Ravenna Revisited - The Portage County Police UFO Chase.

Bigburgh

Im2keul
here is another from the mid 90's where I grew up.

Interesting no doubt

Your post is incomplete it appears..

But then I noticed your avatar and mood with location! It all makes sense..!!!

Silly me ,my apologies. The link I put up is an audio of the local police around the Youngstown area of Ohio. I was living in Charlotte at the time, and the wife and I happen to catch it on a tv program. It has become known as the Trumbull county incident.

Nothing good ever happened when I lived there (as far as sightings), but I thought it was kinda cool since I went to high scool with a few of the police officers involved.

Outstanding effort again, Karl. I enjoy your avalanche-of-evidence style of presentation. Not many debunkers showing up for this one. Very interesting case and, equally important, a stark view of the government's attempts to bury a sighting and ruin lives and careers in the process. Lesson being: if you see a ufo, don't bother the air force for answers. Even if they know, they won't tell you.

reply to post by karl 12


I have seen plenty of normal aircraft in flight to have the discernment, to recognize a peculiar one. I actually live under the flight path of this chased object, though I have only lived here for 18 years. When i was 13, with my brother, we witnessed a brilliant white object that had a halo of bright cyan. It stayed relatively low to the ground, made zero sound. We watched it for 45 minutes. It would hover, then dart, come to a sudden complete stop, hover. At one point it seemed very close, as it seemed to, in a scanner method, light my field with its bright cyan light. My brother remarked, as he was looking at me when it happened, "You looked like an X-ray skeleton." Kinda like when you shine a flashlight thought your hand. When it finally moved pretty far west, it blinked and disappeared.
Last year, 15 years from the last sighting. I was in Ravenna at a party. I was in progress of leaving, half in my car. When the biggest weird egg or sphere shaped bubble started to glow. It was a pale blue, with a central yellow gradient. As it grew brighter, the shapes constraints faded leaving just an ora with a mars red dot in the middle. Mars was supposed to be out and really bright that night. So not moving at first, I thought my sighting was over. Until, it moved straight towards the field I was standing in. I could the tell that the red was not solid and was more prismatic. It seemed to be bobbing, like a buoy in water. At that point, I ran back inside and got some of my friends. Luckily for my own validation, one was in the military and aircraft identification was a major part of his role. His words where "That is not one of ours or one I've ever seen.". The show ended with the object moving behind the trees.
The reason I posted this now, is because I never knew of this 1966 story. A lot of of people have UFO stories and I usually take them half serious. Being that both my stories occur under the flight path of this 1966 story, I figured it to be relevant to reply. I left my crop circle finding out, that relates to the first story. It is not very exiting.

reply to post by karl 12


Good job presenting an oldy... but goody.

The projection seen off the top of the object reminds me of the 1950's Oregon photos and the similar object seen in Europe... a saucer with a sloping projection off the "rear." It does make one think of hardware.

As time goes on people forget the impact these things had on the mid 20th century. People who say "there's no proof" are simply ignorant of the myriad of carefully documented cases from meticulous, scientifically minded researchers.

What they are remains a mystery... but it's a fact they were occasionally present (and still might be).

So whether tulpas formed from humanities common consciousness, Nazi or black budget super tech, dimensional and/or stellar travelers, or simply beyond our ability to form a hypothesis as yet, they are a valid enigma.

reply to post by karl 12
[Karl 12, Thanks for the post. I am a big fan of this subject.
In the interest of accuracy please note at about 3 minutes into the video the US Air Force Officer is out of uniform.
His decorations are on the wrong side of his uniform.]

Urantia1111
Lesson being: if you see a ufo, don't bother the air force for answers. Even if they know, they won't tell you.

Why would they? They only want to keep two things secret: what they know, and what they don't know.

Really, I think if anything, this case illustrates how just foolish and hopeful people used to be about getting an "answer" about this kind of stuff, and how bad they were (as always) at investigating it. The whole endeavor seems to be confused and misguided.

I guess one thing that has kind of improved over the years is how people react to folks who report UFOs. Back in the day, you could be ridiculed or hounded out of your job. These days nobody knows or gives a crap.

