The 8th Sphere

Kantzveldt
Looking at this Theosophical Tradition overall it suggests to me that it is Anti-Catholic disinformation, a promotion of individuation as opposed to the Catholic collective body, which is represented by the white Host bread placed within the Luna.

I was advised by a friend that we needed to address the human end of the "mutually cannibalistic" relationship we have with the Moon. With all that macrobiological talk from G. about the fluids, and the cyclic destruction, and the clairvoyance, we'd managed to make it clear what it is that the Moon extracts from us -- but what do humans get out of it?

He had a good point, and I had no idea how to address it until just now after reading your post.

The monstrance was most often made of silver-gilt or other precious metal, and highly decorated. In the center of the sunburst, the monstrance normally has a small round glass the size of a Host, through which the Blessed Sacrament can be seen. Behind this glass is a round container made of glass and gilded metal, called a luna, which holds the Host securely in place. When not in the monstrance, the Host in its luna is placed in a special standing container, called a standing pyx, in the Tabernacle

If the Moon spun us down a "fluid" of its own, vital in some way to our development, it would be spiritual in nature. The milk of the Moon might give us dreams, or the double-edged gift of introspection, or even the experience of being in the presence of the One through our connection with others.

The sacred food, the nourishment the Soul craves above all else, is kept in the luna.

reply to post by Eidolon23


I'm thinking its a light frequency. That's what the moon gives us.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Eidolon23

 

I'm thinking its a light frequency. That's what the moon gives us.

Mm-hm.

I was reading today about sea critter who have lunar circadian clocks. Apparently, it's partly linked to tidal rhythms, but also linked to fluctuating moonlight.

The change in nocturnal light, determined by the changes in the phases of the Moon, is known to influence daily rhythms in Drosophila and fish, and possibly in humans.

reply to post by Eidolon23



Yes i look at it as a means to joining a collective of Holy Ghosts...of course it is a question of give and take.

What was the moon 'thinking' back in 2010 on the solstice lunar eclipse?

reply to post by Bybyots


What a wonderful endeavor and presentation by two of my favorites. This post ate up my precious sleepy time and left me a wreck today.

Unfortunately, it's termed occult for a very good reason... but switching over one's worldview, at least for awhile, is usually a great thing... provided the switcher can glean enough from the obtuse concepts to even form a worldview.

It occurs to me the enlightenment people experienced while digging a hole for ol' G (no way in hades I'm spelling his name correctly- I'll end up with 'Gurds n' kerchief') is something like "This is hard... why am I digging a pointless hole for some guru-father figure... what is lacking in me... OHHHHH!"

And where is the synopsis for escaping the lunar soul ensnarement? Surely it can't be a 4 semester course load?

But that's on this reader... the OP is beautifully rendered.

Edit: and I can certainly think of worse fates than being, ultimately, "moon food." She's gotta eat, too, right?

A few years ago I had a dream. I was kneeling at my bedroom window looking out into the daytime sky. The moon was there except it was huge, seeming very close. I got a very ominous feeling.
Just then I was infront of it. A section of it opened and the inside was hollow except the walls were lined with what I can only describe as a motherboard. Then in an instant I was back at my window.

Just stopped at mirror mirror so I could say thanks for putting all of this info together. I've been making connections but feel I'm just really scimming the surface. So much food for thought.

Eidolon23

Kantzveldt
Looking at this Theosophical Tradition overall it suggests to me that it is Anti-Catholic disinformation, a promotion of individuation as opposed to the Catholic collective body, which is represented by the white Host bread placed within the Luna.

I was advised by a friend that we needed to address the human end of the "mutually cannibalistic" relationship we have with the Moon. With all that macrobiological talk from G. about the fluids, and the cyclic destruction, and the clairvoyance, we'd managed to make it clear what it is that the Moon extracts from us -- but what do humans get out of it?

He had a good point, and I had no idea how to address it until just now after reading your post.

