Nelson Mandela has died

DZAG Wright
How many of you "patriots" proudly proclaim that you are armed and prepared to battle an oppressive government?

Gotcha don't I?

LOL...just drop the front and admit you hate Madoba because he's black. I mean there's no other way to spin this right? You ALL yell how you will fight the oppressive American government, but when a man does it...because he's black you declare him a POS.

LOL...

blah blah - all you can spout is the racist card.

Mandala was a communist, supported communists. He created the terrorist arm of the African Natl Congress, the Spear of the Nation. Mandela and his wife supported necklacing, essentially slowly burning people to death.....by "peoples courts". Thousands of blacks and whites have died essentially because they were thought to have supported Apartheid.

He even sang about killing whites:



Mandela hasn't brought peace to South Africa, all he is done is start the killing of white farmers in that country. (Oh that is right, they are all Apartheid - sure) Also, did he bring down Apartheid? I think it had more to do with external pressure on that government.....and what condition is South Africa in at this moment? Highest crime rate in the world outside of a war zone, highest infant mortality, life expectancy index fell from above 70 yrs to 48 - awesome job.

This is what happens when communists take over, everything gets ruined. I could care less that Mandela was black, personally I wish all communists were taking a dirt nap.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


goodbye

Again????

Spider879

bobs_uruncle

Spider879

bobs_uruncle

DZAG Wright

bobs_uruncle

FlyersFan
His life was a hardship but also inspirational for many.
He's been sick a long while now. And he had to put up with his ex-wife and her antics.
He's earned his rest. He's in a better place.

Well, I guess if one was a murdering satanist cum marxist and general IMF/World Bank/UN TOOL, HELL might be a "better place." What did George Burns say, to paraphrase I think it was, "I don't want to go to heaven, it would be boring, all my friends are in hell."

People die. The government will be happy when I am dead (as long as they can intercept the evidence I hold). I'm glad madela's dead, didn't come soon enough. I am so ef'ing tired of this mass media promoted bizzarro world where wrong is right and terrorists are heroes, and an honest man is kicked in the teeth while the scam artists in government, stocks and international banking steal everything, even if it's nailed down.

Cheers - Dave

edit on 12/5.2013 by bobs_uruncle because: (no reason given)

So was apartheid right? How many Africans died as a result of it?

Where you from, you ever lived in SA? No apartheid was not right and when I was there (1986-1990) all those laws were going away and many had been removed prior to 1986, change was happening. We had other races living right next door in a predominantly Dutch area (I'm not Dutch, it was just a nice house I had). Mandela was a rabid dog, he sang about killing whites. Now tell me that's not racist, mmmm, k? His singing along "kill the boer" inspired a generation of farm murders, the beginnings of genocide much like Zimbabwe.

On to your question concerning the number of deaths... MOST politically motivated deaths were based on ACTS OF TERRORISM by the ANC, AGAINST THEIR OWN COMMUNITIES! Like I told some other clown, DO THE RESEARCH, it works better when you have an informed opinion based on FACTS, no mass media BS.

Cheers - Dave

edit on 12/6.2013 by bobs_uruncle because: (no reason given)

I bet you top dollars you can't back that up about him singing about killing Whites where are the policies he implemented or set in place of taking over White farms part of the criticism of him was he did no such thing! ..and do you know what co and tell pro is..?? yes that's infiltrators and informants into the movement and no he never ordered people killed while he was behind bars as a matter of fact he up-breaded others in the movement for doing just that so stop lying on the dead.

edit on 6-12-2013 by Spider879 because: (no reason given)

I think someone already answered the song about "kill the farmer, kill the boer" so I don't really have to answer that. The white guys however are his comrades in arms that helped smooth the road for him and organize funding.

As far as anything else goes, DO THE RESEARCH. I don't want to hold you hand and spoon feed the information to you, find it out for yourself because you wouldn't believe me anyway until you found it all yourself. I know a lot about the past and present South African situation, I still have friends there. I lived there for four years in the 80's and I worked the SADF, Armscor and CI, sometimes directly, but primarily through a military contractor. I had walk-on access to every military base and border installation from north of Jan Kempdorp to Komatipoort and a few to the south, and was a project manager/R&D engineer on a few black op and special weapons programs, so try to imagine my security clearances, especially since I reported to the Chief of CI. Imagine how much you can know when you are not compartmentalized.

So when I talk about South Africa, I am talking from a position of direct up close and personal in-your-face experience. Like I said in another post, yeah I have witnessed a necklacing, I have seen the aftermath of people skinned alive and then disemboweled and worse. So, if you haven't walked the walk, at least do the research and find out what is real and what is simply politically motivated fantasy.

BTW, I treat people all the same until they prove to me I should treat them otherwise. I have no prejudices, except maybe for stupid people. You know the type, the ones that DON'T DO THE RESEARCH and then base their opinions on MSM BS, political hype and/or information from people that are 3 or more times removed from the actual event in question. That being said, I never met mandela personally but I worked for people that knew him and had direct contact with him, both political and military personnel. I also researched a lot of what he admitted to in court and there was corroborating evidence of his killing, directly or indirectly, innocent soft targets as well as political/military targets. Most of this information is on the internet and if you take a little time, when you're done, you will probably give your head a shake when you realize how much the government and the mainstream media have both lied to you.