Epic and wonderful thread Karl, I've read and reread about this case numerous times as I suspect did Speilberg as its clearly used in Close Encounters. I have to say I feel so sorry for those poor officers, men doing their duty and then labelled as stupid, disgusting.

How could anyone use Venus as a debunk in this particular case, Venus is merely a dot, not something you claim is 30 - 50ft across, yes a star would appear to follow and 'wait' if you got held up but they are describing something under control with individual movement and enormous size, could Police officers all be that stupid as to mistake a dot for all that.

I sincerely do not think so.

This sighting was carefully destroyed to make it go away, something the Airforce could not wash away with simple stuff and therefore trashed to the effect of the men's health and livelihood.

Great case given a fantastic spread by Karl......I for one believe what they saw and I very much doubt it was 'ours'.

Karl 12, another definitive case history of a nuts and bolts incident - surely there's a book in there !

One query in that you don't appear to put too much weight in your presentation into the photo of the object that was taken. Considering that the object captured confirms the descriptions given and defies the explanations proffered is there any reason for it not featuring more prominently - are there doubts as to its veracity ?

Bigburgh

As I was reading this. I called my dad whom use to be based at GPIA greater Pitt. With the 112 fighter wing. I remember he and a former Col. A very close family friend. Telling me of this event as a child. And that jets were scrambled.

Bigburgh, very interesting stuff mate and when it comes to the officers actually seeing the inbound jets, the police and civilian witnesses actually hearing the scramble confirmation over the radio and the account even being entered in the police dispatch radio log then I don't think it's too much of a stretch to believe that actual aircraft were scrambled that morning -despite the denial by the USAF.

Also very nice to hear the separate confirmation from your father and it really would be something to find that NBC news broadcast stating that Youngstown jet trainers flew near the object and heard a humming noise (which was also reported by officers on the ground) -would also love to hear more about this snippet and know if there was any gun camera footage captured of the object.

At the same time, Cramer and Whinnery, in the police station, heard what they believed to be the voice of a pilot, over the radio. "I'm going down for a closer look. . . . It's about 45 feet across, and it's trailing something "

As already suggested, maybe the scramble news reports were withdrawn by somebody somewhere and it wouldn't be the first time that news corporations (maybe in conjunction with U.S. intelligence agencies) have manipulated or suppressed UFO information.

NEWS MEDIA COMPLICITY AND THE TRUTH EMBARGO, with Terry Hansen

A mesmerizing account of his investigation into whether some of America's most influential news organizations, many having maintained close ties to the U.S. intelligence community, have willingly suppressed full and accurate news coverage of extraterrestrial related phenomena for a variety of "national-security" reasons. Hansen reveals the remarkable and persistent difference in UFO-related news coverage exhibited by local and national news organizations and reviews the history of censorship and propaganda during the twentieth century and the evidence for media-government collusion over the course of the half-century-long UFO controversy.

The Missing Times

Cheers.

ETeeTime

I might have to ask some of the long-time locals here if they ever witnessed it themselves that day.

ETeeTime would love to visit that route and I think it's fair to say that Ohio really has had more than its fair share of freaky UFO cases, if you hear anything from those long-time locals please feel free to post it here (if they're OK with that ).

ETeeTime

If I recall, and you may have mentioned it already, it inspired the UFO chase scene in Close Encounters of the Third Kind (remember the toll booth scene with "Ohio").

Yes mate, here's another relevant vid with some footage and it's a bloody great film!



Cheers.

reply to post by karl 12


Excellent presentation karl !

Thanks for reposting this very important case, your work and effort is much appreciated 8 )

"It went PSSSSSHHEW, straight up; and I mean when it went up, friend, it didn't play no games; it went straight up."

Police Officer Dale Spaur

That's an interesting quote indeed and reminds me of the O'Hare airport ufo because it was reported to have done about the same thing when it departed ...

According to this witness, nearby observers gasped as the object shot through the clouds at high velocity, leaving a clear blue hole in the cloud layer.

link - en.wikipedia.org...

