Scientists: We Will Find Alien Life

ATSZOMBIE
No there isn't, its quite reasonable to surmise that if there IS Alien life out there, its been around before us and after us. Given that when it happens, we can assume a race MILLIONS of years ahead of us now could well travel here without any problem at all.

But speculating about what a species a million years ahead of us might do does not equate to evidence. There are lots of very smart people looking for real aliens right now in a dizzying amount of ways and there are even more ways that we've not yet looked for them.

None of which involves UFOs as surrogates for aliens either.

boymonkey74
reply to post by combatmaster

 

Intergalactic?

Musical interlude.

Outstanding

ATSZOMBIE
When it happens, I will troll thru all ATS posts and publicly call out the skeptics/naysayers for a public BASHING. Cant wait!

news.yahoo.com...

edit on 12/6/2013 by tothetenthpower because: --Mod Edit--All Caps, please don't use them

Yep, the typical swinging of the pendulum all the way over to skeptics/debunkers/non-believers being irrational thinkers. You're wrong. As AliceBleachWhite commented, I'm not familiar with too many in the scientific community that would say life in our galaxy and beyond isn't possible. That would be a ridiculous assumption.

You're also pointing out with that article that science is actively searching for life and not trying to hide it through blurred moon or Mars photographs.

Isn't it also a valid assumption that one life form HAS to be the first sentient being in the universe (after all someone has to be first) to venture into space? What if, we humans are that first? Granted the odds are on par with the event of an intelligent alien race already visiting Earth, but it is not zero....right?

In that case, there is nobody else out there to "talk to" yet, so we better get our # together here so we can last long enough for another to rise and we can find and communicate with them.

Krakatoa

Isn't it also a valid assumption that one life form HAS to be the first sentient being in the universe (after all someone has to be first) to venture into space? What if, we humans are that first? Granted the odds are on par with the event of an intelligent alien race already visiting Earth, but it is not zero....right?

Correct. It is not zero, but probably pretty close to it due to the age of the universe and how young we are.

The odds that we'd be "the first ones" when there has been plenty of time for us to actually be the 100th, 1000th, or 1 million ones in the galaxy are pretty small.

It's still a possibility though, and that is why we search. Because we do not know the answer without looking in every possible way. There's a huge amount of search space for ET that has -not been covered- yet and until that search space is covered most learned professionals would be highly reluctant to declaring "we're the first ones."

I remember reading a book by an author named Savage called "The Millennial Project: Colonizing the Galaxy in Eight Easy Steps" in which he dismissed of the whole "what if we encounter someone else" thing pretty flippantly by declaring that we were "probably the first ones."

He declared this in 1992(!!!)

Let's put that in perspective.

In 1992 the amount of extrasolar planets we knew about was 2.

Those two planets were around a pulsar. A dead, burnt out carcase of a star.

We had no idea of the prevalence of planets much less the prevalence of earthlike, habitable planets in a star's habitable zone.

We had no idea that planets around stars, all kinds of stars including binary star systems, would be the -rule- and not the exception.

We knew very little about extremophiles (life in extreme environments).

So it was the height of hubris to declare that we were probably the first and that it was our "manifest destiny' to populate the galaxy.

There are few things i remember about that book. But that's what I took away from it then and even more so now.

In that case, there is nobody else out there to "talk to" yet, so we better get our # together here so we can last long enough for another to rise and we can find and communicate with them.

Well the more likely reason for the great silence (and this is something that makes some people very uncomfortable) is not that we are first, but that intelligent life commits suicide not long after discovering how to communicate at interstellar distances.

We came dangerously close to doing just that in 1962 during the Cuban Missle Crisis and again in 1983 in the Able Archer exercise (which most people know very little or nothing about).

Able Archer 83, or how we almost had a nuclear war in 1983

The fact that any of us is still here to ponder these questions is down to the heroics of one Russian Lieutenant Colonel named Petrov. He was the "cooler head' that prevailed and stopped what would likely have been a devastating nuclear "counterstrike" on the United States and Western Europe.

On the night of September 26, 1983, the Soviet orbital missile early warning system (SPRN), code-named Oko, reported a single intercontinental ballistic missile launch from the territory of the United States. Lieutenant Colonel Stanislav Petrov, who was on duty during the incident, correctly dismissed the warning as a computer error when ground early warning radars did not detect any launches.

Part of his reasoning was that the system was new and known to malfunction before; also, a full scale nuclear attack from the United States would involve thousands of simultaneous launches, not a single missile.

Later, the system reported four more ICBM launches headed to the Soviet Union, but Petrov again dismissed the reports as false. The investigation that followed revealed that the system indeed malfunctioned and false alarms were caused by a rare alignment of sunlight on high-altitude clouds and the satellites' orbits.

