How to build a Great Pyramid...(and have fun doing it!)

reply to post by stonedgolfer


Each pyramid would have taken a workforce of up to 10,000 men.

One pyramid may have been constructed in several decades.

Those times were different, there was political stability.

Any project spanning several decades is difficult to pull in modern times. Egyptians did that for many pyramids.

So many teams would have worked on quarrying stones, many boats were used to transport the stones down the Nile river, and carts were used to ferry the stone from the boats to the construction site.

The carts were pulled up the ramps by ropes.

People who tried to work out the construction method have missed the carts.

The "road" part was covered by carts, water part by boat etc.

reply to post by GargIndia


Large stone monuments are not unique to Egypt.

There were stone buildings in India much before any were built in Egypt.

India has a well established traditional method of constructing stone buildings which are very ornate.

The unique about Egypt is the shape and "solid" construction which requires very large amount of material.

reply to post by Woodcarver


interesting math. I will never believe in this...that a block of the Ghyza pyramid can be carved up from the bedrock, dragged/transported and put in place in one hour...

With todays or yesterdays tech...I don't buy it. I never will.


reply to post by Kantzveldt



certainly...I wouldn't call building a great pyramid fun. If it was built by people of that day...somehow...you can bet your life that many died building it...and they certainly weren't having fun.

OccamsRazor04
reply to post by BobAthome

 

How do you arrive at 2.3 million hours? My math does not add up to that at all.

I arrive at about 100,000 hours, and 10-20 years to complete the pyramid.

edit on 8-12-2013 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)

Lol. What maths are you doing to get 10-20 years?

You do understand that the one block every 150 seconds value is DERIVED from 20 years? I.e Herotodus claimed in 500 BC the Great Pyramid was built in 20 years, therefore 1 block had to be fully processed in 150 seconds for that number to work.

No offence but hearing you say one block is possible every 30 seconds makes me think how little understanding you actually have of the entire set of engineering and construction skills required for just one of those blocks to be fully processed (quarried, shaped, polished, checked, transported, loaded/lifted and placed - final dimension and placement check). Even if you had all 2 million or so blocks a couple hundred metres away from the pyramid, you could still not position, lift and place a block in 30 seconds.

Even today, it would take well longer than 30 seconds to lift and accurately place a weight of 15000 kg (average block weight in Great Pyramid is ~15-20 tonnes). If the Egyptians had even lifted and placed a fully finished block in 150seconds, it would have been amazing - let alone the whole block preparation process!

Realistic math should give you 500+ years. Assuming a slightly more advanced civilisation, with a very large work force of skilled engineers and builders should still have you looking at about 200 years (with 100 blocks completing the full process every week on average). To get down to under a century you simply have to assume the ancient Egyptians were significantly more capable in terms of technology (mechanical systems, transport and available tools) and you had 10,000s of workers who did not stop. But then you're left with all the other questions.

At least, that's my take on it. As an engineer by profession, I can only work with what I can compare it to by today's standards.

But seriously, one block every 30 seconds for the ancient Egyptians with copper tools and a windlass sounds plausible to you?

reply to post by DazDaKing


I'm no engineer...but as a layman...I'm having a difficult time accepting they did it somehow. If for nothing else...than time. No Pharaoh could have completed the great pyramid within his own lifetime. Not even 2 lifetimes...

the sheer number of blocks and weight of each one....I'm willing to bet...that 2-3 stones of that weight...over a period of one week...maybe possible...with a large workforce...and copper chisels

Also, imagine how many master craftsmen would have to be employed...


I think most people are not aware what it means to chisel a stone of that size. Even if they somehow cut the large parts of the bedrock quickly...using wedges...you still could not just take that part of the bedrock and just place it on the pyramid. Blocks needed to be sized up correctly...polished to fit...

MarioOnTheFly
reply to post by DazDaKing

 

I'm no engineer...but as a layman...I'm having a difficult time accepting they did it somehow. If for nothing else...than time. No Pharaoh could have completed the great pyramid within his own lifetime. Not even 2 lifetimes...

the sheer number of blocks and weight of each one....I'm willing to bet...that 2-3 stones of that weight...over a period of one week...maybe possible...with a large workforce...and copper chisels

Also, imagine how many master craftsmen would have to be employed...