Guess both objects were in a hurry to avoid being caught ?


Thanks again karl , cheers : )

The GUT

Sure venus is "loud" and can appear to move when traveling twisting routes. But the details given by the participants are very consistent and absolutely seem to suggest a lower-flying anomaly with distinguishing characteristics. The humming noise especially of note imo.

Gut Ho ho hola mate and sorry about the delay in a response (Christmas and all that) -the detailed descriptions from the witnesses certainly do seem to suggest a low flying anomaly with distinguishing characteristics (or a 'clearly defined metallic object maneuvering at very low altitudes' as Deputy Spaur put it) and it really does seem to me a great shame that the official conclusion was not revised to 'a strong unidentified' as the scientists involved thought it should.

Also thought Hynek's comments about Quintanilla 'disregarding any evidence that was counter to his hypothesis' sounded a bit familiar and I suppose it could be argued that that way of thinking is the direct opposite of true, open minded, objective science (the result being that many of the Bluebook explanations from that era are bordering on the criminally negligent IMHO).

Also thought you'd pick up on the humming noise mate and it's certainly a very intriguing aspect -was a bit surprised to see this case wasn't included in the catalog below but it does do a good job of listing many other similar case examples out there from different countries (some with quite similar object descriptions).


UFO Sound - Hum

The GUT

I also see some intriguing similarities with Cash-Landrum.

Good call there -as already mentioned the Red Bluff and Exeter cases also have a few parallels (one being police officers nearly shooting at the UFOs) and the report below from one month earlier in Michigan also sounds very similar -right down to the antenna.

Michigan at the Millennium: Crowds turn out to chase UFOs near Milan

After a few days of sighting reports by civilians, on March 17 two Washtenaw County Sheriff's deputies, Sgt. Neil Schneider and Deputy David Fitzpatrick, said they saw three or four red, white and green circular objects oscillating and glowing near Milan about 4 a.m.

They called Willow Run Run Airport officials but radar could not confirm the report.

Two more Washtenaw deputies, Buford Bushroe and John Foster, chased the same types of objects three days later. Livingston and Monroe County residents also reported seeing the objects.

The Detroit News carried the police chase story and a drawing of a quilted football-like UFO with lights, dome and antennae.

When Dexter Patrolman Robert Huniwell saw the object at 9:30 p.m. at Quigly and Brand, Washtenaw County Sheriff Douglas Harvey ordered all available deputies to the scene. Six patrol cars, two men in each, and three detectives converged on the area. They chased the flying object along Island Lake Road without catching it.

Link / Thread

Cheers.

Zcustosmorum

have to say the thing that always strikes me with this is the ridicule factor and how many people got put off even reporting their own sightings.

Probably got the CIA to thank for encouraging that mate and there's some revealing comments made at the beginning of this video about how 'ridicule' and precision propaganda techniques were used so the UFO subject would be portrayed in a negative light thereby making people reluctant to report their experiences.

CIA Director Admiral Roscoe Hillenkoetter probably also had it right on the money when he made this statement in 1960:

“Behind the scenes, high-ranking Air Force officers are soberly concerned about UFOs. But through official secrecy and ridicule, many citizens are led to believe that unknown flying objects are nonsense.”

Former CIA Director, Roscoe Hillenkoetter, public statement, 1960.

Statements

roadgravel

Hard to believe how these type of events can force men to have to change their lives.

Roadgravel, certainly is my friend although it really wouldn't be the first or last time it's happened -regarding the cover up, I don't know where he got his info from but Joseph Capp does make some interesting claims here about physical trace evidence:

The County Sheriff of Portage, PA, was even instructed to hide evidence including soil samples of the actual landing site from the officer, the public, and even Project Blue Book.

Link

Also, despite the Ravenna incident being 'instrumental' in the formation of the 1966 U.S. Congressional UFO hearings and it being 'one of the cases that contributed to the creation of the Condon Committee' in the first place there are some intriguing claims below about how Dr Condon never even turned the case over to his staff.