The monstrance was most often made of silver-gilt or other precious metal, and highly decorated. In the center of the sunburst, the monstrance normally has a small round glass the size of a Host, through which the Blessed Sacrament can be seen. Behind this glass is a round container made of glass and gilded metal, called a luna, which holds the Host securely in place. When not in the monstrance, the Host in its luna is placed in a special standing container, called a standing pyx, in the Tabernacle

If the Moon spun us down a "fluid" of its own, vital in some way to our development, it would be spiritual in nature. The milk of the Moon might give us dreams, or the double-edged gift of introspection, or even the experience of being in the presence of the One through our connection with others.

The sacred food, the nourishment the Soul craves above all else, is kept in the luna.

edit on 3-12-2013 by Eidolon23 because: ∇

Soma

I've been projected to the moon several times, I've seen the "mansions" there. I've been provided nourishment and gifts (in astral form) and in turn I have provided nourishment. Sometimes not by choice.

I've had dreams that come true, visions that come true, and I can hear the Muse talking through myth, art, religion, science, even pop-culture in a deeply intuitive way. My dreams are big and odd to say the least.

I was led on a pilgrimage in 2011 of hundreds of miles to camp in the Arizona desert where I underwent a 24 hour "spiritwalk" with the Peyote spirits. While at the peak of the entheogen experience I performed a ritual uniting the Sun and the Moon in hieros gamos. Incidentally, I think I also reset time and space.

It all started back in 2010 on the solstice lunar eclipse. For several months prior to that eclipse I was in intense study of comparative mysticism texts and art, and in a near constant state of Bhakti yoga. The universal sacred feminine was my devotion. The Great Goddess of Many Names. The Goddess of Complete Being.

Then on the solstice, blue pearls took me beyond the waking state, beyond the dreaming state, and beyond the state of deep dreamless sleep to a state of being that some call "Turiya". I call it the Holy Dark. I was brought to a fully lucid state in the Holy Dark and I marveled at my body of light filled with stars. I marveled as my arm moved in a kind of suspended animation.

There were two blue disks. They were comprised of concentric circles of many blue spheres or pearls. They were flashing in complex patterns to communicate with me. There was also some sort of wave... I can't quite describe it but it enveloped me and came back with me into my body.

When I was returned to my body I was in a state of "rapture" or "kundalini awakening" for several days. I wish I could describe it... it was kinda like being in the womb of the Mother Goddess, like being enlightened in the immovable spot. It was a very odd sensation to have to get used to being in a body again. It eventually wore off but I wasn't alone in my body. I was a vehicle for something that wanted me to go on my pilgrimage. So I did. The Peyote spirits and an odd circle of stones were waiting for me in the desert. I used the stones in my ingestion ritual and space-time ritual... it worked out perfectly.

I think the Moon is involved but the problem is, the anthropomorphic forms that The Powers or archetypes or the Planets take don't wear name-tags, don't introduce themselves and sometimes hide their faces.

I thought maybe the very smart people who are contributing to this thread could shed some light on this. I hope.

KilgoreTrout

Bybyots
Hi KG,

Do you mean by "Islamics" the parts that we mention about the Sufis? Although we added (my emphasis really) the Sufis the point of connection that we meant to emphasize is the Picatrix

Doesn't matter in terms of distinctions, other than we already have an established route of Sufi Mysticism into Europe, by the route I described, via contact with Islamic traders. Picking that up in terms of the Picatrix, it was translated from the Arabic by the Toledo School under the leadership of Alphonso X of Castille, which, importantly, means that it entered into Europe in the vernacular before it was translated into Latin. That gives it a much better chance of transmission ideologically and in terms of it entering into the imaginative consciousness.

Thanks for your reply, KG. I knew that you wouldn't drop the short-hammer like that unless you had a good reason to. So I went to try and find out what it is.

It kind of looks like the Troubadours came charging out of Spain in to the Languedoc with all sorts of "foreign" habits that essentially helped to shape European culture, philosophy and metaphysics as we know them today.

