Precession of the equinox?

Utnapisjtim
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

 

The old Hebrews had a tendency to add one or take one away. Especially with calendars and the ever elusive Name of God. Just saying.

Very true, the Hebrews made many deviations from they're established Law and traditions since Israel's national birth at the exodus. They've spawned the Cabalah, Zohar, Talmud, the many psuedopigrapha, LXX, the Pharisees, Sudducees, Essenes, Hassidim, and the foundation of Theosophy. But, the one continuous unadulterated sequence of writings to come from the Jews was the Old Testament which was continued through the New Testament.

From Moses to John, all writers of the scriptures used the same meter. No other Jewish book or psuedopigrapha that claims to be God inspired uses the meter found in the original Bible. So, what I see from the Hewbrews is cultural decay from a state of truth.

BlueMule
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

 

Where did you find that translation?

Its common knowledge in Christianity and Judaism that " bene ha elohim" are the Sons of God...meaning the beings God created before man. Those would be angels. Technically, all angels are sons of God as identified in the Book of Job, but the "bene ha elohim" of Genesis 6 traveled to the physical realm from the spirit realm to procreate with man, against God's will. These where called "nephilim", the 'mighty' or 'giant ones'.

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest


All quotes in NT are from LXX. Sheds light on the stoning of st. Stephanus. The LXX is the oldest surviving document related to the Tanakh or OT, all though not exactly in the Catholic and Protestant canons we know today.

reply to post by Utnapisjtim


True and LXX is especially helpful in understanding Hebrew idioms from a Gentile perspective, but, LXX is not the original Torah, it has various additions and mistranslations, and most importantly, it is not metered. Its no better or worse than any modern translation, like KJV or NAS, but the Masoretic texts and original New Testament are unique.

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest


The part of Sumerian lore you indirectly refer to here concerns the Anunnaki, since Genesis is basically a short synopsis-styled file on current affairs in the religious departments in the area, retold in Hebrew and styled in monotheism, spanning over several different genres like poetic songs with rythm and rhyme, classic myth and epics. The sons of God, later called the Nephilim in the bible, are the Anunnaki to me "the old, chtonic deities of fertility and the Underworld, headed by Anu. They later became judges of the Underworld. Often paired with Igigi." (See Sommerfeld 1985, 11-15 if you have access to a university library).

BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by Utnapisjtim

 

True and LXX is especially helpful in understanding Hebrew idioms from a Gentile perspective, but, LXX is not the original Torah, it has various additions and mistranslations, and most importantly, it is not metered. Its no better or worse than any modern translation, like KJV or NAS, but the Masoretic texts and original New Testament are unique.

Like I said LXX, though it is a translation from a variety of Aramaic and Hebrew dialects incorporated into earlier documents, but it is still the oldest OT there is. Most of modern translations rely on many and often quite recent copies of copied copies to make up the patchwork known as the Old Testament. Much the same can be said about NT. Patchwork of copies. Out of all the several thousand copies we have of NT texts, not a single pair is identical. They all differ from eachother. That's what makes this whole war so damn boring, for you can always throw up a quote to beat the same only in different translations. It's bloody annoying, but it's the way things are.

There are NO originals around. They have become dust long time ago.

BELIEVERpriest

BlueMule
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

 

Where did you find that translation?

Its common knowledge in Christianity and Judaism that " bene ha elohim" are the Sons of God...meaning the beings God created before man. Those would be angels. Technically, all angels are sons of God as identified in the Book of Job, but the "bene ha elohim" of Genesis 6 traveled to the physical realm from the spirit realm to procreate with man, against God's will. These where called "nephilim", the 'mighty' or 'giant ones'.

Sorry if this is off-topic, but am I to understand that the only difference between individual "bene ha elohim" is what they have done in the physical realm?

Do the ones that are in accord with Gods will comprise some sort of 'Divine Council'?