Condon, a scientist, was in charge of a UFO study conducted by the University of Colorado under the sponsorship of the Air Force. Springs, Colorado, as the site of the next grid point to be dealt with.

"Years later, I learned to my astonishment that he never turned over the case to his staff, and it gathered dust in his personal files," Hall said.

And so when the Air Force turned the Colorado report over to Congress, the Ohio-to-Conway incident wasn't mentioned.

link

Cheers!

Im2keul

The link I put up is an audio of the local police around the Youngstown area of Ohio. I was living in Charlotte at the time, and the wife and I happen to catch it on a tv program. It has become known as the Trumbull county incident.

Im2keul, here we go - there's also a good recent(ish) documentary on the case here with new witness interviews and a timeline of events.

Officers described the UFO as a huge, brightly luminescent object, with multicolored pulsating lights, and lit up the sky, and lit up the ground below it in an erie red light, as if it were daylight. According to officers and residents, the object made no noise, and was seen hovering above houses, and disturbingly low to the ground.

Have no idea what the object was but I think debunker James Mcgaha's explanation that all the separately located police officers were seeing were just 'twinkling stars' is an absolute joke.


The Trumbull County, Ohio UFO Incident of December 14, 1994


Also another extremely interesting police chase radar/visual UFO case here which occurred 9 months before Trumbull County in Holland, Michigan -don't know what that object was either but the incident was described as 'the hottest case in the country' and the UFO gave returns four times bigger than a commercial aircraft and ascended vertically at a speed of around 1000mph in 15 seconds before separating into 3 different objects.

Cheers.

reply to post by Urantia1111


Urantia, appreciate the post and there's some more details about this case (and USAF reaction to it) in the pages below, I know if I saw a UFO I certainly wouldn't bother them for answers -especially after reading some of their official explanations over the years.

link

whatwasthat

Karl 12, Thanks for the post. I am a big fan of this subject.
In the interest of accuracy please note at about 3 minutes into the video the US Air Force Officer is out of uniform.
His decorations are on the wrong side of his uniform.

Whatwasthat, well spotted mate -don't know if it's a reverse image of the Major but if you're a fan of the subject then this thread also gives more examples of his debunking antics (and also contains a pretty damning quote from Bluebook's Chief Scientific Consultant).

"During Air Force Major Hector Quintanilla's tenure as Blue Book's director, the flag of the utter nonsense school was flying at its highest on the mast".

Dr J Allen Hynek, Chief Scientific Consultant for Air Force Investigations of UFOs from 1948 until 1969

The UFO Debunkery of Major Hector Quintanilla.

Cheers.

reply to post by karl 12

[re: Major Quintanilla's picture in Class A uniform

Look at the buttons of his jacket, they at attached on the wrong side. It is definitely a mirror image. ]

originally posted by: karl 12

link

Thanks for posting that pdf document, I hadn't seen that before.

I have to say, the bogus overlyskeptical theorys presented were entertaining but I really got a good laugh when I saw on the last pages Condon and Klass used as source information. lol

Doesn't get much funnier than that really ; )


Also ...

ALL the skeptical tomfoolery is totally debunked by the picture alone ...


Chief Buchert's photo - Digitally enhanced by Paul Hynek

Link - www.clevescene.com...



Thanks again karl .... this is one of the best UFO threads on ATS.

Cheers

originally posted by: easynow

I have to say, the bogus overlyskeptical theorys presented were entertaining but I really got a good laugh when I saw on the last pages Condon and Klass used as source information. lol

Always thought Klass was a complete joke mate and some of his antics involved with UFO incidents like Val Johnson, Cash Landrum, Lonnie Zamora, Exeter, SAC Base Flyovers etc. really do raise serious questions about his objectivity and active agenda- as for Condon it seems he even hid the 'thick investigation report' on Ravenna from his own staff on the (publicly funded) Colorado University Committee - you really couldn't make it up if you tried.

"I personally hand-carried and delivered to Dr. Condon a thick investigation report on the April 17, 1966, Portage County, Ohio, case prepared by William Weitzel. Police in several different jurisdictions had chased a low-level structured object that was emitting a beam of light down to the road.