I am really, really fascinated by what the Picatrix may have been doing in the time before it was translated to Latin. I'm sure that I am not telling you anything when I mention the absolutely profound effect that the book had on European culture, science, metaphysics, and all of that. I have understood from past readings about the book, that it may have been only one of the very few books that were available during some parts of the dark ages, but I have to tighten all of that up before I bring it to the thread.

What I would like to try to do here, is make some progress towards making the role of Picatrix in the development of the Moon Mythos more obvious if I can.

I presently can't imagine any other source for the story.

Anyhow, thanks for providing the impetus for further study. I am excited about where this is heading. I very much appreciate the input.

Just for the record, Eidolon23 knew that the Pic was a paper-thin point to be making, she has gone above and beyond to help me out, but ultimately I'm responsible. Fact is that if I had insisted on taking the time to do the research before we launched this boat, it likely never would have made it in to harbour.

I bet I will be able to make a more solid case for the Pic in a day or so.

Terima kasih!



ETA: I thought that these were kind of interesting...

The Sufis and The Cathars

Troubadours were also to some degree influenced by the great Arab poetry, and especially the Sufi poetry, flowing in through Moorish Spain, the trade routes of North Africa, and Palestine and the Crusaders interacted with the Muslim world there. The Beloved of the Troubadours is the same Divine Beloved of the Sufis. When reading Troubadour poetry, as with Sufi poetry, the Beloved -- though she may also be a real person -- should be understood to be the Divine and no other.

www.hopedance.org...

Very complex and heavy thread...I love it.

Thank you both for your time and wisdom.

Something that resonated with me and I dont use the term lightly is one day I was outside after having eaten a fair quantity of lets say special cookies. it was about 2 hours after I had eaten them and I was feeling seriously elevated and had to go outside for some fresh air.

While taking in the night air I happened to gaze up and locked my gaze on the moon. At first I knew what I was looking at since I had sen it my entire life, but due to my previous choice in food hour prior I was seeing the moon in a whole new light (pun intended) there was something visceral about it almost predatory and a cold chill ran up my spine that i couldt explain. Logically I knew it was a large body of rock floating in space but for that moment it felt like I could reach out and grab it in my hand and vice versa that it could reach down and grab on to me.

I admit my prior feelings of claustrophobic of being in the house were quickly disbanded and I retreated to the comfortable surroundings of the mundane. The feeling was so intense 3 years later I still remember it vividly.

Also what of the ufo stories of grays who steal souls that have a moon base on the dark side of the moon??

Kantzveldt
The Moon is innocent and not really a monstrance...

Not a monstrance at all, figuratively or literally, the monstrance is representative of the Sun (in the Roman Church) or the Universal/Supreme power elsewhere in the Orthodox Church, in short the Father. The seperate Luna, or Mother/Vessel, is held within the Monstrance, which in turn contains the host, thus demonstrating the combined influences in the Transmutation. This is very much in keeping with the origin and basis of the Church's ritual practice, and follows on from the same origin-relationship found in the Eucharistic supper itself. Both practices being pre-Christian and syncretically applied.

reply to post by Bybyots


The Troubadours were certainly carriers of the poetic tradition, though of course they developed it, for the tastes of their audience, into the realm of chivaldric romanticism. Which is not to say that that had too much of a detrimental effect on intent and meaning, and it somewhat aided receptivity to mysticism in some circles.

The Toledo School is deserving of attention in terms of the dissemination of Arabic thought without popularist embellishment to the literate, but the Troubadours of course are the carriers of the verbal tradition and as such they are far more pervasive, especially once you have the influence of the Church fathers who sought to remove all 'taint of the infidel' from intellectual and spiritual life. It was a socio-political move, and a hugely detrimental one, generally (in my opinion).

Given what you have posted, I am not going to further intrude. For now. Personal exigesis is important, I learnt that from Dick, but while he and I share commonalities, his, your's, and E23's, is US-centric and I personally feel that anything I add would be distracting to that at this point.