God presides in the great assembly; he renders judgment among the “gods”
-Psalm 82:1

reply to post by Utnapisjtim


I see the Sumerian and Biblical accounts as reports of events that actually took place. Both Flood and nephilim/annunaki are historical event IMO. I see the Sumerian side told as Enki/Satan's angle, and the Biblical side told as Elohim/Enlil's angle. Doesnt matter who told it first, but who is being honest about it.
The Anunaki and "bene ha Elohim" correspond. The "nephelim" are the offspring.

The Hebrew and Greek meter was a poetic tool used for memorization of scripture and a teaching tool for the illiterate. So, where the meter is found, original text is preserved, IMO. The fact that the Masoretic meter reflects numerical doctines like Daniel's 70th week, the 1,365 of Num 3, and the 364 years of the temple, AND mirrors the Greek meter is phenomenal. I think its too complicated to metrically translate LXX into Masoretic, while preserving translation, fluidity and doctorinal unity.

Its sad how forgotten the meter is, its a security encryption and a safeguard from forgery.

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest


I suspect this meter you refer to is what I call midraistic rhetoric a literary tradition I see reflected in much ancient Hebrew literature. However like I said the Bible is a patchwork, firstly in that it's a compilation of a variety of books belonging to different traditions and even languages, sects and nations.

How the Book of Job is probably the oldest book in the Bible and is written as an epic poem, much like Greek, Indian and Sumerian masterpieces. Genesis 1 is written in different dialect and belonging to a different school as that of Genesis 2 and is basically a psalm. As far as I remember Genesis 1 belongs to Israel, while Genesis 2 belongs to Judah. Either that or it's the other way around. The different books of the OT also reflect at times fundamentally different doctrines and politics which makes translating it as one piece impossible, without first saying God demands sacrifice just to turn the page and reading God hates sacrifice. This is the reason the Bible is littered with contradiction and haunted with dilemma.

It makes no sense to me, claiming stuff like how the Bible is the word of one voice. It's not. More like a river delta or an underlying stream with many ramifications pouring out from the belly of a hydra-headed Dragon (great for surfing). Then again, that's just me

reply to post by BlueMule


The "bene ha elohim" refer to angels in general. There is a divine council spoken of in the bible. It consists of the Trinity, the elect and the fallen, and Satan. Its more like a trial for Satan. The angels that were involved in human hybridization were fallen, and imprisoned somewhere inside the earth for their actions.

Do you think this has anything to do with the travelers from the Enochian Island?

reply to post by Utnapisjtim


I understand your stance. I choose to believe the Bible is the Word of God. Not only because of the meter, but there is a very supernatural side to it that has bled into my life from time to time. Not only does the meter bring unity to the texts, but it directly connects it to ancient calendars that have something to say about the very near future.

From my analysis so far, you should know better than to think that Im some Bible thumping fool, incapable of thinking outside of the box. Not to say that you ever called me a fool. I dont dismiss any "mythology". They all warn us that we are at the heart of an explosive conflict. I have yet to see any lack of harmony between an two portions of the bible.

BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by Utnapisjtim

 

I understand your stance. I choose to believe the Bible is the Word of God.

The Word to me is the fulfilled prophecy of the Messiah, "He who overcometh".

Not only because of the meter, but there is a very supernatural side to it that has bled into my life from time to time. Not only does the meter bring unity to the texts, but it directly connects it to ancient calendars that have something to say about the very near future.

The Prophecy is unfolding as we speak.

From my analysis so far, you should know better than to think that Im some Bible thumping fool, incapable of thinking outside of the box. Not to say that you ever called me a fool. I dont dismiss any "mythology". They all warn us that we are at the heart of an explosive conflict. I have yet to see any lack of harmony between an two portions of the bible.