"Years later, I learned to my astonishment that he never turned over the case to his staff, and it gathered dust in his personal files," Hall said.

originally posted by: easynow

Doesn't get much funnier than that really ; )

No, no it doesn't mate.

Forget the fact that several police officers in several patrol cars pursued the 'object'' over 86 miles with 'hundreds of civilians in two states' witnessing it;

forget the high pitched buzzing sound (or PSSSSSHHEW noise) the 'object' was reported to have made on vertical / horizontal acceleration;

forget the fact that police officers testified the object was 'as big as a house, looked quite solid and could easily settle on the car squashing it like an egg';

forget all the police accounts of the UFO putting out a light beam which illuminated the area with an 'intense light' similar to that of a welder's torch which was so bright they could have driven without their head lights on;

forget police reports of the object pacing and accelerating away from the patrol cars then coming down near a bridge and waiting for them to catch up and being '50 feet above a road and moving from side to side';

forget the similarity of all the object descriptions from separately located police officers and all the different witness reports stating that U.S. Military aircraft were sent up to intercept the UFO;

forget the original astronomer who proposed the Venus explanation completely rejected it after actually looking into the case or that the Major in charge (after only a five minute investigation) still tried to (ab)use it by coupling it with a satellite that wasn't even visible in the sky at the time.

Forget all that and to me it's still quite a stretch to believe that all this commotion was caused by a planet 26 million miles away.

originally posted by: easynow

Also ...

ALL the skeptical tomfoolery is totally debunked by the picture alone ...


Chief Buchert's photo - Digitally enhanced by Paul Hynek

Link - www.clevescene.com...

Great post mate and I couldn't really find out any info about that photograph other than it was taken around the same time as the initial sighting 18 miles northwest of the original location and that the USAF instructed the police officer not to release it to the public (also interesting footnote that it was digitally enhanced by Dr J. Allen Hynek's son) - says in one of the articles that Chief Buchert 'lost 20 pounds in 3 days' after the incident due to the media harassment, that he saw something but didn't know what it was and 'would rather not talk about it' - who can blame the guy considering what happened to everyone else?

Great, great work sourcing this article by the way, seems even Oberg and notorious UFO cynic Robert Sheaffer have jumped on the Venus bandwagon - Dr Hynek's comments about Major Quintanilla 'disregarding any evidence that was counter to his hypothesis' springs to mind.

Full

Full

originally posted by: easynow

Thanks again karl .... this is one of the best UFO threads on ATS.

Don't know about the thread my friend but it's certainly up there as one of the most interesting UFO cases IMHO - let's also not forget you were the first one to bring it to the ATS forum and most of us (including me) had never even heard about it before you started researching it - top job!


*Above BlueBook* - Ohio UFO Chase , Portage County April 17, 1966


Cheers.

Now this is what you call an informative thread!

More please...

originally posted by: TiedDestructor

Now this is what you call an informative thread!

TiedDestructor, thanks mate although as already mentioned a lot of the news articles and info about this case were already sourced in Easynow's thread linked in the post above.

When it comes to numerous separately located Police UFO witnesses like in this case there's also a relevant article below taken from PoliceUFO.com (which has unfortunately been taken offline ) which deals with the 'credibility and reliability' of officers highly trained and experienced in reporting what they see - it also makes mention of this 1975 FBI briefing document from Project Bluebook's Dr J. Allen Hynek (bold italics)


Saved article:

The Police Officer UFO Witness


Why is the police officer considered a special witness to UFOs? Why are police officers important to the investigation of UFOs?

Nowhere else in the UFO phenomenon is more attention given than to that of the UFO witness. The witness lies at the core of the phenomena, if indeed it isn’t the core itself.
In classic UFOlogy the witness is the sole source of data on the topic, providing the raw descriptions of sightings and experiences. Of all the studies and literature on the topic of UFOs, no subject dominates like reports from witnesses. Not all detailed witness reports are considered worthwhile however. More often than not the weight of the report will rest upon the credibility of the witness and the reliability of the witness to observe. Enter the police.

