wind farms and other projects that obtain a permit and do everything possible to avoid killing the birds. Companies will also have to commit to take additional measures if they exceed their permit limits or if new information suggests eagle populations are being affected.

But the rule makes clear that revoking a permit is a last resort.

Now if nothing short of shutting down entirely is what some consider to be enough. Okay.. I'll go with that...if we can stop trying to bankrupt coal and put that industry down so hard ...or watching oil struggle outside of very specific projects and favored efforts.

However, this IS the 'alternative' power so many loudly demand. If it's not this, it's solar...but the Sierra Club has sued that to a standstill on both San Diego and San Bernardino counties in California... (rolls eyes)

BTW.. BANANA stands for Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything...and it's what this has become. I've seen the enormous wind farms in California outside Palm Springs, in Kern County and elsewhere. If they can't exist there...explain to everyone how they can't exist anywhere, because that's as far in the middle of nowhere as it ever gets, IMO.

Why don't we pursue geothermal energy then? We have a few plants already, when I grew up in Nevada the city I lived in (Reno) was powered by it actually and that was 20-30 years ago. We have a lot of geothermal potential, especially in the western part of the country.

It's clean, there's no environmental side effects, it's space efficient, and we've already mastered the technology.

Aazadan

Wrabbit2000
Umm.. Okay, this BANANA stuff is getting to be too much, in my humble opinion. Right from the quote in the OP..

The change, requested by the wind energy industry and officially revealed Friday, will provide legal protection for the lifespan of wind farms and other projects that obtain a permit and do everything possible to avoid killing the birds. Companies will also have to commit to take additional measures if they exceed their permit limits or if new information suggests eagle populations are being affected.

But the rule makes clear that revoking a permit is a last resort.

Now if nothing short of shutting down entirely is what some consider to be enough. Okay.. I'll go with that...if we can stop trying to bankrupt coal and put that industry down so hard ...or watching oil struggle outside of very specific projects and favored efforts.

However, this IS the 'alternative' power so many loudly demand. If it's not this, it's solar...but the Sierra Club has sued that to a standstill on both San Diego and San Bernardino counties in California... (rolls eyes)

BTW.. BANANA stands for Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything...and it's what this has become. I've seen the enormous wind farms in California outside Palm Springs, in Kern County and elsewhere. If they can't exist there...explain to everyone how they can't exist anywhere, because that's as far in the middle of nowhere as it ever gets, IMO.

Why don't we pursue geothermal energy then? We have a few plants already, when I grew up in Nevada the city I lived in (Reno) was powered by it actually and that was 20-30 years ago. We have a lot of geothermal potential, especially in the western part of the country.

It's clean, there's no environmental side effects, it's space efficient, and we've already mastered the technology.

Who is "We"? That's often a very confusing pronoun, that can lead to illusory referent.

But it may be possible for you to warm your house with a geothermal system, and it's pretty easy, with sufficient work and proper equipment. It's indeed marvelous because once set up, it'll just eternally produce energy, without a penny or fuel.

If urban areas would have remained actual towns and not damn suburbia, it'd be also possible to manage some local power plants based on water, wind, or coal as in the old days, that'd be efficient still.

I really don,t see where the population HAS to rely on widespread electric infrastructure run by governments/big business. It's a completely artificial need actually serving the political and financial ends of some groups. As you see, every system set in place is made to funnel money out of people's pockets, and keep them dependent on it...

reply to post by Aazadan


Geothermal is an outstanding solution. It just can't be a significant solution, as I understand the technology. For the scale and power needed on industrial power levels, they can't just build them anywhere and there are inherent issues with them as well. There have been some nasty accidents when the math isn't quite right on pressures and tolerances.

The nature of the industrial scale stuff also strikes me as an interesting thing to be doing if any fraking is in the area. Drilling into the same general substructure, aren't they? Or am I off on that part?

Echtelion
But it may be possible for you to warm your house with a geothermal system, and it's pretty easy, with sufficient work and proper equipment. It's indeed marvelous because once set up, it'll just eternally produce energy, without a penny or fuel.

There are entire cities powered by geothermal in the US.

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Aazadan

 

Geothermal is an outstanding solution. It just can't be a significant solution, as I understand the technology. For the scale and power needed on industrial power levels, they can't just build them anywhere and there are inherent issues with them as well. There have been some nasty accidents when the math isn't quite right on pressures and tolerances.

The nature of the industrial scale stuff also strikes me as an interesting thing to be doing if any fraking is in the area. Drilling into the same general substructure, aren't they? Or am I off on that part?

What I've read has said we can contribute 20% of our national power needs from geothermal. That's based on known and proven technology, all we have to do is build the things. Considering Obama's goal is to double wind from 2% to 4%, 20% seems pretty significant. I don't know about the conflict with fracking but fracking is primarily a midwest thing and eastern thing.

To put 20% in perspective
Coal is 37%
Natural gas is 30%
Nuclear is 19%
Hydroelectric is 7%

Geothermal can be as big as nuclear. To me that is pretty significant.

cdn.static-economist.com...

That shows a rough idea of where the shale oil deposits are.

media.treehugger.com...

That's a map of where our geothermal deposits are.

The two barely overlap at all.

reply to post by Echtelion


I honestly don't know what to make of this. I've never looked into this very much.