But as I said, you need (as well as all the rest of the people out there singing this terrorist's praises) to find this out for yourself. Nothing is what it seems.

Cheers - Dave

You know for all you GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH!!..DON'T THREAD ON ME..OUT OF MY COLD DEAD HAND TYPES Mandela singing kill di wy people while looking very uncomfortable and not at all enthusiastic doing so is actually kinda tame and that's why he is a great man...for rest assured I could not promise not to rise above my baser nature if I were him...

“I am not a saint, unless you think of a saint as a sinner who keeps on trying.”
― Nelson Mandela

I know I am a lesser human being, because I believe I am less capable of that kind of forgiveness and restraint...thank whatever God/gods/goddess you worship I was not him.

edit on 6-12-2013 by Spider879 because: (no reason given)

Did you do the research yet? Otherwise this is pointless. I acknowledge everyone has a right to their opinion ;-)

Cheers - Dave

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


He sure did grate up SA and invite reverse apartheid upon whites. You're right.

0bserver1
reply to post by bobs_uruncle

 

Most of us don't know these stories it's because ,or it looks like Msm doesn't show them to the world. .
But slavery can't be tolerated anymore you have to admit that everyone has the right to live equally in this world.
I know that's wishful thinking and will take millennia to archive.
I read some of your harsh statement ,but I can't judge of what you'd experienced over there and have seen all of that I can assume that hatred grows against the grotesques of humanity that have taken place in that time period,only have lead to more hatred.

It seems that the evilness that covers mankind
For ages never stop only if we could forgive the past and al the wrongdoings we may find peace but that I think will be a long way to go

There will be no chance at equality in this world until the playing field is leveled, by which I mean that any politician or member of the "money power" that has committed crimes against humanity are tried, hopefully found guilty and hung, and hopefully as a society we don't make the same mistakes again. I am not harsh, I am a realist.

I agree, slavery of any kind is unjust and should not be tolerated. You might want to read the UN Treaty on the Abolition of Slavery, it gives some insight into what governments think of slavery. However, since we are all debt slaves to the IMF/Rothchilds/Banking Cartels and levered by legislated extortion by governments, does that mean that maybe we should pull a mandela and start running around arbitrarily killing innocent people? No, I don't think so and anyway, it's better to be selective and not use the shotgun approach. Mandela and the ANC used a shotgun approach. Actually governments work that way as well, they just call those other people in their adventures in legalized assassination, acceptable losses and collateral damage, and like just like terrorists, governments from my experience and research do not shy away from taking out an entire 747 to get one person.

And yes, the MSM rarely tells the truth, it's not news, it's entertainment and propaganda. No one is going to find he whole truth listening to the mainstream "entertainews." BTW, I don't hate, I am disappointed that people don't sit down and at least do the research before formulating an opinion. This mandela crap, vigils, tributes and all the other BS is an example of delusional people in a dystopian and dysfunctional society not doing the research, they just lap up the spoon-fed garbage from the mainstream media.

Back on topic, trying to equate mandela with a respectable and honorable statesman, or even a decent human, would be like trying to pick up a turd from the clean end.

Cheers - Dave

reply to post by AngryCymraeg


He would be referring to the blacks in SA, that will probably be necklacing many innocent whites, policemen, and whoever disagrees with them for the next week or so. All in the name of "great mandela".

What would I have done, do you want details on a strategic plan to take down a government, bloodlessly? I have one and at the time (80's) I had access to everything I needed and the technical knowledge to put it all together. Part of my job was developing military strategy to see if I could circumvent my own systems, but I often played in other directions.

On the balance, I agree, racism is wrong, slavery is wrong, apartheid was wrong. You seem to be confusing two different things, or possibly deliberately divergent in your approach. I was talking about mandela, he's was a terrorist, not an ef'ing saint. When did we start glorifying terrorists, you know, the people who kill soft targets like women and children and old folks to illegally, immorally and unethically achieve a political or economic advantage?

I never said apartheid was a good thing. It wasn't right, but it was changing in SA when I was there, and even before that. I have a lot of respect for activists which brings me to Rosa Parks. She didn't kill people, she didn't use terrorism, she didn't make bombs, she took a stand, organized, used her brain and fought against an oppressive, racist, prejudiced government, but that's the US and a very short 58 years ago. I have no respect for terrorists like mandela.

We all have opinions, some are based on nothing but a feeling, some are based on the crap and propaganda the government dolls out, some are based on peer pressure and some, like mine are based on experience and a lot of research. So, do the research. I am perfectly willing to rationally debate anyone on mandela but don't go side issues. It doesn't matter why he killed people, it matters THAT he killed people.

Cheers - Dave

reply to post by bobs_uruncle


Pretty much exactly why Mandela should not be praised. The left loves to idolize terrorists. Anyone that kills innocent people to achieve their goals are not good people. The ends do NOT justify the means, perhaps some of those innocents would have grown into a leader that could have united SA and made it a stable country. Instead of inciting violence against anyone suspected of supporting apartheid. I fear that in the next few days and weeks we are going to hear of killings in SA, but from non mainstream sources.