Suffice it to say, the Moon and I are on very good terms

What the two of you produced together, is wonderful and insightful, as well as beautifully written, and I thank you both for sharing it with us here.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout



I was referring there to the general theme of the thread of the moon as a soul sucking monstrosity to be feared, of course the Christian monstrance combines Solar and Lunar symbolism, with the introduction of a third factor in the wine one can have a sense of being eclipsed...

BlueMule

Bybyots
Picatrix refers to the Mansions of The Moon and their beginnings in the Eighth Sphere of fixed stars and attributes a helluva downside of Aries to the entrance to their domain.

As an Aries who is known by the Moon, I am very interested in hearing more about this. Please elaborate.

Hi, BlueMule, thanks for sharing your experience, this is a really good bit:

There were two blue disks. They were comprised of concentric circles of many blue spheres or pearls. They were flashing in complex patterns to communicate with me.

Entheogens (from the Greek entheos, "God within") are associated with the Moon the world over. I can't go into that much, but I think we can illustrate the point by following up with BDBinc on Soma.



Male lunar deities were fashionable for a while in the East, but Soma actually started out as a sort of Hindu Dionysus-- the tutelary deity of an entheogenic plant. The identity of the plant is lost to us; some think it may have been ephedra, and some think it was booze, but most think it was a deliriant. I have good reason to think it was a deliriant combined with a stimulant and steeped in booze, but anyway. After it was forbidden for Brahmins to consume it, Soma found himself parked on the Moon holding a cupful of symbolically charged nectar.

As the blood of animals and the sap of plants, Soma courses through all living things. He is Inspiration to those who seek it, and so is the god of poets. He is also the god of the moon. He is the dwelling place of the venerated dead, as well as the divine cure for evil. The ancient Hindus did not differentiate between these divergent aspects; all were the god Soma.

www.pantheon.org...

Gravity, dreams, and the dead.

P.S. The mirror-heart avatar compliments the Sufis' take on the Moon, and the mule is a lunar beast. Nice.

Kantzveldt
reply to post by KilgoreTrout

 

I was referring there to the general theme of the thread of the moon as a soul sucking monstrosity to be feared, of course the Christian monstrance combines Solar and Lunar symbolism, with the introduction of a third factor in the wine one can have a sense of being eclipsed...

Sorry for the confusion, I wasn't implying otherwise, all I was doing, for the benefit of those interested in the deeper esoterism at play here, was clarifying that the Monstrance and the Luna were two different pieces of iconography, or reliquary, the Monstrance merely used to 'show' or display, the host contained within the Luna at certain times within the liturgical calendar. In terms of the symbolism, in the original sense, rather than the syncretic one, that distinction is very important.

The word monstrance comes from the Latin word monstrare, meaning "to show".[1] In Latin, the monstrance is known as an ostensorium (from ostendere, "to show").

en.wikipedia.org...

Hey Eidolon23, thanks for the info. I hadn't realized that entheogens were so strongly associated with the Moon.

What do you suppose the author of your excerpt means by 'let it burn'?

Eidolon23P.S. The mirror-heart avatar compliments the Sufis' take on the Moon, and the mule is a lunar beast. Nice.

Thanks. I admire Sufi mysticism and I read a lot of Rumi. I didn't know the mule was a lunar beast. Huh.

I think the stars, planets, moons, and black holes possess a level of consciousness indeed the whole universe does. I think they communicate with our unconscious minds through psychic ability, which then gets filtered through to our conscious minds. World myth and religion (as a unit) is the picture-language of that communication. Hence the Perennial Philosophy.

I've been seeing UFOs most of my life. Vallee would call me a "UFO contactee" based on my experiences. I believe the nature of the UFO phenomenon is essentially mystical not technological, biological. I believe that many or most UFOs are some kind of psychic projections from the minds of stars, planets, moons, black holes, even the Earth. The projections seem to take their form from the store house of imagery in our minds... imagery that changes as culture changes.