This is why nuclear weapons are madness and why we'd be better off without them. But that's another subject for another thread.

BTW: I've seen at least one popular UFO program try to say that UFOs were responsible for the Russian false alarm. (facepalm) - "Unsealed: Alien Files"

PhoenixOD
SCIENTISTS: We WILL find ALIEN LIFE = SCIENTISTS: please can we have more money for new toys.

I mean seriously is it really worth all the billions and billions we spend? Its not going to make a single bit of difference to life on earth if we know or not but we might spend trillions in the end to find out. I want to know but there so much we could be spending the money on right now to help humanity.

edit on 6-12-2013 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)

One could make the argument about all of science and just instead choose to fund only certain engineering ventures and medical research. The recent Higgs Boson discovery won't make "a single bit of difference" on Earth, and yet it is central to our understanding of the universe and our place in it.

Basing the importance of research on its utility for creating devices or solving practical problems is the recipe for stagnation.

According to this article we harve already found 'alien life':

British scientists claim to have found proof of alien life

A TEAM of British scientists is convinced it has found proof of alien life, after it harvested strange organisms from the edge of space.
The scientists came to the startling conclusion after a balloon sent 27 kilometres into the stratosphere came back carrying small biological organisms believed to have originated from space.
Professor Milton Wainwright, of the University of Sheffield’s Department of Molecular Biology and Biotechnology, says he is "95 per cent convinced" the organisms do not originate from Earth.
"By all known information that science has, we know that they must be coming in from space," he said. "There is no known mechanism by which these life forms can achieve that height. As far as we can tell from known physics, they must be incoming.

"If life does continue to arrive from space then we have to completely change our view of biology and evolution. New textbooks will have to be written!

"If they came from Earth, we would expect to see stuff that we find on Earth commonly, like pollen."
Instead, some of the samples were captured covered with cosmic dust.
The group of scientists involved in the study believes the particles are coming from comets, which are large balls of ice travelling through space at high speed. The samples were collected during a meteorite show, when a comet melted and released the organisms as it broke down.
"The particles are very clean," added Professor Wainwright. "[Cosmic] dust isn't stuck to them, so we think they came from an aquatic environment, and the most obvious aquatic environment in space is a comet.”
The organisms probably contain DNA, supporting the notion that life on Earth may itself have extraterrestrial origins

See whole article here:
www.news.com.au...

Now the next question is will we find 'intelligent life'?

And this is followed by two other questions:
1. Would you consider human life to be intelligent?
2. If you grant that human life is intelligent is it intelligent enough to recognize other and possibly more highly advanced [depending on your standard of measurement of what is advanced] that may be much more highly advanced and yet different from human - Other entities or beings may seriously question human intelligence and some might consider the warnings of the famous physicist Stephen Hawking who thinks we may do better not to meet them.

What do you think Human?
[NOTE: Aliens may also respond but be forewarned, you may eaten by hungry alien debunkers who secretly feed on alien life !]

*sorry posting in the wrong thread.*

peace.

Diablos

One could make the argument about all of science and just instead choose to fund only certain engineering ventures and medical research. The recent Higgs Boson discovery won't make "a single bit of difference" on Earth, and yet it is central to our understanding of the universe and our place in it.

Basing the importance of research on its utility for creating devices or solving practical problems is the recipe for stagnation.

+100

Green star coming for you.

Not to mention, today's basic research is tomorrows applied science (ie: engineering).

Imagine if Edison, Tesla, Marconi and Maxwell etc did not bother with research into electricity and radio.

It seems obvious to us the utility of this research but it was not that obvious back then.

The difference between today and then is that most of the "low hanging fruit" in physics has been picked so the big questions we have involve bigger experiments and yes, they cost money.

If all we did was research with an obvious near term benefit, we would not advance much as a species. We'd all still be flying around on lighter than air, airships and listening to victrolas

Steampunk might be a cool fashion trend but I'm glad our world isn't like that.

AlienView
According to this article we harve already found 'alien life':

British scientists claim to have found proof of alien life

A TEAM of British scientists is convinced it has found proof of alien life, after it harvested strange organisms from the edge of space.
The scientists came to the startling conclusion after a balloon sent 27 kilometres into the stratosphere came back carrying small biological organisms believed to have originated from space.
Professor Milton Wainwright, of the University of Sheffield’s Department of Molecular Biology and Biotechnology, says he is "95 per cent convinced" the organisms do not originate from Earth.
"By all known information that science has, we know that they must be coming in from space," he said. "There is no known mechanism by which these life forms can achieve that height. As far as we can tell from known physics, they must be incoming.