Nelson Mandela was a great statesman and human.
He deserves the honor that the world gives him now.
I believe his funeral will be as charged emotionally as that of John Paul 2. Surpassing national, racial and religious boundaries.

The events leading up to South African elections,was it messy yes! everyone had something to lose or fear,
While Gandhi and MLK did things differently, yes it worked as long as only non whites bleed and they could gain sympathy from some, white folks can bleed non whites and it will be seen as manifest destiny or a civilizing mission, if one do not do the Christian thing turning the other cheek but turn the guns in the other direction then we have cries terrorist,murderers and savages,news flash no one likes to bleed I respect MLK and there is something to be said for peaceful change but I also respect Malcolm X ..By Any Means Necessary!! sorry I was a military man for a big chunk of my life, they don't teach that turn the other cheek thingy in boot camp.

The man if not anything put a damper on the simmering anger of the masses, instead of lining up those on the opposition on a wall and shoot them..Truth and Reconciliation worked instead.

k

2012newstart
Nelson Mandela was a great statesman and human.
He deserves the honor that the world gives him now.
I believe his funeral will be as charged emotionally as that of John Paul 2. Surpassing national, racial and religious boundaries.

Mandela wasn't in the same leauge as Ghandi.

Would Christ Jesus approve of Mandela?

reply to post by kimish


Mandela is most likely burning in hell.

reply to post by bobs_uruncle


I believe you are confusing things. For one the average person has absolutely no training in bloodless takeovers. For a secong point, you think extremely highly of yourself assuming you would be able to rise above hatred, anger and wanting revenge for a lifetime of atrocities commited on you, those you love, and anyone that looks like you.

No one is saying his early life should be praised. If you honestly put yourself in his shoes it should be understood. Probably 99 percent of men around the world would give in to hatred, anger and revenge in that situation most would be to cowardly to act. Those feelings are powerful and can lead anyone to horrible actions.

Nelson Madela gave in but what makes him remarkable is finding the strength and capacity for love and forgiveness. He gave forgiveness completely and helped by doing his best to guide his nation that route. Ultimately his message was heard around the world.

All humans have faults, the ability and strength to rise above separates him from the common man. His actions while young do not deserve praise but they do enforce why he is deserving of praise. That was a LOT of hatred and anger through a lifetime, probably too much for almost anyone else to overcome yet he did.

He deserves praise and the forgiveness he offered everyone else.

CenTheBear
reply to post by bobs_uruncle

 

Pretty much exactly why Mandela should not be praised. The left loves to idolize terrorists. Anyone that kills innocent people to achieve their goals are not good people. The ends do NOT justify the means, perhaps some of those innocents would have grown into a leader that could have united SA and made it a stable country. Instead of inciting violence against anyone suspected of supporting apartheid. I fear that in the next few days and weeks we are going to hear of killings in SA, but from non mainstream sources.

I'm firmly on the left but I don't idolise terrorists. What I think about the IRA is totally unprintable.

kimish
...
Would Christ Jesus approve of Mandela?

Why not? Mandela stood up to the people that killed his people not to forget the almost half a decade of oppression and segregation he freed his people from (or at least played a major role). Between the two groups of people involved during those historic years, who do you think would get Jesus' stamp of approval?!

CenTheBear
...
Mandela is most likely burning in hell.

Based on what?



This thread highlighted many facts and disproved many myths - and it contains but a drop of the information available... Yet, the ignorant cannot be bothered to read.
Is this the perfect opportunity to quote Mark Twain? I think it is...

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.

“Nobody's perfect. We're all just one step up from the beasts and one step down from the angels.”
― Jeannette Walls, Half Broke Horses

Love him, hate him, he tried to make positive changes and in part, I think he succeeded.

reply to post by Gemwolf


he created a racist, terrorist organization that is destroying South Africa.

Bravo Mandela, bravo.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


I'm not going to condemn him or praise him, I'll let others who really knew him and have studied his lifes work do that. He did great things and achieved greatness, certainly. So have many so he's in their company. Nobody's prefect.
I will say that he falls short of Gandhi, though. And Mother Theresa when it comes to humanitarianism.
That's not a slight, those people were just incredible.
I don't get those who feel the need to attack him, likewise I've seen some pretty vile people on other boards praise him as huge influences in their lives and as the greatest man in history and that also is a slap at him. They probably have no clue as to what he did and can't see past the very simplest aspect of his achievements.
His wife, though, what a mess.

MidnightTide
...
he created a racist, terrorist organization that is destroying South Africa.

Bravo Mandela, bravo.

No he didn't. Those that took over from him abused (and still are abusing) their power to satisfy their greed. Absolute power corrupts absolutely - and that is what is destroying South Africa. Where Mandela served the people, those that now fill the position(s) serve only themselves. People like Malema are the exact opposite of what Mandela was...

Why should Mandela be "crucified" when those that try to follow in his footsteps as leaders of an organization are scum? Perhaps you could judge Mandela for what he did for people and not what other people from the same political affiliations are doing?