Eidolon23
Male lunar deities were fashionable for a while in the East:

Around the Pacific the lunar deity is often male, most notably in Japan, but also some, but interestingly not all, of the Polynesian islands. Micronesia too, island to island you find variance. Often in those instances, the Sun and the Moon are brothers, fighting for favour with the Earth mother, and resulting in the scarification of the Moon. What I find particularly of interest is that much depends on weaving, where the realm of weaving is male dominated, the Moon in turn is male, where it is female, likewise. In African culture furthermore, you have male Moon deities, and the intermediary between Earth and the Moon is the 'Moon Spider'...another symbol of weaving, which often serves as a teacher of Moon lore.

Eidolon23
but Soma actually started out as a sort of Hindu Dionysus-- the tutelary deity of an entheogenic plant. The identity of the plant is lost to us; some think it may have been ephedra, and some think it was booze, but most think it was a deliriant. I have good reason to think it was a deliriant combined with a stimulant and steeped in booze, but anyway.

After it was forbidden for Brahmins to consume it, Soma found himself parked on the Moon holding a cupful of symbolically charged nectar.

Outside of ethnobotanical circles, the debate about Soma is much more heated, and though there is some archaeological evidence to support some plant based Somas, that may have been simply for the consumption of the laity. Epiphanius describes practices amongst the Ophite Christians, who called this ritual Synesaktism or Agape where menstrual blood, often mixed with semen was consumed. This, to my mind, in context with the Moon mythology is far more appropriate. And of course, this red/white mixture, religiously, is found in the earliest religious structures relational to the Moon, even the Sufis said their prayers on a rosary of alternating red and white beads and as I mentioned earlier, the Eucharistic supper, in part, the mixing of the wine and the water, is symbolic of the menstrual blood and the semen required in the generation of life.

KilgoreTrout

In African culture furthermore, you have male Moon deities, and the intermediary between Earth and the Moon is the 'Moon Spider'...another symbol of weaving, which often serves as a teacher of Moon lore.

Funny you should say that. Right after the 2010 solstice lunar eclipse, while I was still getting used to being in my human body, Spider Grandmother came and spent some time with me. She taught me a lot.

Eidolon23
I think Blavatsky was probably lying when she attributed it to some secret strain of Vedic tradition;

I was thinking about this, and wondered whether Blavatsky may have been referring to Varuna.

Though he only has about a dozen hymns addressed to him in the Rig Veda, Varuna seems to be one of the most important of the Vedic gods. In pre-Vedic times, he was the supreme lord of the cosmos, the keeper of divine order, the bringer of rain, the enforcer of contracts. He is called omnipotent and omniscient; he is responsible for the sun to move in the sky, for day and night to stay separate, and for the earth to keep its form; he watches the flight of every bird, is present at every gathering, and knows every thought.

His name means "he who covers", and this probably refers to the sky. Varuna is the keeper of the cosmic order, a force called rta. It is rta which keeps everything working as it should, and Varuna's role as the one who governs rta makes him very important indeed. He is very closely linked to the god Mitra. Varuna is one of the Adityas and considered to be an asura, when those beings were still god-like and had not yet degenerated into demons. He is also associated with the moon and Soma, in Soma's incarnation as the drink of the gods. Varuna is seen as a white man in golden armor riding a Makara (a sea monster), holding a noose or lasso made from a snake.

Varuna is the keeper of the celestial waters, those which flow from the openings in the sky in the form of rain. He was worshiped with veneration and a healthy amount of fear, for as an asura Varuna did have his sinister aspects and was known to punish mortals who did not keep their word. He was the cosmic hangman and his usual method of punishment was to capture the offender with his noose. He was also a lord of the dead, a position he shared with Yama, and could confer immortality if he so chose.

In Vedic times, the worship of Varuna fell off as he was supplanted by Indra as king of the gods. One possible reason for this may go back to Indra's most famous exploit. When Vritra stole all the waters of the universe, the waters which Varuna was in charge of, it was Indra who had to fight the demon and get them back. It may have been because of this that Indra was able to supplant the overlordship of Varuna and become lord of the gods himself. Varuna then became god of the oceans and rivers; still important, but with hardly the grandeur he once had. The souls of those who drowned went to him, and he was attended by the nagas.