That is one of the most dubious claims of finding extraterrestrial life and it has already been refuted. This is the process of science at work.

The original paper grabbed headlines but the papers refuting it typically do not.

If there is anything to this then the authors of the original papers are going to have to answer the rebuttals with better experiments and better evidence but as it stands now, they stand on weak ground.

AlienView
Now the next question is will we find 'intelligent life'?

Open question. We hope but there is much work left to do and instruments to build to find it.

And this is followed by two other questions:
1. Would you consider human life to be intelligent?

Yes. If we define intelligence by the ability to ponder the universe and manipulate our environment as well as communicate. We tick all of the boxes.

2. If you grant that human life is intelligent is it intelligent enough to recognize other and possibly more highly advanced [depending on your standard of measurement of what is advanced] that may be much more highly advanced and yet different from human - Other entities or beings may seriously question human intelligence and some might consider the warnings of the famous physicist Stephen Hawking who thinks we may do better not to meet them.

Fair point but there are plenty of things an intelligent and technological species might do which would give away their existence. None of these things involves them having to make an effort to meet us.

Stephen Hawking, smart as he is, is not well versed in the interdisciplinary scope that astrobiology embodies. He speculated based on an anthropomorphic assumption, which is frowned upon in astrobiology.

Allan Hills 84001, the martian meteorite found in Antartica in 1984, most likely has Martian microbes in it.
Some scientists put it at 99.99%, but until you get that absolute 100%, they will not bless it.

As far as I am concerned, it's already a done deal, next?

charlyv
Allan Hills 84001, the martian meteorite found in Antartica in 1984, most likely has Martian microbes in it.
Some scientists put it at 99.99%, but until you get that absolute 100%, they will not bless it.

As far as I am concerned, it's already a done deal, next?

Actually it isn't. That was another case where the initial paper grabbed attention but the rebuttals simply are not covered by the media, which leads to the impression by the general public that we've already found alien life.

We have not.

Let Wikipedia be your friend...

Allan Hills 84001

reply to post by AlienView

According to this article we harve already found 'alien life'...
Now the next question is will we find 'intelligent life'?

The next question should be did they find Alien life or was it terrestrial ?
This team has a history of making unverified claims .
Scientists claim to have found evidence of ALIEN LIFE

reply to post by Diablos

One could make the argument about all of science and just instead choose to fund only certain engineering ventures and medical research. The recent Higgs Boson discovery won't make "a single bit of difference" on Earth, and yet it is central to our understanding of the universe and our place in it.

Yes i agree with you to an extent. But particle physics does have some real world application in the communications field as well as general materials and even computing.

But lets face it here the technology needed to try to answer the question of are we alone is probably some of the most expensive in the world. And for what ? its either yes or no. Neither of those answers are going to make a blind bit of difference to you and me in our daily lives.

PhoenixOD
reply to post by Diablos

 

One could make the argument about all of science and just instead choose to fund only certain engineering ventures and medical research. The recent Higgs Boson discovery won't make "a single bit of difference" on Earth, and yet it is central to our understanding of the universe and our place in it.

Yes i agree with you to an extent. But particle physics does have some real world application in the communications field as well as general materials and even computing.

But lets face it here the technology needed to try to answer the question of are we alone is probably some of the most expensive in the world. And for what ? its either yes or no. Neither of those answers are going to make a blind bit of difference to you and me in our daily lives.

Knowledge need not be personally relevant to you for it to have societal value. Answering questions like these is what makes us who we are.

The pursuit of knowledge is as often about the pursuit as the catch.

And you should know that there have been things developed for astrobiology that has other uses, for instance the stuff they used to monitor the methane bubble after the disaster in in the Gulf of Mexico oil rig blow out, was originally developed for astrobiology. There are other examples but surely answering one of the greatest questions we've ever conceived has its own value.

Not to mention the profound effect it might have future of your family generations out and all of humanity.

reply to post by JadeStar


Lets just say we stopped all the research into other galaxies , stars , the question of are we alone etc and concentrated all that money and brainpower in trying to solely benefit mankind for 200 years. 200 years is less than a drop in the ocean in the big scheme of things. In 200 years technology would advance so vastly that what we are trying to achieve today with space exploration that's costing billions of dollars is going to cost a lot less. We could pick up where we left off at a much reduced cost to everyone.

Space exploration and the answer to life in the universe shouldn't have to be one of the most expensive thing in the world. Especially when the planet is hurting from economic troubles / poverty, food shortages, pollution etc etc. A bit of patience would go a long way.