I think most people are not aware what it means to chisel a stone of that size. Even if they somehow cut the large parts of the bedrock quickly...using wedges...you still could not just take that part of the bedrock and just place it on the pyramid. Blocks needed to be sized up correctly...polished to fit...

You are right. I took a figure of 10 blocks a week originally and even that is generous. You hit the nail on the head with your last few statements - I genuinely don't think people are aware of the complete work needed for one block either. I think, due to the first sight impression the great pyramid gives today, that most people assume the blocks are just roughly rectangular and thrown into any old opening or spacing with little care for dimensions and tolerances.

And like you say - many do not fully understand what it means to chisel (with COPPER!) a granite block to a flatness of 1/1000th of an inch. I think that statement must just fly over people's heads. These blocks are hugeeeee. You are talking taller than a 6foot man and even more so in length.

One 15kg block should take a whole day to process realistically, at best. That's involving a 15-20 man team (maximum limit for one block considering spatial constrictions), with all 15-20 men helping across all tasks, for the majority of the day. That's 7 blocks a week, and that's just preparation - not transporting them and placing them.

Lets say our quarry has 20 of these teams active at any one point (judging by the size of the quarry). That's 140 blocks a week, 560 a month and 6720 a year. That would still take 300 years.

If we assume 140 independent teams in one quarry, consisting of 2800 skilled (keyword) men working an extremely labourous job, we can get about 840 blocks a week, or build the great pyramid in 50 years. This is looking more like it.

I honestly think any higher number of blocks per week is extremely optimistic, and I'd say downright impossible considering their technology. But 2800 men in one quarry sounds unrealistic for working conditions considering the space available. How many quarries were active at any one time during the apparent construction of the Great Pyramid? You'd need atleast 3 full quarries with 3,000 men each all working throughout the day on a block, to even get close to 20 years. But there's many problems to address with that assumption.

This is without even addressing how they handled the 70 tonne blocks, which would require significantly more time preparing, transporting and placing.

reply to post by DazDaKing


Infact, looking back at my logic; a 15,000 kg block cannot be fully processed in one day, using copper tools, and even with a 15-20 man team. It would take half the day to just cut out a rough rectangular shape, and at least another day to accurately shape and possibly a final day to polish it to significant flatness and ensure all the dimensions are correct. I'd say a 15-20 man team, could AT BEST with the assumed tools, prepare a block completely in about 3 days.

That just #s up all my maths, and even puts my extremely generous and unrealistic assumption at almost 200 years completion time, and my realistic model at 1500 years. 2 days is the absolute minimum for a 15-20 man team to prepare a 15 tonne granite rock to significant flatness and shape, polish it and ensure all dimensions - using copper tools. This is not including transport time.

This is annoying me, it is really tricky to get the maths to say anything realistic for the total time (< 50 years) without making ridiculous assumptions for everything else. The only way it could have hit the 20 year range is with the use of machinery, as a block would have to be processed within a few hours across all teams.

At my work, if I was to head down to the manufacturing bay with a 16 tonne piece of granite, and say to all the workers there:

"Lads, can you cut this down to a 15 tonne, rectangular block of X by Y by Z dimensions and with flat faces to a 1/1000th of an inch accuracy in relation to eachother, polished to a surface roughness of Z, by the end of the day please"

I would get multiply bombarded from all angles with: "# off, mate". I know they can't do that without working their arses off for the whole day and that's with the use of many great machines and cutters we have at our bay. At best, it would take them 5-6 hours in that exact scenario - being realistic since humans are not 100% working machines and need breaks/time to think and things tend to go wrong at some stage etc. But if they had everything plannen already and the correct system set-up to transport the block from machine to machine/work space, then we are talking 2-3 hours, and to a good accuracy and finish.

By that comparison, there is NO WAY a copper tool wielding, 20 man team is completing a rock in one day. The more I think about it, the more I'm like 'not a chance'. I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the established 'one block every 150 seconds' figure lol.

reply to post by DazDaKing


wow man...you really did some math there

I guess perhaps in conclusion, we can safely assume...it wasn't all that fun...building the Great Pyramid



Nothing to add to your calculus...it remains a mystery to me.