Varuna faded away with the ascendancy of Shiva and Vishnu. His lofty position may have lived on, however, for he may be the same as the Zoroastrian supreme god Ahura Mazda.

www.pantheon.org...

Later he became associated with the Moon more directly...

Moon: Chandra is the Vedic name for the Moon. Shakti / Parvati are considered the main female deities associated with the Moon. They are the consorts of Shiva. Parvati is said to remember her previous life as Shiva’s wife, Shakti. Parvati translates as, “she who dwells in the mountains”. Such a goddess is an appropriate mate for Shiva, who also likes to dwell in mountainous regions and the fringe of society. Another name and deity associated with the Moon is Soma. Soma is the divine nectar, the sacrificial elixir of the Gods. Soma is pictured as a priestly sage, a powerful god who is a healer of all diseases and a bestower of riches. He is also the father of Mercury (“Out of the Moon, the mind was born”). Parashara states that the main deity of the Moon is Varuna, God of the cosmic waters.

dennisharness.com...

Later art depicts Varuna as a lunar deity, as a yellow man wearing golden armor and holding a noose or lasso made from a snake. He rides the sea creature Makara.

en.wikipedia.org...

As chief of the Adityas, Varuna has aspects of a solar deity though, when opposed to Mitra, he is rather associated to the night, and Mitra to the daylight. As the most prominent Asura, however, he is more concerned with moral and societal affairs than a deification of nature. Together with Mitra – originally oath personified — being master of rta, he is the supreme keeper of order and god of the law.

Varuna and Mitra are the gods of the oath, often twinned or identified as Mitra-Varuna (a dvandva compound). Varuna is also twinned with Indra in the Rigveda, as Indra-Varuna.

in.answers.yahoo.com...

"Wise are the generations through greatness
Of him who propped the two wide worlds asunder;
Pushed forth the great and lofty vault of heaven,
The day-star, too; and spread the earth out broadly.

With mine own self I meditate this question:
‘When shall I have with Varuna communion?
What gift of mine will he enjoy unangered?
When shall I happy-hearted see his mercy?’

Wishing to know my sin I make enquiry,
I go about to all the wise and ask them;
One and the selfsame thing even sages tell me:
‘Varuna have with thee hot indignation.’

O Varuna, what was my chief transgression,
That thou wouldst slay a friend who sings thy praises?
Tell me, god undeceived and sovereign, guiltless
Would I appease thee then with adoration?

Set us free from the misdeeds of our fathers,
From those that we ourselves have perpetrated;
Like cattle-thief, O King, like calf rope-fastened,
So set us free Vasistha from the fetter.

‘Twas not mine own will, Varuna, ‘twas delusion,
Drink, anger, dice, or lack of thought, that caused it;
An older man has led astray a younger,
Not even sleep protects a man from evil.

O let me like a slave, when once made sinless,
Serve him the merciful, erewhile the angry.
The noble god has made the thoughtless thoughtful;
He speeds the wise to riches, he a wiser.

May this my praise-song, Varuna, sovereign ruler,
Reach unto thee and make thy heart complaisant;
May it be well with us in rest and labour.
Do ye protect us ever more with blessings."

...

"I do not wish, King Varuna,
To go down to the home of clay;
Be gracious, mighty lord, and spare.

Since like one tottering I move,
O slinger, like inflated skin,
Be gracious, mighty lord, and spare.

Somehow through weakness of my will
I went astray, O shining one;
Be gracious, mighty lord, and spare.

Thirst found thy singer even when
He in the midst of waters stood;
Be gracious, mighty lord, and spare.

Whatever wrong we men commit against the race
Of heavenly ones, O Varuna, whatever law
Of thine we here have broken through our thoughtlessness,
For that transgression do not punish us, O god. "

Hymns to Varuna – Sacred Books of the World, A C Bouquet
Pages 86-7