AliceBleachWhite
There's a big difference between Alien Life ... somewhere ELSE in the universe ... out "there" ... somewhere in the vast ambiguously far far away, and Aliens visiting here.

Further, there's a difference between finding life elsewhere, and finding technological intelligent life.

I don't think I know anyone in the scientific community who thinks or believes we're the only life in the universe. That's ridiculous.

Life somewhere in the vastness of the universe? Sure.

Life visiting Earth? Not likely.

edit on 12/6/2013 by AliceBleachWhite because: (no reason given)

And exactly WHY is it unlikely?

I've read many of your posts, and i KNOW you are not an idiot, so i'm puzzled as to why an intelligent poster such as yourself is acting as though you are less than intelligent?

All that stands between ourselves and our planet from being vistited, observed, catalogued and manipulated by an ETI species is simply technology.

And as an aside, that is all that prevents ourselves from doing similar things to an ETI - technology, or rather a current lack of the correct tech for the purpose.

Will Humans overcome our technological hurdles that currently prevent us from visiting ETI's? Yes, of course we will - sooner or later, provided we don't suffer a disaster or some calamity before we manage it. But it is virtually certain we will discover process and methods to manipulate our physics to enable FTL while remaining within relativity...read NASA 'warp bubble' posts for ideas already being thrashed out by sections of our sciences to get an idea of how we may possibly achieve such FTL travel, while not violating our current understanding of physics.

There are potentially myriad other methods of travelling the stars we may discover today, tomorrow or within the next millennia, or perhaps in tens of millennia..since time is relative, if it takes a million years to discover the processes and materials sciences to get where we want to go, it doesn't matter, as long as we achieve it.

Applying the same criteria to ETI's coming here, we can surely see the obvious, at least appreciate the nature of what it would take to overcome the problems we encounter when talking about star travel and ETI's visiting here or indeed elsewhere.

You yourself, like most rational people who consider these questions regarding ETI life elsewhere have concluded there is obviously ETI life out there, and most certainly life ranging in sophistication from single celled organisms to multicellular, intelligent and technological species, much like ourselves.

When we conclude this as a given (the ratio of planets to stars, especially in the GZ of the host system makes this almost a certainty) we must also conclude that on those worlds and star systems hosting intelligent and technological species, a number of them will be highly technological, surpassing our own current levels.

Exactly how far ahead technologically is certainly debatable, but the variations will almost certainly be as varied as there are numbers of planets and stars..all different levels iow.

Some will be very similar to our own, some will be inferior and yet more will be so far ahead of us to be percieved as godlike, perhaps even actual gods. Their cultures may be thousands, possibly tens of thousands of years ahead of us...perhaps they may be younger and smarter, or got lucky in a few key experiments that brought them into a high technology era sooner than us...the permutations and possibilities are literally endless.

In a thousand years, perhaps we will be at such a level ourselves, or at a similar level at least.

All of this means of course, that those ETI's that are indeed ahead of us, are very likely to be coming here for reasons and purposes unknown..it is exactly what we would do once we gained the means to do so.

We would scan the stars for signs of life and with our interstellar travel systems (whatever form that eventually takes) we would go there and investigate and probably exploit in one way or another...they would probably do the same thing, as i suspect most species that develop star travel would do..at least initially.

Time and technological ability is all that separates the species residing in our galaxy (or any galaxy)...and species are almost certainly going to develop at different times and have wildly differing levels of technology because of that developmental time difference.

It's not logical to conclude myriad forms of ETI must exist, but then claim to believe none of it can possibly be visiting Earth. Myriad life means myriad levels of progress...we cannot logically assume ETI life is always going to be developmentally behind Humanity, to do so based on averages alone is always going to be totally incorrect.

It is therefore VERY likely we have been and probably continue to be visited by ETI species, for whatever reason, simply because they can perhaps.

ATSZOMBIE
When it happens, I will troll thru all ATS posts and publicly call out the skeptics/naysayers for a public BASHING. Cant wait!

news.yahoo.com...

edit on 12/6/2013 by tothetenthpower because: --Mod Edit--All Caps, please don't use them

Their are VERRRYYY few skeptics (if any) on ATS who don't believe in the possibility -- or even the probability -- of life eleswhere.

I'm also not at all surprised science believes they will someday find life/signs of life elsewhere, considering scientists understand the sheer size of the universe, and considering they understand that life on Earth is very rigorous and adaptive -- i.e., life may be something that is not uncommon and can find a niche to exist in the various and extreme conditions that exist on other planets.

So I'm not sure towards whom you directed the message in your OP.

I hope we find aliens eventually lol. They have to be out there somewhere, the universe is so huge.

Drake equation anyone?