The birds (of all types) are disappearing, personally I believe it is a combination of cellular and other radio frequencies (RF) and pestisides/herbisides in their food supplies. Were it not for those factors, I don't believe that wind farms would cause any significant damage to any bird population; by their nature birds have to be sensitive to wind currents and I doubt they would approach an area of such turbulance without being disabled in some prior manner.

Yes wind farms will be in prime hunting grounds for predatory birds, open fields where the birds can see for miles.

I don't know enough about the subject to really know. However, it is fact that airports are bad for birds and we have never debated their wisdom, maybe we should.

When I was young and first living in Los Angeles, I remember huge flocks of birds overhead during their migrations - no more; pigeons & seagulls were everywhere, rather rare today. Birds used to be everywhere, not so much today and now I live in a semi rural area. Mostly we have crows and, of all things, parrots (thank you Busch Gardens).

reply to post by someoneinnyc


Yep, that would be barotrauma and was the leading cause of death found by researchers for bats. Barotrauma is actually a pretty terrible way to go as it does cause rupture of the internal organs. Imagine your insides popping.

Agreed on solar farms as they do generate an intense, large, and concentrated pocket of hot air overhead. I think, honestly, that our biggest mistake in these wind and solar farms is that we are simply doing too much of them in concentrated areas. It's sad but probably the best solutions would be that individual homes be outfitted with their own solar/wind hybrid technology. This would disperse out the units so that there is more space between them and actually use a different sort of turbine entirely.

This article has a picture of just such a set up. As you can see, the blades do not stretch outward as in the very large turbines. This would actually both minimize the likelihood of birds/bats attempting to roosting on the units as well as minimizing the area of possible barotrauma zones. www.urbangreenenergy.com...

The only reason why we don't do this is because we have decided collectively as a society that the all-mighty dollar is the number one determinant for nearly all that we do. It simply wouldn't be profitable to install hybrid systems on every home across the US because keeping such things under corporate control guarantees profits for that entity. Even more disturbing is that these companies are frequently public utility companies in a bastardized relationship between government and private ownership. The number one utility bill that we have in the US is for electricity. Instead of continuing to support these entities that are not acting in the public interest, we should be moving towards potentially eliminating that electricity bill for all.

We have that technology. We don't do it because of the way we are and what we value--the love of that all-mighty dollar trumps the stress of families struggling to make ends meet and it sure as hell seems to trump the hundreds of thousands of flying critters that die every year to our current version of "green" energy. We're stupid.

To put what I'm suggesting above down into a money measure, I'll do a comparison between what it would cost to outfit an entire county with 150,000 households with a solar/wind hybrid unit vs. the cost of a wind farm.

The cost for a solar/wind hybrid unit for a residence can range between $6000-9000. We'll use a slightly above average estimate of $8000 for our calculation:

150,000 * 8000 = $1.2 billion.

Cost of wind farm: Exceeding $1 billion.

In the residential hybrid power scenario, one would be using the existing grid to transfer the energy generated. In the case of developing a solar or wind farm, one would have to put in a connecting line to transfer the energy from the site. That cost is apparently $30,000 per mile.

The Navajo Nation has begun a residential solar/wind hybrid program for their residents that do not currently have access to electricity. These residents pay $75 a month for the unit and that is their sole electricity bill. For comparison's sake, when I was living on the Navajo Reservation, our household electricity bill was $140 per month via NTUA in 2008. www.durangoherald.com...

We could do the same thing in every city within the US through the setting up of programs within the existing public utility companies that allow residential customers to opt-in on the installation of a solar/hybrid system on their home, pay for it through regular payments to said company, and once its paid off, have a routine maintenance fee after excess credits are made for generated electricity that is returned to the grid.

Why aren't we doing this? Because how would the energy companies continue to make money if we don't stick with our current ways. That's the only reason I can perceive.

rendezvous.blogs.nytimes.com...
www.sustainablebusiness.com...

reply to post by FyreByrd


shh, people like airports, it isn't something they can sensationalize without hurting themselves or coming off as nutters because it is a part of our common everyday life (well, not mine).

It is a shame these flying species are dying because of wind farms, but they will learn and avoid ... isn't that natural selection and evolution? Animals have been adapting to all our other creations.

The sensationalist title and OP is sickening. I'd hope if Bush did the same thing, the outcry would be as loud; well it would, it just would've been by someone else. The polarized political population is perpetually poor for the people's progress and prosperity. Instead of sensationalizing something to blow it out of proportion and start a pissing contest that does no one in the country any good; why not try to make it better?

We need to stop burning # for power. I don't mind my clean burn coal plant 2 miles away. My air is clean and I have cheap, stable power. I don't mind the wind farms 20 miles away that powers entire cities. I agree we need to be careful, and try to minimize environmental impacts, but until we have realistic fusion or something else clean and safe, we need to do what we can for long term sustainability and prolonging the use of our resources, like natural gas for heating houses in the winter instead of for power.

It isn't about being a tree hugger, it is about being a responsible society and thinking about long term future and effects instead of short term ease of access and convenience. We need to take paths towards clean, cheap, safe energy for the progression of society as a whole. It is one of the next big steps, to have energy independence world wide through clean, natural/renewable resources that don't pollute the habitat we require to survive. That has no political bias, it is just doing what is best for humanity, not profits or fear of change or towing political lines.