This section provides a review of what makes the officer such a critical observer at the core of UFO phenomenon, an introduction to the police witness/sighting saga, and touches on what progress has been made in providing a system to afford the officer-witness to come forward in order to contribute to the subject. As good a place to start as any, the witness experience provides a practical foundation on which to gradually expand.



1. THE WITNESS PROFILE

It cannot be stressed enough that police rank as amongst the highest of credible and reliable witnesses in the UFO field, in literature being compared to astronauts, pilots, and engineer-scientists. Dr J Allen Hynek, in his 1975 FBI briefing, goes so far as to suggest his belief that police are the best witnesses, when he states:

“Experience definitely shows that the best reports, those with the greatest information content, come from technically trained, professional people, especially law enforcement personnel.”

Bill Birnes, chief editor of UFO Magazine, makes the case explicitly in the television show “UFO Hunters – Cops vs UFOs”, that “Police officers are the most credible witnesses who are trained to observed.”

In terms of rating our witness sources, when we talk of the ‘police witness’ we are profiling. Like law enforcement agencies, UFOlogist have long known the importance of witness profiling, but reports, reviews and catalogues on the subject are difficult to obtain because of the security involved in protecting the witness.

However the casual assertion that police are the best UFO witnesses has become so prevalent that it has almost assumed a sense of cliché amongst the UFO research community. Questions and discussion do arise, and since the police witness is so critical to our inquiry, it seems fitting to elaborate on those two basic assumptions: That the police officer is credible, and that the police officer is a reliable observer.



2. Credibility

The public will admit the obvious authority that comes with the uniform, and also in a court of law. Many have argued that should the UFO debate ever make it to a fair court of law, the issue would have been resolved long ago. There are obviously those who do not agree that authority in itself is enough to consider the officer to be a credible witness.

What comes with the authority however, is a deep requirement for responsibility and accountability. Experienced officers have a lot to loose in coming forth with their amazing stories, or as Hynek calls, “credible people with incredible stories”, in the eye of the public, professionally and in the eyes their peers. We have mentioned earlier the culture of policing in general, and so it is not lightly that the officer makes a report. Outside of formal research, this credibility quickly comes into question. Bill Birnes, in the same UFO Hunters episode, makes the case that, "These are the people whose eyewitness testimony we trust is credible, 'except' when it comes to UFOs, and that's what's so frightening to me."

And yet their stories continue to go on record, and this in itself leads one to consider that something extraordinary is going on. What profound and very real experiences are these officers having?

And it is for this reason more than any other, one might ultimately confess, that the officer does, albeit in general, make a rather credible witness.



3.The Reliable Observer

Does the officer make a good UFO observer? The police officer is definitely a trainer observer, and many police can rightly claim also to be experienced observers, so we are half way there. But does this qualify the officer as the best observer, and more remarkably, a good observer of unusual aerial phenomena? The answer is not straightforward.

We must take into account the experience of the particular officer. For example an officer with many years of night surveillance, maybe near an airport, or perhaps even a previous history in avionics, would certainly make the case for a good UFO observer.

The public has not considered all the avenues, if it has assumed that the officer is not a special observer of unusual aerial phenomena. There is another characteristic of the officer that makes the case for a strong observer. When Hynek was referring to his list of good observers, including law enforcement personnel, the point he was making was that the experienced professional mind was most capable of articulating the observation in detail. And therefore, it is the ability and experience of the officer to reliably report the observation that makes the reliable observer.

There is, further, yet another important aspect that must be considered. If by “reliable observer” we were to interpret that the officer is in a position that is fortunate for the observation of UFO phenomena, then this too clearly suits our nocturnal police patrols, or fits the bill, one might say. It must be acknowledged that the night-shift officer on the beat is certainly at a statistical advantage for witnessing strange nocturnal happenings.


Thread - International Police UFO Reports

Also, I couldn't find another pdf copy of William B. Weitzel's investigative report on this case anywhere else on the web so if anyone is in a position to download and save it for future research then it certainly would be appreciated (things really do have a habit of disappearing off the internet these days).


Into the Middle Of Hell (PDF File)


Cheers!