But I don't see you as "a Bible thunping fool" at all. Being one meself I would be twice the fool calling you one. Please rise above petty insinuation and speculation on what I may or may not believe beyond factuality. That said, I find your research into this meter-thing quite amazing and I personally think you are onto something. But isn't it Peter who says "Gird up the loins of your mind", it's easy to get stuck. Not saying you are, but sometimes it can help to make up status and move on. What I said, I stand by as the truth, the Bible is a patchwork, the Hebrew and Greek mss are nowhere near as tailored and uniform as let's say KJV or NIV are. In Genesis 1 God creates HEaven first and then Earth, and animals before Adam. In the following chapters, God creates the Earth first and then Heaven, and Adam first and then the animals. This is because they are two different creation myths originating in two completely different traditions. And it doesn't stop there, the list of sources for the biblical bookes is vast. So cheer up, no need for bitter assaults

BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by BlueMule

 

The "bene ha elohim" refer to angels in general. There is a divine council spoken of in the bible. It consists of the Trinity, the elect and the fallen, and Satan. Its more like a trial for Satan. The angels that were involved in human hybridization were fallen, and imprisoned somewhere inside the earth for their actions.

Do you think this has anything to do with the travelers from the Enochian Island?

It's possible. There was a council going on there.

I've had many astounding mystical experiences ranging from ecstatic, unconditional Divine love and unity to horrible terror. Back in 2010 on the solstice lunar eclipse I experienced something that I interpret as 'taken up' to 'Heaven' and given a mission from God which I accomplished. But of course I made enemies in the process.

reply to post by Utnapisjtim


I must apologize for my last spiel. I am a recovering A-Hole, sometimes I eject passive-aggressive garbage.

With that said, I disagree with the conclusion that the Bible is a mash of sometimes contradictory tradtition. Take Gen 1:14 for example, no where else is there a hint of a lunar calendar in the bible, so why state that the moon was for the Holy Days when the Holy Days werent even instituted intill the Exodus? The answer: The moon is most likely what keeps our axis from shifting further, therefore, it is the moon that keeps the Holy Days in their seasons.

Also, Genesis never stated that earth was created in 6 days, but that it already existed for an undisclosed period of time, then it became desolate and was restored in 6 days. This pre- genesis civilization was angelic. Then Gen 2:4 introduces a summarization of creation to set the stage for the events leading up to the fall of Adam. We know this because Gen 2:4 openly states " These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were accomplished..."

Its when you analyze these aparent inconsistencies that the Bible teaches you the deepest secrets. Its all about learning how to follow the Bible's poetic style. Throw some of them at me and Ill do my best to interpret. All of my discoveries I have presented so far, are the result of my persuit of these "riddles".

reply to post by BlueMule


Interesting. Ive had experiences myself...of the entheogenic magnitude, about one sub-metonic cycle ago. After years of reflection, the only valuable thing I have drafted from those "other-worldly" sessions was that:

A) The Angelic Conflict does exist.
B) As a result, a conscious (omniscient-omnipresent) God exists.

What would you say you have concluded from your experiences so far?

If you are at liberty to share, what was the objective of this mission that you have accomplished?

BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by BlueMule

 

Interesting. Ive had experiences myself...of the entheogenic magnitude, about one sub-metonic cycle ago. After years of reflection, the only valuable thing I have drafted from those "other-worldly" sessions was that:

A) The Angelic Conflict does exist.
B) As a result, a conscious (omniscient-omnipresent) God exists.

What would you say you have concluded from your experiences so far?

If you are at liberty to share, what was the objective of this mission that you have accomplished?

Thank you for sharing. I agree with your observations. I feel that you have deep wisdom and knowledge and so I don't mind sharing with you in turn.

A) There is most definitely a conflict. I suspect the conflict is archetypal and cyclical. One iteration per cycle. I really hope it ends soon because I am tired of fighting. I have defeated many enemies and I have fallen in battle many times.

B) A God exists but can't be grasped by concepts. Only by love.

I'm not entirely sure what the objective of my mission was. I packed up my life and went on a 3 month pilgrimage across the country. I knew I might not return. I visited sacred places as I went. I think I may have activated them. Or at least, disturbed them. My dreams were coming true as I went. The climax of the pilgrimage was in the desert. I can't say what I found there. But I think it may have involved the precession of the equinox. Hence my interest in this thread.

BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by Utnapisjtim

 

I must apologize for my last spiel. I am a recovering A-Hole, sometimes I eject passive-aggressive garbage.

No problem

With that said, I disagree with the conclusion that the Bible is a mash of sometimes contradictory tradtition.

But it is. But nevermind.

Take Gen 1:14 for example, no where else is there a hint of a lunar calendar in the bible, so why state that the moon was for the Holy Days when the Holy Days werent even instituted intill the Exodus? The answer: The moon is most likely what keeps our axis from shifting further, therefore, it is the moon that keeps the Holy Days in their seasons.

There were quite a few laws in effect around at the time of Adam and Eve. For instance, the new moon celebrations, ritual animal sacrifice, food hygiene, procreation and running the Earth... Plenty of it, it's just not spelled out in the Bible, since these things are mostly based on pre-Biblical traditions. Genesis summarise these traditions and the evolution of religion.

Also, Genesis never stated that earth was created in 6 days, but that it already existed for an undisclosed period of time, then it became desolate and was restored in 6 days. This pre- genesis civilization was angelic. Then Gen 2:4 introduces a summarization of creation to set the stage for the events leading up to the fall of Adam. We know this because Gen 2:4 openly states " These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were accomplished..."

Its when you analyze these aparent inconsistencies that the Bible teaches you the deepest secrets. Its all about learning how to follow the Bible's poetic style. Throw some of them at me and Ill do my best to interpret. All of my discoveries I have presented so far, are the result of my persuit of these "riddles".

Indeed, Genesis is an impressive esoteric source of mystery and language, but it doesn't shake the fact that it is a compilation or a compendium of already existing stories and traditions, only tailored to fit Hebrew monotheism with the story of the early Hebrews interwoven, to make it stand out as one new tradition alltogether. Like I mentioned the Book of Job is probably the oldest book in the Bible, possibly predating the Torah by several centuries, possibly even older. It is a poem:

The language of Job stands out from the other biblical books for its conservative spelling and for its exceptionally large number of words and forms not found elsewhere in the bible. The 12th century Jewish scholar Ibn Ezra concluded that the book must have been written in some other language and translated into Hebrew, and many later scholars down to the 20th century looked for an Aramaic, Arabic or Edomite original

Link to Wikipedia source

reply to post by Utnapisjtim


Do you know of any ancient documentation of the anteduvian laws and lunar rites?

Anything to indicate a 360 day Lunar calendar rather than todays 355 day lunar calendar?

BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by Utnapisjtim

 

Do you know of any ancient documentation of the anteduvian laws and lunar rites?

Anything to indicate a 360 day Lunar calendar rather than todays 355 day lunar calendar?

No, I'm sorry. Nothing other than perhaps old circular Babylonian zodiacs of twelve 30° houses often divided further with three decanes per house and a total of 360 days. However the Babylonians were excellent astronomers and knew about the 18 year lunisolar cycle and they knew the length of the solar year, they even wore wrist watches (look at the wrist of my new avatar and other depictions of Sumerian art)

360 is just so simple to calculate with. They probably used 360 day calendars and then added the correct number of days according to some formula. However I also share your sentiment that the year might actually have been 360 days long at some point. But join me sailing one day (when I have become incredibly rich and actually be able to buy me a boat) and I could show you how using 360 degrees, and 60 minutes and seconds is much more practical for navigation than any other system, let alone 365. 365 is within the limits of an estimate 360, that's why the "prophetic" calendar has 360 days. The French tried to change from 12 hours to 10, complete with 100 minutes and 100 seconds. Didn't work so well.

BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by Utnapisjtim

 

Do you know of any ancient documentation of the anteduvian laws and lunar rites?

Anything to indicate a 360 day Lunar calendar rather than todays 355 day lunar calendar?

According to ancient Egyptian belief, the sungod made it impossible for the sky-goddess Nut to give birth on any of the 360 days of the year. However, Thoth added five and a quarter days to the calendar, thus setting the premesis for the first Egyptian dynasty, Isis and Osiris and the rest of them.